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#1776548 - 10/24/11 08:38 PM I blew up my MP10, what should I do?
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Over here in Australia, everything is bloody expensive (compared to U.S. prices), especially the Kawai MP10.
So naturally i bought one from the U.S. through Musiciansfriend.com (used).
It arrived yesterday, i set it up, and it would not power on.
After a couple of tries using different IEC leads and different wall outlets, the MP10's power inlet sparked, and i blew a fuse on one side of the apartment.
It took me a few minutes to realise that it had different power requirements to the Australian power output standard. On its power label it reads "120V / 60Hz", while the AU power ports output 240V / 50Hz.
I removed the AC inlet from the back and saw that one out of three connections is now black (refer to pictures).

So! I am basically asking this...
Can i get this beauty back up and running, and how would i go about doing that? Or have i just made a very expensive mistake... frown
I have been reading these forums for years, so i know that there are some very knowledgable people on her and i really appreciate your time.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/mp10powerpoop1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/mp10powerpoop2.jpg/

Cheers


Edited by Jdiggity1 (10/25/11 01:03 AM)
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1776555 - 10/24/11 08:45 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
I hope you've not fried the piano.
If so ... off to the repair shop.
If not you'll need a transformer that provides 120 VAC from your native 240 VAC.

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#1776562 - 10/24/11 08:58 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
If you are lucky the damage is confined to what is is the photo. Those IEC inlets are a standard part. They all are the same size and cost about $2 (here) Or you can normally salvage an EIC socket from some junk electronics that is being tossed out. The sockets mostly interchange. But mmaybe it is just the wire that is burned? hard to see in the photo

But I'm worried because it looks like it got hot and the plastic melted. It is a law of physics that current flows in a loop. So all that current whent in one place then through "something" and then out. The piano's power supply may not be in the best shape after this.

What you should have done and what you will need is a step down transformers that converts you 240V power to 120V. THese transformers are rated for "VA" or Watts or amps and you want one with a rating about 2X what the data place on the back of the piano says so as to have a safety margin. These transformers are symetric in theat that convert US 120V power to 240V and 240V to 120V. I say to check the VA rating because they also sell very light duty tranformers for electric razors and the like. Those are tiny.

They are simple to use. you plug it into the wall and there is a US type plug and yo plug the piano into that.

But there is a reasonable chance the damage goes deeper. It is hard to know because we can't see what you didn't photograph. I'd check out the power supply carefully.

One more thing, not to be rude, but if you did not know abut 240V vs. 120V power maybe you are not the one to be fixing this and looking for further damage.


Edited by ChrisA (10/24/11 09:04 PM)

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#1776577 - 10/24/11 09:30 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8374
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Jdiggity1
Can i get this beauty back up and running, and how would i go about doing that?


Jdiggity, contact your local Kawai dealer, explaining the situation in full, and ask if the instrument can be repaired.

By the way, given that this isn't actually an issue with the instrument itself, shouldn't the thread topic be more along the lines of "I blew up my MP10, what I should I do?"?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1776598 - 10/24/11 10:14 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4264
Loc: Northern NJ
I think it's toast.
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The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1776607 - 10/24/11 10:26 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
The worst part is that a piano made for sale in the US will likely have no warranty in Oz.

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#1776674 - 10/25/11 01:04 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Kawai James]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Thanks James, i changed the topic title accordingly.
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1776679 - 10/25/11 01:11 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Thanks for the quick replies everyone. My "local" Kawai tech is located too far away for me to get the board to him, so i have an electrician coming around tomorrow morning to check out the damage.

Is this what i need?
http://dicksmith.com.au/product/M1151/240v-to-115v-step-down-transformer-65va

I read somewhere that it is the frequency (50Hz) that can do damage. So would i somehow need to convert that aswell? Those solutions seem very pricey...

Thanks again guys
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1776681 - 10/25/11 01:21 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
That's the right idea. The MP10 manual says it consumes 25 watts. The transformer you referred to can handle 65 watts. Sounds good.

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#1776683 - 10/25/11 01:24 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: ChrisA]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Originally Posted By: ChrisA

One more thing, not to be rude, but if you did not know abut 240V vs. 120V power maybe you are not the one to be fixing this and looking for further damage.


