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#1780780 - 10/31/11 08:37 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Stanny Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 1461
I don't know if you can raise your rates by 33% or not, but one year I raised mine by 25%. No one quit.
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#1780787 - 10/31/11 08:48 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Stanny]
currawong Offline
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Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5917
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Stanny
I don't know if you can raise your rates by 33% or not, but one year I raised mine by 25%. No one quit.
Whether 25% (or 33%) is too much depends on how low they actually were to start with, I guess. smile
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#1780855 - 10/31/11 11:24 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: pianomommy1]
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/09
Posts: 1702
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: pianomommy1
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders
Originally Posted By: Minniemay
Dustin, I find your general attitude hard to swallow. You have a lot to learn.


general attitude? Are you referencing my criticism on religion? I'd be happy to provide my real thoughts on it if you so desired.




I think Minnie is implying that (as you said) you are only 24 with no degree and you seem to "value" yourself above all other teachers (ok -- most). That said, I agree with Minnie -- you have a lot to learn over the years when you get to be 45, 55, 65, and you have LIFE under you and you have a degree (maybe) and you have a better sense of business, and you have been teaching longer. Please respect those who have been at "this" a lot longer than you and who treat others with the respect they deserve.

In our 20's, most of us thought that we knew better than others too, and then we realized later that we didn't know as much as we thought we did.


+1
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#1781013 - 11/01/11 09:42 AM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4526
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Um, it's not about how young someone is. Off the top of my head, I can think of one incredible 25-year-old that that is an amazing pianist and can be an unbelievable coach. He's better than most teachers here as both a pianist and teacher, I can almost guarantee that.. And some people here are 40+. So age does NOT matter - what matters is what you actually know and your experiences...... Just saying.
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#1781014 - 11/01/11 09:47 AM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
bmbutler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 226
Loc: North Carolina
Wow. Just finished reading this thread. Amazing how we let this person drag us down into a "discussion" of churches and the United States (which BTW, if you don't like it here, please leave. I will be happy to buy you a one way ticket! Sorry.....just sick and tired of the syncophant brats who do nothing (including work) but sit around and complain and listen to the national news without getting the facts!). Why not leave this where its lays and move on to more relevant teaching topics!
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#1781027 - 11/01/11 10:05 AM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Pogorelich.]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
So age does NOT matter - what matters is what you actually know and your experiences...... Just saying.


Surprising as it may seem, I tend to agree. Many people do little with their allocation of years but grow older. I doubt I'm substantially wiser or more competent than I was thirty years ago -- I've just got a whole lot more cynical.

It's all about quality, rather than quantity.

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#1781028 - 11/01/11 10:07 AM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
just remembering that we used to pay $2.75 for lessons when i was a kid.. (i'm not that old really).
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#1781034 - 11/01/11 10:14 AM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4526
Loc: in the past
Yes apple, and I bet rent didn't use to be so high.
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#1781070 - 11/01/11 11:47 AM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11680
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders

I wasn't advertising $400 / month for the entire last year. I was doing about $200 / month simply using google adwords. That got me most of my students because my website wasn't listed high at that time. Craigslist brought me some as well. Then within the past 3 months, I've been doing about $400 to push really hard to max out my studio.

This word of mouth you speak of doesn't get you 30 students within a years time during the FIRST year you start teaching. I would find that to be insane if anyone attempted to argue it IS possible. Unless you get lucky and have another teacher send you all their students after they move or they retire.

I had to spend money to get my students. Many of my students travel a big distance to reach me. I had lots of families pass me up because I lived too far away from them.

So , yeah - within a year, advertising between 200 and 400 a month , I have gotten together 30 students within a year.

If anyone could explain to me how spending $400 a month when the advertising costs are quite well paid for with the income of my lessons is a bad idea ...


I don't have a problem with advertising at all..whatever works. But, you've only been teaching for a year?? That statement in bold is what I'm referring to, and perhaps I misunderstand your meaning. I just find it odd, if that's the case, why you are touting experience as being more important than education when it comes to being a good teacher, and yet you have neither?
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#1781081 - 11/01/11 12:07 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Keith D Kerman Offline
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Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3308
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
I think this is a moral question because the OP may feel that he is not worth what he is charging regardless of whether or not he is able to fill his studio at that rate.

