A year ago I got an Essex EUP-123PE upright for around 6000 Euro, actually, it was a leasing formula, so I am still paying for it. A couple of days ago I had a tech visit for the tuning. It was a tech from another dealership of whom I heard very good references. I have invited him because a tuner form my dealer was not up to my liking. As soon as the guy saw the instrument and inquired about its price he started saying that this is Chinese instrument and it worth no more than 3000 Euro and it had nothing to do with Steinway and I should not expect much from it and so on. During the tuning he went on complaining that it was impossible to tune perfectly due to bad quality of stings. Indeed, he demonstrated a couple of strings that were producing beats on their own. Finally, when he had finished, he said that he did his best but the really fine tuning was impossible because it was a Chinese piano of a poor quality. He also remarked a bad action of the piano.

Needless to say, I felt really bad about all this and started arguing that the piano wasn’t that bad after all and I had also tried a Kawai K3 and actually didn’t like it. He argued back that Kawai was not that good and I should try Yamaha U1 (he deals Yamaha among others). On my remark that U1 is 1.5 times more expensive he said that now they are giving discounts and that I can get one at around 7000 Euro.

Out of curiosity I went to that dealership and tried their U1. I was surprised how much I didn’t like it! First of all, the bass was really flat and shallow as compared to the deep pounding bass of the Essex. Overall tone was not really to my liking. BTW, I could hear a lot of beats but, of course, it was not clear whether they were coming from bad tuning or bad strings. What the action concerns, I have found it a bit lighter and easier to play on U1 but the responsiveness of the action was clearly better on the Essex, where I was certainly able to get a wider dynamic range.

To conclude, I was absolutely unimpressed by U1 no matter how hard I tried to like it. Now, U1 has been around for many years and deserved a reputation of a really reliable and sturdy working horse, which is not the case for the Essex. I do not know; maybe the build quality of U1 is indeed better and on a long run it will stay longer in a good condition as compared to Essex. But piano is not a household appliance or a car, one need something beyond just the reliability. And that I couldn’t find in U1

I am writing all this because U1 is one of the most popular and recommended instruments in its price category even on this forum but I just don’t understand why.

P.S. Just recalled that the sustain of the U1 was considerably shorter as compared to the Essex

Maybe the U1 was very bad example of one.

You really have a BS-ing tuner. Blasting Essex, and saying you can't tune them properly because of low quality strings. BLEAH!. Get another tuner, PLEASE!!

He enquired about the price? Really, that's one dodgy guy.

The Essex piano is a completely different instrument from the Yamaha, as the sound and sustain show.

If like the instrument, then that's no problem. It's all good!

I've played nice essex's and nice U1's. Both are nice, in their own ways.

Could it be the specific one you played is poorly maintained/voiced?

I've personally got a Yamaha U2, and have played on some U1's before. They generally have seemed to me like good pianos. I'm no expert in the field though.

How awful to have a tradesman into your home to perform a service and have him badmouth your belongings the whole time. This person is a wretch and you'd be crazy to do business with him ever again. People like that are not critiquing your piano, they are at best unethically trolling for business and at worst seeking a feeling of superiority by denigrating others. Ugly ugly ugly.

No,no,no! I am not going to use his services anymore! On the other hand, he seemingly has a reputation of a good tech and he has allegedly had a training at the Steinway factory in Hamburg.

I agree with Tom, there are bad examples of all makes and models of pianos...

I once played a Steinway grand at the college I was attending and was unimpressed... couldn’t for the life of me figure out what all the hoop-la-la was about. Knowing what I know about pianos now, I’m convinced it (the Steinway) had most likely not been serviced and cared for properly.

And, it is possible that, based on what the tech told you about your own piano, on top of your pre-perception notions and high expectations of the U1, you were sorely disappointed.

I’m sure there are many satisfied Essex owners as well as U1 owners.

All the best,

Rick

Yes, indeed, now I think my expectations were just too high...

You need to fire that guy. My girlfriend has an Essex EUP-111. It's a good piano. The action is not as good as the action on my Kawai K-2, but the tone is good. Good bass and sustain, probably because of the tapered soundboard. My technician takes care of the Essex, and she thinks it is settling in nicely. At each tuning she does fiddle with the action a bit, though.

I like Bach on the Kawai, but Chopin sounds better on the Essex.

I think that tech is just trying to sell a piano.

That could be true. Sometimes strings do have "false beats" and even when properly tuned will sound out of tune. I believe that it is proper for a tech to point out these sorts of things to the owner. But blasting them, saying they should have bought something else and "Oh, by the way, I have a real nice piano I'll sell you"................ quite shady indeed.

