2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
51 members (7sheji, bcalvanese, Aylin, Barly, brdwyguy, accordeur, 36251, Bostonmoores, 20/20 Vision, Adam Reynolds, 5 invisible), 1,351 guests, and 318 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
I want to compile a list of questions for my intermediate students to self-analysis their Romantic pieces at home. The following list is what I can think of right now about how to analysis a Romantic piece. I wonder if I missed something very important. Please help to add on if you see any mistakes or incomplete. Thank you!



To analysis a Romantic (not Classical’s sonata or Baroque’s Fugue) Piece:
Key (A Major, g minor etc…)
Form (Binary or Ternary)
Texture (Polyphonic or homophonic)
Write in the chords in roman numerals (includes secondary dominant and seventh chords) from the beginning to the end.
Mark all cadences (authentic, plagal etc…..)
Notice any repetition, sequence, imitation, augmentation, canon etc…..
Find out the non-harmonic tone such as neighbor tone, passing tone etc…..
Notice if there is any modulation or not. If there is a modulation, mark down if it is parallel or relative key or dominant or subdominant…..
Talk about all the signs and terms make sure the students understand the Italian terms.
Notice all ornamentation and how to play the ornamentations (trill, mordent etc….)
Notice any scales structure, any argeggios structure and talk about the correct fingering
Briefly talk about composer’s life style
Talk about how to use the pedal (if the music is not marked with pedal signs) and the reasons behind it.


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,651
O
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,651
Perhaps include a question about the character and mood of the piece. Maybe look at the title...define what the title means if there is any question about it...and describe what the piece is about. Or create a story about what seems to be happening in the piece.

I have not taught intermediate, except for early intermediate, so you may take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I have recently bought Celebration Series Perspectives Bk 2 with the workbook. (Bk 3 was not readily available in the music store this week or I would have gotten it too.) I think the student workbooks are VERY good, with questions tailored to each individual piece. Nice addition of depth to understanding each piece. But it did not have a section of Romantic period pieces. Maybe some higher levels do. Worth looking into.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
Many of these questions are too hard for intermediate students. Non-chord tones are advanced.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,702
M
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,702
Originally Posted by Ann in Kentucky
But it did not have a section of Romantic period pieces. Maybe some higher levels do. Worth looking into.


The series definitely gets into romantic era repertoire as it progresses. Most of that repertoire is too difficult for the lower levels. You'll find that explanation in the handbook, I believe.


B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Many of these questions are too hard for intermediate students. Non-chord tones are advanced.


My thought was that if a teacher is assigning these kinds of questions, s/he would first have taught the concepts. If they haven't been, maybe that would be a question coming before this one? How to get those concepts across?

I started in the RCM program which has a theory component. I'm at the tail end of what would lead to the Harmony I exam and a lot of the elements in the list (almost all of them) are in there. HOWEVER, material for analysis has been carefully selected so we're not thrown any curve balls, and it is all Baroque form.

I'm interested in how different teachers do this. Do you teach the formal theory like in the RCM syllabus and then apply it to pieces your students are learning? Do you slowly introduce such concepts through the pieces by pointing out, for example, how the middle section is like the outer sections but modulated (for ABA)?

I'm wondering, for this kind of analysis, if the teacher would analyze the piece first, find a few significant things, and then tailor the questions to those few things? Would it be a take-home assignment, or would you first go over the piece in the lesson (and maybe then give that kind of assignment).

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,651
O
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,651
Originally Posted by Minniemay
Originally Posted by Ann in Kentucky
But it did not have a section of Romantic period pieces. Maybe some higher levels do. Worth looking into.


The series definitely gets into romantic era repertoire as it progresses. Most of that repertoire is too difficult for the lower levels. You'll find that explanation in the handbook, I believe.


Minniemay, thanks for your post. It was just the prod I needed to go ahead and order a handbook.

Intermediate students learning to analyze music need far more than a checklist IMO. They need to be taught each concept and be given pertinent info about each piece. Self study with only a checklist would waste time IMO, especially when you can use good materials available these days. Just my 2 cents.

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18
D
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
D
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18
A checklist is a great idea! I use quite an in-depth checklist for more advanced repertoire but it is tricky to get intermediate students to analyse scores with any great enthusiasm or skill...

My first step with most romantic works is to find the phrases. Find them, mark them and work out how shape them. Find the peak of each phrase. Coloured pencils/highlighters are great. Then add rubato? How much?

I find out if I start this way other questions get answered during the process; for example, you can't really know how much rubato is appropriate unless you know something about the composer and the period. Overall structure becomes apparent as well. And the piece looks an awful lot less scary if you can see that it only consists of a few phrases rather than a mess of black on the page!