There are piano teachers who charge $200 per lesson and are a bargain, and there are piano teachers who charge $20 per hour who are worse than a rip off.

So, to the OP, you have to define what makes a credible piano teacher worthy of what you are charging, and if you are living up to that definition, then you will not be troubled by what you are charging.
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#1781082 - 11/01/11 12:07 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11680
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders


When I see the mega churches and million dollar private jets publically frowned upon by the majority of other churches and pastors or Christians - instead of them preaching hate towards homosexuals and atheists, then I might agree with your point.


Interesting you don't feel upset by people who making prejudicial sweeping statements about churches. FYI, there are many churches who don't follow this model, some of which you don't even see because they meet in homes and decide not to spend money on a building, but rather donate their funds toward the community and individuals as they are needed.

Quote:
I was also under the impression that many small churches have to give a portion of their rakings to their parent churches and organizations who are all part of the entire chain of command - which eventually leads to the megachurches and high profile church leaders who are making quite a lot of money.


This is sometimes the case, but not always. There are many non-denominational churches that do no have to pay any money to a larger organization.

You seem to have an incorrect view that the smaller churches pay for the mega churches. Many mega churches in the US are not a part of a denomination at all, and churches are not funded by the denomination, they are funded by donations from the church goers. They don't donate money and then pass that up the chain and then the larger churches get the money. It's not some Ponzi scheme. The mega churches and the small churches alike are mainly funded by those that attend. As far as I know, church organizations do not give money to its members, at least from the ones I've seen, no matter what the size is.

As far as a church belonging to a denomination and pays some sort of dues to that organization. How is this bad? I pay dues to be a part of MTNA because there are benefits that I get as being a member. What's wrong with wanting to put one's money toward something important to them? The same goes for an organization. If a person has a problem with how their church uses their funds, they can certainly serve on the finance committee, or go to a church that handles things in a way they agree with.

Quote:
errrr, and the music colleges and symphonies do not lay guilt trips on their members or hint that you may not be a proper member if you do not donate 10% of your income.


Many churches also do not do this. How can you make such statements with confidence when you are obviously so clueless about reality? Just because you know of one or two places like this does not mean they are all like this. And of course, to imply that all or most of organizations do something you'd have to know all or most of them to be correct.

Quote:
An argument could also be made that they actually teach things that are beneficial to society, rather than a church for instance where it isn't an academic institution, but a place for a few to tell the many what they believe is the true interpretation of ONE book, but without actually teaching the mainstream textual criticism of the majority of new testament scholars. So churches are not there to teach, but to preach. I think that's a notable difference.

Symphonies and music schools also do not discriminate based off sexual orientation or belief system.


Sounds like you have a lot of personal issues with regards to a church. I'm sorry that you've been hurt, but please do not assume everyone is like your experience. And please stop bashing those that do belong to churches (or churches themselves). That would be akin to a person hating piano teachers because they had a bad piano teacher, and believing that all piano teachers are like that.
_________________________
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#1781086 - 11/01/11 12:14 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
To think that a minister might earn as much as a basketball coach! Outrageous! laugh
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a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
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#1781090 - 11/01/11 12:20 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5496
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Morodiene - +1. I was just trying to think of ways to say much the same thing, with emphasis on church finances and reporting issues. I've been a bookkeeper for several religious organizations, of different faiths, and they vary all over the map. While I do have some thoughts about the way churches are treated differently from other non-profits, their actual tax structure isn't different from the local animal shelter except in the housing allowance for the minister. It would be nice, I think, if the OP had more facts in his command before making such broad and obviously negative-opinion statements. JMO, of course.

And by-the-way, I don't think of myself as either Christian, Jewish, or atheist smile There's all kinds of folks out here.

Cathy
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#1781105 - 11/01/11 12:49 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: jotur]
piano joy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Florida
Dustin, back to your original question:

"What do you do? Raise the rates and risk losing a good portion of your current students while getting new ones that will pay that much - raise them incrementally over a couple years - Or do you keep the rates the same for the current students , weed out some of the ones that are a total hassle and replace them with new students that pay the new rates?