Your disappointment about the Yamaha U1 could also be related to the test environment.

I understand you were comparing the sound of your Essex at home with what you heard of the U1 in the dealer's showroom?

So actually it is not a side by side comparison and we know dealer showroom floor are often accoustically sub-optimal; making a decision in that way is always tricky.

Btw stange behaviousr of that tech.

schwammerl.

Very true. See if you know anyone with a U1 at home and go visit them. The U1 is really quite alright and sturdy.

Tuners like the one you describe make the whole piano industry look bad. I suggest you explain your experience to the dealer and that you have no intentions of ever doing business with them again.

Redkat,

Your thread title suggests dissatisfaction. I would think that despite the tuner's opinions, you have reason to feel satisfied in that your choice was confirmed. If the tuner gave you doubts about the Essex, you have more more than enough reason to dismiss them as anti-Chines piano bias (plenty of that around) and motivation to sell you something else (plenty of that around as well).

Let's put aside the tuner and just consider your statement that the piano needs to be more than a household appliance or a car.

In a conversation I've been having with another member here through PM's, he commented to me that a U-1 is not an emotionally rewarding piano. I think that's a fair description if.....

the player is an adult with developed musical taste and the player's taste tends toward classical lit from the romantic period or toward emotionally charged pop ballads, gospel music, or similar.

Now, should that mature player also be accustomed to listening to recordings of the music that he wishes to learn and to recorded perofrmances of that music which he admires and wants to emulate, the U-1 will not transport him into that realm. Such recordings are invariably on concert instruments and usually those instruments have lots pf available color throughout the dynamic range. In addition the recorded sound will have been enhanced by post-processing. A U-1 will not supply even a facsimile of the bass on a concert grand and it is certainly true that it does not have the sustain of many other pianos, a sustain which can serve to create a background for a pianist to feel he is making a profound emotional musical statement.

However, for the learner who approaches whatever lit he is learning without a preconception of how it should sound, how he wants it to sound, or how great artists have played it, and simply wants to get that lit down so that he can play it competently without effort, the U-1 is a very fine appliance. It will not provide him bass thrills on demand, place all his strokes into a sustained background, and give him a ready-made exquisite tone that in itself with no effort from him can melt his keystrokes into poetry. Actually, it will give him nothing more than what he puts into it himself. But it will keep him on a straight and narrow path to becoming a highly competent player who can apply the playing skills learned from it to virtually any other instrument.

For some, especially those who feel that piano playing is more craft than artistry, that is enough. For others, who feel that playing the keys is artistry in itself, it is not enough,.

BTW, the tuner-wheeler-dealer's special price on a new U-1 is not special at all, and his reported behavior is insulting. If you think he does good work, impress on him that you are not hiring him for an opinion or appraisal of your piano, and that you want nothing more from him that the best service he can provide for your piano.

"...Tuners like the one you describe make the whole piano industry look bad. I suggest you explain your experience to the dealer and that you have no intentions of ever doing business with them again."

That, and/or if he's a Steinway school grad, you might send a civil note to Steinway, recounting your dismay at hearing your piano dissed in your own home, by a guy to whom you were paying money for his professional services. Or maybe it's out of your system by now, and you can just let it go. He is digging his grave with his own tongue (professionally), and may not need any help from you.

Anyway, you like your own piano better than the other ones you tried, and you bought what you liked, and that's the way it ought to be.

On our Tuner/Tech forum, I remember a discussion about techs servicing a variety of pianos. A few said they wouldn't touch certain models with a barge pole, and I thought that was ok if that's how they feel. Your new Essex is a long way from the bottom of the piano barrel! But the tech with the last (and best) word said that he would do his best for each customer, within what was possible, respecting the wishes, instructions, and price constraints that each customer requested. I have a lot of respect for this professional and respectful attitude. This is the kind of tech I would look for next time, in your place. Good luck with it.

Few weeks ago I tried some new Essex uprights, they were actually very nice pianos.Beautiful warm, round sound - nothing from what I remembered only few years ago.



Make sure this didn't endanger the warranty for your piano. Some warranties explicitly state that service must be provided by original dealer. Always give original dealer first crack - it's not only a courtesy but makes perfect sense.

Reason being is that a dealer has a vested interest to make your piano sound as good as possible, an outside tech [often..] does *not*. If this guy works for or subcontracts from another dealer, badmouthing others may just be one of part time hobbies...