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
I like the idea of marking phrase and see how they shape. Thank you Dan. I totally forget about rubato! I am pretty sure that student will be aware of the melody contour after they mark the phrase. They will also notice the cadence at the ending of the phrase. I also like the idea of character and mood of the piece. Since it is a romantic piece, it should have an “obvious” character and mood. Thank you Ann, your input reminds me about Schumann’s “Florestan” and “Eusebius” two contrasting characters!

When I create my list, I include the concepts that most students already learn. It will be silly to test the students with the concepts that they had not learn. Students will be given the list and self-analysis at home then we will discuss about it during lesson. The reason that I am doing this way is to create independency among students before I step in to check the final answers.

“I'm interested in how different teachers do this. Do you teach the formal theory like in the RCM syllabus and then apply it to pieces your students are learning? Do you slowly introduce such concepts through the pieces by pointing out, for example, how the middle section is like the outer sections but modulated (for ABA)?”

In my studio, students have their theory book that they learn the concepts step by step. The reasons that I like to create a list is because that after my students finish their theory book for their level, they do not understand how to apply the concepts in their pieces. This semester, I am giving each intermediate and advance student a special Romantic Piece that we learn how to play and at the same time, I like them to analysis and apply the theory concepts that they learn in theory book into the playing pieces. I am thinking to have an “Analysis Party” at the end of the semester where I can gather a few students in a group and they will play their pieces to each other and also “talk” about the pieces with each other.

I am not familiar with Celebration Series Perspectives Bk 2 with the workbook. I have seen Celebration Series Perspective repertoire book in music stores, but I have not seen the workbook before. The repertoire book as 11 levels (Primer to 10), is the workbook the same as repertoire book? Is the workbook talk about the pieces in repertoire book? Ann, can you elaborate a little bit?

Thank you everyone for your generous input so far.


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
ezpiano.org, do you have your students apply their theory concepts to their pieces as they learn each concept? Or do you wait until the theory book is finished and then ask them to apply all the concepts, for the first time?


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Every time I teach, I will ask questions such as repetition or sequence, the key, cadence etc towards the students. So, yes, I apply their theory concepts into their pieces as they learn the pieces. However, I am using an “un-organize” way of teaching in the way because sometimes I will forget to ask the important concepts. Part of the reason that I like to compile a list is to help myself too when I teach the piece to ask students about each concept.
During lesson when I ask my students about the concept, students are not independent. If I gave them a check list as a guide, and ask them to self-analysis at home, they can learn to be independent. That is why I like to have a list to give to students to practice independency at home. Eventually, I like to train them to talk about a piece without using this list! At that moment, I will be very proud of them because they are real independent now!



Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 24
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 24
The Celebration Series has a workbook to accompany levels 1 to 8. They devote several pages to each of the pieces in the repertoire book. There is a brief biography of the composer, and then a series of exercises exploring issues that come up in the piece.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Thank you Alisong, I will check out the workbook.


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,651
O
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,651
ezpiano,

I just saw your post and see the question was answered. When I had only looked at Celebration Perspectives repertoire books, I was not so impressed since there are a lot of nice graded repertoire series. But then I bought a "student workbook" and it blew my socks off!! They're wonderful! And students can work through them at home.

The guidance kids will get from the workbooks is valuable. Even working through the Bk 2 workbook has influenced my thinking. Today a kid played "The Elf's Silver Hammer". I wanted to hear her increase the tempo, so I said that I wanted to hear the elf hammering more quickly "Tap Tap Tap Tap".

It was after spending time with the workbook, that got me to think of it...taking the time to consider the title...and what is being represented in the piece. Then I was hearing repeated quarter notes as the elf hammering. Simple, but an improvement over playing a piece with good timing, correct notes and reasonable phrasing (without the imagery).

In other words, what your students learn in the series will carry over to their other pieces, helping a great deal.

Last edited by Ann in Kentucky; 10/24/11 08:49 PM.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 73
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 73
What a great post! I think it's a great idea to have a check list for intermediate students to look at when they begin a piece. I have a checklist in my head and prompt them but students should be learning to be more independent and won't always remember to look for these things. Sometimes I forget some of these things and should have a written checklist for myself!

I have used the Celebration Series Repertoire and recently bought prep through level 4 workbooks to see what they were like. What great teaching tools!

They're a bit expensive for my students so I'm going to use the earlier levels as guides during lessons (and not have students buy their own - apologies to the publisher). I haven't ordered levels 5 - 8 yet but am about to thanks to this post.

I just copied and pasted all your ideas and will add my own twist to create my Romantic Checklist today - any ideas for a catchy title?


Independent Piano Teacher
Member MTNA, NHMTA

Moderated by  platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,189
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.