Let's take it a step further. What if you are sure you can get $70/ hour while still having a full studio?"


Obviously, the teachers on this forum would take various approaches; the Greeks have a saying that goes (translated) "all five fingers are not equal" - ha, appropriate for Piano World, right?
The real question is- what would YOU do?
I'm betting you already know the answer to this, you were just curious as to the other responses.
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I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
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#1781108 - 11/01/11 01:00 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11644
Loc: Canada
Back to the topic. Most entrepreneurs are probably familiar with the sales techniques presented here since so many how-to articles mention them: web-site with key words leading search engines to your site, a list of popular things attracting customers such as "101 ways to". I think, though, that if your business is also a profession then you have to tweak it a bit from the way that a seller of baubles and trinkets might do things. People also want to engage a professional who knows what he is doing, and keeps the interest and well-being of his customer in mind at all times. And unlike the bauble-seller, you are building long-term relationships so you don't just want to attract customers - you want to attract customers who will work with you.

I looked at a couple of the "attractive" sites as if I was shopping for a teacher. The comments were not informative: that teachers were nice, friendly, that kind of thing. The fact that somebody was able to sing in tune for the first time was actually significant. One of the sites has a clip on minor and major scales, followed by a guitar teacher floundering around about what a minor scale might actually be and then dashing off a couple of fast runs before settling down to the fact that you can keep the same hand position for this particular scale (whichever it was). Would that clip induce me to study with that teacher, regardless of how "friendly" he is?

Dustin, your site has two items that I find attractive. One is where you have the two flowers and discuss a philosophy blending know-how and an inner something. It shows a teacher who is thinking about his craft. The other is where you talk about your inner world of practicing. Somehow none of that caring about your craft or your students come across in these "marketing type" posts. They seem one-sided, needlessly.

Btw, I agree with the idea of ongoing education or self-improvement of the teacher (or any professional), but I don't know if that has to happen necessarily in institutions. People improve by honing their craft after finishing studies, and they might also study with a master teacher without there being paper records of the fact. Just a thought that cropped up.

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#1781111 - 11/01/11 01:11 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: bmbutler]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: bmbutler
Wow. Just finished reading this thread. Amazing how we let this person drag us down into a "discussion" of churches and the United States (which BTW, if you don't like it here, please leave. I will be happy to buy you a one way ticket! Sorry.....just sick and tired of the syncophant brats who do nothing (including work) but sit around and complain and listen to the national news without getting the facts!). Why not leave this where its lays and move on to more relevant teaching topics!


Imagine Atheists or Homosexuals publically telling Christians who speak out against them to 'leave the country'. What an absolutely bigoted statement you just wrote. Sycophant brat? Because I am liberal on my views of organized religion?

Or Simply because you don't agree with me!?
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#1781120 - 11/01/11 01:19 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: LeaC]
LeaC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 413
Loc: USA
My post should read "vicious" not "viscious". Ever wake up in the middle of the night and realize bad spelling or grammar? blush
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#1781123 - 11/01/11 01:21 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Morodiene]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
[quote=Dustin Sanders]
Sounds like you have a lot of personal issues with regards to a church. I'm sorry that you've been hurt, but please do not assume everyone is like your experience. And please stop bashing those that do belong to churches (or churches themselves). That would be akin to a person hating piano teachers because they had a bad piano teacher, and believing that all piano teachers are like that.


Ahh, the common fallacy that people use to degrade the actual views someone might show about religion.

I was never part of a church and I was never 'hurt' by any church.

You may inform a Moderator about my diverging discussion which doesn't have any relevance to the OP, but what you should not do is attempt to modify the way I speak and what I speak about just because it might not agree with your own personal views.
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#1781128 - 11/01/11 01:27 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: jotur]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: jotur
Morodiene - +1. I was just trying to think of ways to say much the same thing, with emphasis on church finances and reporting issues. I've been a bookkeeper for several religious organizations, of different faiths, and they vary all over the map. While I do have some thoughts about the way churches are treated differently from other non-profits, their actual tax structure isn't different from the local animal shelter except in the housing allowance for the minister. It would be nice, I think, if the OP had more facts in his command before making such broad and obviously negative-opinion statements. JMO, of course.

