I guarantee that these type College purchases are made 100% "sight unseen" with nobody even spending one single second to look at those instruments sent to College.

I wish we dealers for other makes would be so lucky:

It's not uncommon to have a customer ask to have a piano dismantled into its molecular sub-structure before a decision to purchase is made.

Luckily, we're never afraid to do so....

Norbert

wouldn't they end up with a Boston or Essex then?

The problem with this statement is that it is factually incorrect and, like many of your posts, has no basis in reality.

One can only hope that your store warranty is better than your forum *guarantee*.

Another point in summary: This thread has the 2nd most posts in the history of Piano World, with only the Singapore super-thread having more. It is also the 7th most viewed thread in Piano World's history. This does not include the equally long original "All Steinway School" thread.

It will be interesting to see if it, coupled with the newspaper articles link here, will have any effect on decisions made in the future. As I said before, Time will tell....

Hey, there are lots of threads on other parts of Piano World that are much longer. You forget that the Piano Forum is only one part of a larger world.

Oh yea!!

I should limit the stats to the Piano Forum.

Still....

Originally Posted By: Norbert
I guarantee that these type College purchases are made 100% "sight unseen" with nobody even spending one single second to look at [or care about..] those instruments sent to College.

Tur:



In this case I stand to be corrected.

We just did a [private..] little "College Sale" ourselves and 2 staff members came out to personally select from a number of pianos we have here.

If same was true in case of the "All Steinway College" sales where dozens of pianos are involved, the selection committee would be required to look at dozens if not hundreds of pianos first!

Of course only Tur knows where this amount of pianos are at display and the stores that keep those fabulous numbers at hand!

With seller then re-packing pianos back into their original crates again and shipping them to College!

Congratulations for having this kind of extraordinary insider's knowledge - very impressive!

Norbert

It's fairly common knowledge that selections of Steinway B's and D's for concert halls and piano faculty studios are very often done at the factory selection room in Queens. I suppose other instruments could be selected at the individual dealers, and suspect many of the Boston and Essex submodels are simply ordered.

You gotta be kidding - "suspicians" are gonna get you nowhere.

Tur is gonna rake you over the coals next making such ridiculous statement.

Let's not forget - he's the guy who's got all the "facts" - no matter what the issue...

Norbert

Good grief this would be a dull place if we stuck to the topic wouldn't it?

I never realized that piano were that dull.

Glenn

This statement is factually incorrect. It is not a matter of interpretation. It is simply incorrect.

You have no basis to make this statement. There is no way that you can support it. You should withdraw it if you wish to be seen as a credible representative of your industry.

This is correct. Many colleges supply videos on youtube of their visit to Queens as part of their college/Steinway co-promotion. There are links to several such videos on this thread. There are write=ups of particular schools' selection process linked to as well. These are provided by the schools themselves.

In the instance of one school, University of Southern California, the entire fundraising team, Thornton Steinway Partners, was flown to NYC as a way of energizing and publicizing the huge fundraising campaign it had undertaken. That link is here as well.

Other schools report working exclusively with the local Steinway dealer and selecting pianos there. I would suppose Steinway's 'generosity' in comping selection committee junkets to Queens depends on the size of the order. I don't know that for a fact, but there seems to be a pattern.

It's pretty obvious that a school ordering 45 Boston verticals (University of Victoria) or 28 Essex verticals (Bowie State) would not be hand-selecting each one of those pianos from some vast selection room maintained by Steinway NYC or the local Steinway retailer. However, several schools report checking out those sub lines at the local dealership before placing their orders. One would hope that no school purchasing a quantity of any piano would simply have it bundled in with no knowledge or experience of the particular model being purchased. That claim has been made more than once by competing retailers of Yamaha and Kawai pianos, but without any proof.

To state that 100% of these college orders secured by Steinway are bought sight unseen (which you of course did not do) is outrageous. The member who made the comment simply used it as a segue to mention how things are done differently at his retail operation. He then cited the purchase of a piano by two faculty members of a college in his showroom. I don't want to belabor the point because I'm sure anyone who has read this thread would understand the lack of truthfulness and the grandstanding in those comments. I simply wanted to note that it was an incorrect statement.