I completely agree. I am well aware of the voltage differences (i have blown up things before... crazy ) but i was so excited to finally own a (more than) decent DP i plugged her in as soon as i could, and once i heard the pop and saw the sparks, i realised what i had done, and died inside.
Live and learn i guess.
And boy have I been learning a lot lately!
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1776686 - 10/25/11 01:28 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8374
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thanks.

And again, sorry for your loss, however there's not a great deal I can recommend in this situation.

I hope there's a positive outcome in the end.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1776826 - 10/25/11 10:40 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
If you haven't fried everything, you may want to contact Kawai and purchase the correct power supply, so that can be installed in the piano in place of the destroyed US version, rather than spending money on a converter. It would also be worth talking to Kawai to find out what circuit protection is built-in; with luck, there may be a fuse somewhere. However, you're going to need someone knowledgeable to do the work.

If the worst comes to the worst, you'll need to replace the main board as well. That should still be less expensive than buying a whole new MP10!

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#1776827 - 10/25/11 10:45 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
On a side note, I'm a little surprised that a top-end stage piano, like the MP10, does not have either a switchable or universal power supply. Anything designed for touring with bands should be capable of working in any country, IMO.

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#1776861 - 10/25/11 11:38 AM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
Dave Horne Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
There are internal fuses that should have done their job to protect the innards of that keyboard. I would think a repair person, not necessarily one affiliated with Kawai, should be able to make an assessment and help you out.

Keep everyone posted ... and let this be a lesson for anyone who buys electronic products from another country - read the label for voltage requirements.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1776915 - 10/25/11 01:08 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Dave Horne]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
and let this be a lesson for anyone who buys electronic products from another country - read the label for voltage requirements.


Belatedly, I have just read the labels on my boards.

The Numa Piano and Organ both have internal power supplies rated at 100v-240v 50-60hz.

The Roland FP-4 and FP-7F both have external power supplies rated at 100v-240v 50-60hz.

The Kurzweil SP4-7 has an external power supply rated at 100v-240v 50-60hz.

The Akai Miniak has an external supply rated at 120v 60hz.

The Kawai MP6 has an internal power supply rated at 120v 60hz

External power supplies are easy to swap, if you find yourself in a different voltage area; internal supplies have no such flexibility. It might be an area Kawai could look at for their pro boards, as I doubt it would add to the cost.

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#1776970 - 10/25/11 03:07 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Just out of curiosity, and not to make you feel bad, how did you plug this in? I thought Australia has different plugs than the US. Do aussie power cords have the same female side as US cords?

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#1776973 - 10/25/11 03:13 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
The female end of most power cords is the same worldwide. It's the male end that does (and must) differ.

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#1776975 - 10/25/11 03:19 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: MacMacMac]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3075
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
The worst part is that a piano made for sale in the US will likely have no warranty in Oz.

...not that plugging it into the wrong voltage would be covered under warranty anyway. (For that matter, used instruments are rarely covered for anything anywhere.)

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#1777013 - 10/25/11 04:32 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: gvfarns]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Just out of curiosity, and not to make you feel bad, how did you plug this in? I thought Australia has different plugs than the US. Do aussie power cords have the same female side as US cords?


The female end is the same, but i needed an adapter for the male end. However i also had spare IEC leads that i used also. It was the lead that came with the MP10 that i used when the sparks flew. I didn't realise either that different IEC leads could carry different voltages? i.e. my AU leads say "240V" in very tiny writing on the female end, while the US lead says "120V". So that makes me even more confused as to why the "120V" lead did the damage.

Anyway, i have an electrician coming over in about an hour, so i will report after that.
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1777018 - 10/25/11 04:34 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: voxpops]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Originally Posted By: voxpops
On a side note, I'm a little surprised that a top-end stage piano, like the MP10, does not have either a switchable or universal power supply. Anything designed for touring with bands should be capable of working in any country, IMO.


I totally agree, and i guess i was just ignorant for assuming that when i received it. I think i read that the US boards are the only one without that flexibility. The rest are 120-240V 50 ~ 60Hz. I think.
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1777038 - 10/25/11 05:07 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: MacMacMac]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
The worst part is that a piano made for sale in the US will likely have no warranty in Oz.