And by-the-way, I don't think of myself as either Christian, Jewish, or atheist smile There's all kinds of folks out here.

Cathy



I did say 'It was my impression' .. I didn't really intend to state that bit as fact as I am not well informed as to how the church structures work. But not knowing the exact details to every church denomination and how it works does not negate other views I may have expressed. It simply means I am ignorant on one specific sub topic in regards to organized religion as a whole.
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#1781131 - 11/01/11 01:28 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: piano joy]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: piano joy
Dustin, back to your original question:

"What do you do? Raise the rates and risk losing a good portion of your current students while getting new ones that will pay that much - raise them incrementally over a couple years - Or do you keep the rates the same for the current students , weed out some of the ones that are a total hassle and replace them with new students that pay the new rates?

Let's take it a step further. What if you are sure you can get $70/ hour while still having a full studio?"


Obviously, the teachers on this forum would take various approaches; the Greeks have a saying that goes (translated) "all five fingers are not equal" - ha, appropriate for Piano World, right?
The real question is- what would YOU do?
I'm betting you already know the answer to this, you were just curious as to the other responses.


You're sort of right, I already had in mind incremental increases, but wasn't sure the distance I should put between them.
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#1781139 - 11/01/11 01:35 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
To think that a minister might earn as much as a basketball coach! Outrageous! laugh


I am consistent in that I don't think professional athletes or the team coaches should be earning multiple millions each year either. smile

But it is not quite the same analogy, as the Prosperity Gospel is quite real and a very large portion of church goers are under the impression that if they tithe more, they will be higher up in some sort of hierarchy when it comes time to claim their place in Heaven. Or that they and their children will be blessed during their times on Earth.

Pro coaches don't generally make those sort of statements.

"It is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the Kingdom of God."

So, the Pastors are not following the same thing they are asking their congregational members and supporters to follow - in essence, they are hypocrites of the highest order, unlike the Coaches and Athletes.
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#1781141 - 11/01/11 01:36 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Keith D Kerman]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Keith D Kerman
I think this is a moral question because the OP may feel that he is not worth what he is charging regardless of whether or not he is able to fill his studio at that rate.

There are piano teachers who charge $200 per lesson and are a bargain, and there are piano teachers who charge $20 per hour who are worse than a rip off.

So, to the OP, you have to define what makes a credible piano teacher worthy of what you are charging, and if you are living up to that definition, then you will not be troubled by what you are charging.



very well put, sir. Thank you for the thoughtful comment.
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#1781163 - 11/01/11 01:57 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Morodiene]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders

I wasn't advertising $400 / month for the entire last year. I was doing about $200 / month simply using google adwords. That got me most of my students because my website wasn't listed high at that time. Craigslist brought me some as well. Then within the past 3 months, I've been doing about $400 to push really hard to max out my studio.

This word of mouth you speak of doesn't get you 30 students within a years time during the FIRST year you start teaching. I would find that to be insane if anyone attempted to argue it IS possible. Unless you get lucky and have another teacher send you all their students after they move or they retire.

I had to spend money to get my students. Many of my students travel a big distance to reach me. I had lots of families pass me up because I lived too far away from them.

So , yeah - within a year, advertising between 200 and 400 a month , I have gotten together 30 students within a year.

If anyone could explain to me how spending $400 a month when the advertising costs are quite well paid for with the income of my lessons is a bad idea ...


I don't have a problem with advertising at all..whatever works. But, you've only been teaching for a year?? That statement in bold is what I'm referring to, and perhaps I misunderstand your meaning. I just find it odd, if that's the case, why you are touting experience as being more important than education when it comes to being a good teacher, and yet you have neither?



Are you kidding me? Just because I have acquired 30 students in the last year does NOT mean I haven't taught BEFORE that year. You're doing everything you can to see only black and white here based off some words.

I ran tennis group clinics from the age of 15 to 18 , dealing with children and adults of all ages. My mentor at the time was somebody who had a degree in psychology and had over a dozen years of experience in teaching kids and adults and I learned a lot from him.

I also read things. You know, get differing opinions, even if I disagree with them ...