Norbert

Thank you all for your feedback and valuable suggestions. In any case, I am not going to employ this guy's services anymore.
turandot, thank you for your excellent (like always) post. I cannot rate myself as an advanced piano player but I grew up playing violin and had also piano lessons, so I do have a developed musical taste and, indeed, romantic period is my favorite. In light of this the U1 felt so uninspiring...

When I was buying a new piano last year I tried an Essex 123, a Yamaha U1 and a Kawai K3 (lots of other pianos too but I mention these three because they are similar pianos in many ways). I almost couldn't choose between the Essex and the Kawai (from my signature you'll see I did choose the K3); the Yamaha U1 was - to me - a very distant third.

But we all have different tastes.

In any case, that tuner is an idiot - he badmouthed the Essex as much as the Steinway showroom badmouthed their competition. That's a large reason why I didn't buy the Essex and I doubt you will be hiring that tuner again!!!

We all have different tastes.... THAT is the best statement to make in this situation. Realize that many times what one person describes as a negative could be seen by another as a positive.

False beats = negative
Complex tonal envelope = positive

Around here there are LOTS of Baldwin uprights - the school sized models. Many technicians HATE to tune them, but I've heard from many players that they really, really like these particular instruments...

Many technicians prefer to tune Yamahas because they tend to be easy to hear what they are listening for. This type of listening has little to do with musical listening.

If you like your piano, find a tech that can bring out the music for you and keep the tone just where you like it!

Ron Koval

Pianos are all different and they all tune differently too. Even among the same brands. On the other hand, tuners are all different too as is the pricing between them..

I've found over the years that dealer techs almost always, favor the piano their dealer sells. If they work on the other dealers pianos, many times, they condemn them, hoping for an eventual piano sale. After all, you did go into the other store and try the U1....

Now on the other hand, if that person were to say, in 5 years, change dealerships working instead for the opposing dealer, then all of a sudden, the piano they were once taunting as being the best piano now, 5 years later, suddenly has just became the worst piano.

I say, always go with an independent tech that is not working for or beholden to ANY dealership. That, is your safest bet.

We have a couple people like that here too that do the same thing. They are just full of a lot of B.S. They are great talkers, great salesman and they frequently condemn pianos that are otherwise, just fine for the sake of a "sale." I can't stand that. It's extremely dishonest in my opinion. It's good that you dropped that "tooner."

I had a pair of black dress shoes that I liked but the soles got worn out so I brought them to a cobbler. The first thing the guy did when I laid them on the counter was he picked one of the shoes up and said "wow, these are really nice, very well made". Needless to say, I had no qualm spending $35 to get them resoled even though I only paid $60 for them in the first place!

Cadillackid, did you ever work for Keyboard Concepts?

Additionally they also are insulting, in that, "do you think I am really that stupid to believe that?" It certainly reveals their level of intelligence and knowledge.

My next steps are usually out the door.

There's always going be some kind "I wasn't impressed story" like the old "I've never heard a piano that sounds as good as my Acrosonic, even Steinways".

Interesting - why don't the techs like them?

I too REALLY liked the one example of the Baldwin school upright I played. Really rich, nice action, etc.

I recently bought a rough looking Baldwin 243 studio from a local college... the exterior was scratched up and scuffed up, but the insides were in pristine condition. It cleaned up nicely and I tuned it for the first time yesterday (was not out of tune too much when I got it).

As you say, the tone is very nice for a 45" upright, and the action feels very nice too.

It's been (and is) a fun project.

Baldwin 243

Rick

Just piling on here. The Essex is a decent enough piano, as is the U1 in its own way: very precise, light action and clear, zingy tone.

Your tech's behavior is disgraceful. Techs are usually trustworthy, and a welcome break from dealer / salespeople. Sad to hear!

There is one underlying theme here that seems needs mentioning:

Despite what anybody can or will say about someone else's piano, it's the buyers and owners themselves who decide rightfully on the "beauty" of their own instruments.

Once a decision for a piano is made, all others are only by-standers. For those who are asked into the process to make an instrument an even better one, it is a "priviledge".

No more - no less.

This is what was sorely missed in this case.

Norbert

Yes, Norbert. To each, their own.

I agree with the coments above and have one thing to add. A false beating string is not rare. In most cases the manufacturer will consider it a defect in material and cover its replacement under warranty.

I would contact your dealer and inquire. In my experience Steinway and their dealers are very responsible when it come to warranty claims.

Steinway grand does sound better than my Essex. I tried