There are many valid criticisms that can be made and have been made here of the All-Steinway Schools program (and just about any sales program in the entire piano industry) without making stuff up. That kind of self-serving apporach just gets in the way.

Ya. The problem with the factory selection room there (and in Hamburg also, maybe) is that the selecting customer has not the "choice of the first night" - if you know what I mean..

There is always another person first to check the quality of a newly built Steinway piano, in New York this is Mr Ron Coner, chief concert tech. He selects for his stock of concert Ds (CD) and concert Bs (CB) first.

But I would not dare to state that the customers get presented a "second quality choice" there. Everybody to conclude his own conclusions.

Ref. to the length of these threads and theinterest in klicking these opinions, answering et cetera: could it be the case that "Steinway themes" are polarizing? Or could it be the case that a lot of people have problems with the pre potent type of marketing which we can observe with this famous company? Could it be the case that the de-facto-monopole (rel. to concert grands use) is generally a bad thing, and nobody likes Goliath but always prefers David?

..regardless how many good works Mr Goliath once might have done for the society..?..

But nobody realistically can blame the Steinway company for having gained this omnipotent position.

I personally like Steinway pianos. I am a very happy owner of a super old grand. I adore the life work of the men having once upon a time designed and built such pianos. But is it understandable that I decisively not adore the behaviour of such a "monopole marketing"? It is.. hrrmm.. very.. hm.. rather "yankee style".. And this seems (to me) something similar to the opposite of my understanding of "culture". (And boyz I can tell you that they my local representatives of that very comp. also with me tried what they name "education of customer" which is a lousy game of F.U.D. marketing. They tried to keep me off of buying my concert grand.. because of the risks involved.. I decided against their "proposals" - this was one of my best decisions in life.)

Marketing vs. Culture.. Is that a fair description (or a potential POV point of view) of the game heavily played with "All Steinway Schols" et cetera? My 0.02 EUR ct.

Who promised and sung to us when we were babies that life would be always fair?

Now it's getting philosophically, doesn't it?

Amidst all the negative media coverage of the Maryland Board vote, I came across this modest press release fromthe university itself.


Bowie State Fine Arts Set to Become “All-Steinway” Piano Program

Bowie State University’s Fine and Performing Arts Center will be an all-Steinway piano program.

The Maryland Board of Public Works voted 2-1 on Wednesday to approve $553,000 to buy four concert grand pianos and 28 Steinway-designed pianos, for a total of 32 pianos.

Steinway has picked up this release and put it verbatim on its News and Events feed that it sends to its dealers. However, there is no mention of Bowie State as yet on Steinway's public web site.

The fact that the new $79 million Fine and Performing Arts Center is being listed as receiving the designation instead of the university may be indicative of how the school and Steinway will try to steer clear of any more political hay being made from the purchased 'Award'.

Meawhile, another college has quietly been added to the All-Steinway Schools officail roster with no public press release from Steinway. The collge press release is the familiar formula...institutional excellence partners with Steinway excellence, but there is some information on the product mix in the order (for those who find that important).



Posted in the Georgia College web site November 21, 2011

Georgia College earns All-Steinway School distinction


Georgia College has earned the designation as an All-Steinway School, one of five universities in the state of Georgia.

The university provides 18 Steinway pianos — seven grands and 11 uprights — across the campus for practice, rehearsal and performance.

“This distinction should have the effect of improving piano student recruitment,” said Ken Procter, dean of the College of Arts and Sciences. “It also has an impact on student recruitment overall. All music students take piano at some level, and the Steinway pianos and designation indicate our serious commitment to quality.”

All-Steinway Schools demonstrate a commitment to excellence by providing their students and faculties with the best equipment possible for the study of music, according to Steinway & Sons Inc.