I also have been teaching piano since I was 16 on and off, acquiring students here and there.

I also have more passion and drive which has to at least count for something.

Quite contrary, I would say that old age is not at all a factor to how good someone is. They could be old, have more 'experience', but experience means nothing at all if you are aren't improving. The term 'experience' just means you've done it more than someone else, it doesn't specify how WELL you do it or if you have gotten WORSE due to lack of passion and interest.



Edited by Dustin Sanders (11/01/11 01:58 PM)
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#1781166 - 11/01/11 02:03 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Oh, and just if anyone is concerned, I have finally taken into account others views on so called teacher or studio slandering in advertising methods. So I have decided to change website so that It does not reflect so much on this issue. Not saying I'll get rid of every mention of this issue, but I'll revise it so it won't be so offensive to others that have made a strong case.

I also promise to not post anything more in response to my comments on religion. I see that issue has really derailed the thread!
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#1781180 - 11/01/11 02:47 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
pianomommy1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 54
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders
Originally Posted By: bmbutler
Wow. Just finished reading this thread. Amazing how we let this person drag us down into a "discussion" of churches and the United States (which BTW, if you don't like it here, please leave. I will be happy to buy you a one way ticket! Sorry.....just sick and tired of the syncophant brats who do nothing (including work) but sit around and complain and listen to the national news without getting the facts!). Why not leave this where its lays and move on to more relevant teaching topics!


Imagine Atheists or Homosexuals publically telling Christians who speak out against them to 'leave the country'. What an absolutely bigoted statement you just wrote. Sycophant brat? Because I am liberal on my views of organized religion?

Or Simply because you don't agree with me!?


Dustin -- I do NOT this this person was saying for "you" or someone like you to leave the country. She/He was making the statement in regards to one who would be complaining about the United States -- THAT is what she was referring to. Please don't make this into more than what it is.
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#1781183 - 11/01/11 02:51 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
pianomommy1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 54
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
To think that a minister might earn as much as a basketball coach! Outrageous! laugh


I am consistent in that I don't think professional athletes or the team coaches should be earning multiple millions each year either. smile

But it is not quite the same analogy, as the Prosperity Gospel is quite real and a very large portion of church goers are under the impression that if they tithe more, they will be higher up in some sort of hierarchy when it comes time to claim their place in Heaven. Or that they and their children will be blessed during their times on Earth.

Pro coaches don't generally make those sort of statements.

"It is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the Kingdom of God."

So, the Pastors are not following the same thing they are asking their congregational members and supporters to follow - in essence, they are hypocrites of the highest order, unlike the Coaches and Athletes.


Dustin -- I would ask you to refrain from speaking of this of which you do not know. You have said yourself that you don't go to church and haven't and therefor when you make statements like the one above, it shows that you don't know of what you speak.
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#1781184 - 11/01/11 02:55 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
LeaC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 413
Loc: USA

"20.) If you get completely desperate after trying the above 19, try this for a little edge. Post the most unwelcoming and heartless reviews on any and all competition sites within 50 miles. Those potential clients may look elsewhere and find your site instead!"

Dustin, am I reading this correctly or are my eyes playing tricks on me? As outspoken as I am, I find this to be shocking. Dear, I am beginning to think that you are very self destructive. Think about that.

Also, if you are moving your studio up to Church Lane (my former studio) do be aware that St. Joe's is where many conservative Catholics go to school and take lessons there. The head Mother there is a no-nonsense person who will openly speak against you if she gets wind of your views. You should know that. That's the way it is over there.
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Working on: Reworking Bartok's Suite Opus 14, Chopin's Polonaise Op.40, The Military (so much fun!)

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#1781188 - 11/01/11 02:59 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Dustin Sanders]
pianomommy1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 54
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders

I wasn't advertising $400 / month for the entire last year. I was doing about $200 / month simply using google adwords. That got me most of my students because my website wasn't listed high at that time. Craigslist brought me some as well. Then within the past 3 months, I've been doing about $400 to push really hard to max out my studio.

This word of mouth you speak of doesn't get you 30 students within a years time during the FIRST year you start teaching. I would find that to be insane if anyone attempted to argue it IS possible. Unless you get lucky and have another teacher send you all their students after they move or they retire.