This is a used piano. So there is no warranty. But in any case plugging it into a 240V outlet would void any warranty.

The flip side is that in the worst case the internal power supply needs to be replaced which is easy for any repair tech to do. The best and not completely unlikely case is that the breaker blew before any real damage was done. The melted platic in the photos might have zero effect on performance

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#1777044 - 10/25/11 05:15 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3329
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Jdiggity1
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Just out of curiosity, and not to make you feel bad, how did you plug this in? I thought Australia has different plugs than the US. Do aussie power cords have the same female side as US cords?


The female end is the same, but i needed an adapter for the male end. However i also had spare IEC leads that i used also. It was the lead that came with the MP10 that i used when the sparks flew. I didn't realise either that different IEC leads could carry different voltages? i.e. my AU leads say "240V" in very tiny writing on the female end, while the US lead says "120V". So that makes me even more confused as to why the "120V" lead did the damage.

Anyway, i have an electrician coming over in about an hour, so i will report after that.


Sounds like you need a crash course in electronics!

The lead itself doesn't determine the voltage. It wouldn't matter what lead you used, if you plug it into a 240V outlet, it will overload the MP-10. I would hope that there are some protections inside the MP-10 that prevent total destruction of the electronics. It may not be as bad as first thought. Having said that, if there was a fuse, it should have prevented the melting/scorching of the power connector. You should be prepared for any outcome.

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#1777045 - 10/25/11 05:17 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
Dave Horne Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Japan is 100 VAC, half of the country is 50 hz and the other half 60 hz. I bought a keyboard while in Japan 30+ years ago and it had an external power supply which made it an easy task for me to convert. (It was a Yamaha PF12 which was not sold in the US. Yamaha only exported the PF10 and PF15 to the US.)

Perhaps someone can explain why are there so many different standards.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1777051 - 10/25/11 05:27 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Jdiggity1
... I didn't realise either that different IEC leads could carry different voltages? i.e. my AU leads say "240V" in very tiny writing on the female end, while the US lead says "120V". So that makes me even more confused as to why the "120V" lead did the damage.


Not surprising at all. The power cord is just a length of wire. There is no magic inside. What ever voltage you put into one end will be present on the other end. The voltage on the cord tells you the volts to expect if you plug it into the outlet that it fits. As I said it is just wire.

It's OK to not know anything about electric power, fewer people know about music but this lets' us all know you are not the guy to fix it. This is about as basic as what my son discovered when he finally took his first music class in school. He comes home saying that this is going to be easier than he thought because there really aren't hundreds of different notes, they only go up to "G" and then it repeats. He don't know that before. I hate to say it but this power cord thing is on that same level. Find a tech and let him fix it.

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#1777070 - 10/25/11 05:54 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: ChrisA]
Dave Horne Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
It's OK to not know anything about electric power ...

I disagree. I think kids should be taught some basics in school in addition to the three R's - how to hang a picture on the wall, how to change the oil in your car, how to change fuses or flip circuit breakers (along with some basic theory) ... and so on.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1777077 - 10/25/11 06:08 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3666
Loc: North Carolina
Dave: True, they should. But it doesn't happen. frown
And they should also be taught basic economics. But they don't get that, either. frown

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#1777092 - 10/25/11 06:29 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 20746
Loc: Oakland
People should know what not to do, like not changing fuses or flipping circuit breakers until they understand what the problem is and have corrected it.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#1777100 - 10/25/11 06:36 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Update: There is no visible damage inside the board, but a fuse needs to be replaced.

more to come...
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1777127 - 10/25/11 07:30 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
IT IS... ALIVE!!!

I blew a fuse the very first time i plugged it in. The sparks however, was my silly fault. I had the AC inlet hanging out of the piano at the time, and i believe that the IEC pin connected with the piano's metal frame, causing sparks.

I now have a 240V compatible MP10 thanks to a simple soldering job.

Thanks guys for your input(s), and i will be sure to take a short course in electronics.
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1777135 - 10/25/11 07:36 PM Re: MP10 power issue [Re: Jdiggity1]
voxpops Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 2910
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Jdiggity1
I now have a 240V compatible MP10 thanks to a simple soldering job.


Congratulations!

May I ask what you soldered? Is the internal power supply actually multi-voltage capable if reconfigured?

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