I had to spend money to get my students. Many of my students travel a big distance to reach me. I had lots of families pass me up because I lived too far away from them.

So , yeah - within a year, advertising between 200 and 400 a month , I have gotten together 30 students within a year.

If anyone could explain to me how spending $400 a month when the advertising costs are quite well paid for with the income of my lessons is a bad idea ...


I don't have a problem with advertising at all..whatever works. But, you've only been teaching for a year?? That statement in bold is what I'm referring to, and perhaps I misunderstand your meaning. I just find it odd, if that's the case, why you are touting experience as being more important than education when it comes to being a good teacher, and yet you have neither?



Are you kidding me? Just because I have acquired 30 students in the last year does NOT mean I haven't taught BEFORE that year. You're doing everything you can to see only black and white here based off some words.

I ran tennis group clinics from the age of 15 to 18 , dealing with children and adults of all ages. My mentor at the time was somebody who had a degree in psychology and had over a dozen years of experience in teaching kids and adults and I learned a lot from him.

I also read things. You know, get differing opinions, even if I disagree with them ...

I also have been teaching piano since I was 16 on and off, acquiring students here and there.

I also have more passion and drive which has to at least count for something.

Quite contrary, I would say that old age is not at all a factor to how good someone is. They could be old, have more 'experience', but experience means nothing at all if you are aren't improving. The term 'experience' just means you've done it more than someone else, it doesn't specify how WELL you do it or if you have gotten WORSE due to lack of passion and interest.



You are right -- experience does not equate with how WELL you teach. Maybe you need to focus on letting people know WHAT KIND of experience you have teaching. I would venture to say that most of the people on this forum have a LOT of experience teaching PIANO and most of them are very good at it (regardless of how their google status is, etc). I do know that there are some teachers who are not very well versed or not very good teachers, but that is NOT the majority.

And to make a blanket statement that experience means nothing at all if you are not improving, seems to be a "dig" at those of us who are older than you and have more experience. You seem to THINK we are not improving when you don't know us at all.
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Piano Teacher



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#1781200 - 11/01/11 03:20 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: LeaC]
Stanny Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 1461
Originally Posted By: LeaC

"20.) If you get completely desperate after trying the above 19, try this for a little edge. Post the most unwelcoming and heartless reviews on any and all competition sites within 50 miles. Those potential clients may look elsewhere and find your site instead!"

Dustin, am I reading this correctly or are my eyes playing tricks on me? As outspoken as I am, I find this to be shocking. Dear, I am beginning to think that you are very self destructive. Think about that.

I'm pretty sure those were mostly tongue-in-cheek. Thus the little winking smiley at the end of the article.
_________________________
~Stanny~

Independent Music Teacher
Certified Piano Teacher, American College of Musicians
Member: MTNA, NGPT, ASMTA, NAMTA

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#1781214 - 11/01/11 03:34 PM Re: A moral Dilemma of a possibly Real Situation [Re: Stanny]
LeaC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/11
Posts: 413
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Stanny
Originally Posted By: LeaC

"20.) If you get completely desperate after trying the above 19, try this for a little edge. Post the most unwelcoming and heartless reviews on any and all competition sites within 50 miles. Those potential clients may look elsewhere and find your site instead!"

Dustin, am I reading this correctly or are my eyes playing tricks on me? As outspoken as I am, I find this to be shocking. Dear, I am beginning to think that you are very self destructive. Think about that.

I'm pretty sure those were mostly tongue-in-cheek. Thus the little winking smiley at the end of the article.


Of course, I considered that. But I still find it shocking. I can be a little rambunctious here on PW as a unidentified poster, but I am conservative and thoughtful about everything that I produce in relation to my persona as a public figure. Do you think any of us can afford the same eccentricities as say Glenn Gould, or Mozart or any outstanding personality? There are some teachers at Peabody who exhibit somewhat uninhibited behavior, but, even then, it's generally frowned upon in reality.
_________________________
Working on: Reworking Bartok's Suite Opus 14, Chopin's Polonaise Op.40, The Military (so much fun!)

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