To achieve the designation, Steinway requires its products represent 90 percent of the university’s piano inventory.

“Steinway is recognized all over the world,” said Dr. Victor Vallo, chair of the Department of Music.

The distinction has been years in the making, Vallo said.

“The whole process started about five years ago when Dr. Richard Mercier was chair of the Department of Music,” Vallo said. “He deserves the credit as the initiator of this All-Steinway School initiative.”

The university completed the process this year with the purchase of 10 Steinway “Boston” upright pianos for practice rooms in Porter Hall.

Previously, the university purchased a 7-foot Steinway Concert Grand piano in 2009. And during 2006 donations helped purchase an earlier 7-foot Steinway Concert Grand.

Pianists use the grands in Max Noah Recital Hall and Russell Auditorium for performances.

The university’s oldest Steinway, circa 1890, is still in use in Chappell Hall.

“One of the points of quality of Steinway pianos is their longevity,” Procter said. “That makes them great investments.”

Vallo considers the “prestigious recognition” as an honor for the university.

If a single example of these "Steinways" is not made in NY, then this press release is ..... telling an untruth.

Not exactly. The college provided that press release. Steinway has not linked to it. The link to Georgia College used by Steinway in listing Georgia College on the official roster is to the main college web site, not to the college's press release of the purchase.

http://www.gcsu.edu/

It goes back to a point first made by Numerian on the banished thread -- that Steinway needn't take responsibility for correcting any erroneous information provided by schools themselves in their own media releases or public statements.

Yes, exactly. I was accusing the school that issued the statement, not Steinway.

On March 9th, a Utah State University Youtube promo appeared which was simultaneously linked to on Steinway 's News and Events page. If you followed this thread, you might want to view it in its entirety.

This Youtube, IMO, is several notches above any previous A.S.S. promotional video. Production values are high, but the slickness is gone. The school, rightfully so in this case, is the star. Interweaving of Steinway factory footage is minimal, and there are no canned interviews, testimonies, or exchanges between college staff and Steinway staff. Disclosure of what was actually purchased is extremely transparent, and the history of Utah State's growth in the arts and its long association with Steinway is downright interesting.

Kudos to Utah State and Steinway for such a classy effort!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6Gs8_44WzI&feature=youtu.be



In other A.S.S. news, Bowiegate is now four months in the read-view mirror. No Bowie listing in the A.S.S. roster, no mention of any 'Award' ceremony, no media attention whatsoever. Did Steve Cohen spoil the party? Was Steinway paying attention? You never know.

It was a quiet period for A.S.S. press releases until late February when the Odessa American's online version did a story which Steinway picked up for its News and Events page. Odessa College, a 2-year community college in Texas, has only received one piano to date, but those interested in QRS PNOMation technology and its music notation capabilities through computer interface might want to check out the link.

http://www.oaoa.com/articles/new-82550-odessa-college.html

Kudos to Utah State for making an A.S.S of themselves.

That would probably net you a few chuckles and hee-haws from your Piano Facts buddies, but to any informed person, the label you're suggesting goes straight back to you.

If you're going to type A.S.S. four times in a post you should be prepared to lighten up.

OK, I'll go back to spelling All Steinway Schools out in full. This thread got me tired of doing that, but it's actually more tedious to put in the periods to make the abbreviation.

Then I'll take it that you have nothing against Utah State.

On the contrary, my son is on the verge of accepting a piano scholarship to an All Steinway School. Among other reasons, he'd have regular access to the amazing B on which he auditioned.

Turandot--

So, are we going with the "blanket license" or the "per program" model for use/royalty payments?

/snarky

That frisbee sailed far over my head. I don't know what you mean.

You just might be a little naive, then again maybe not.

How many students have been promised "regular access" to the B? Is the time that the B is available prioritized by faculty, juniors and seniors?

If the answers show limited access, I'd also consider the quality of pianos in practice rooms.

As to Utah's handling of the All Steinway School video, I think it is very well done. I particularly like its focus on music education and its history at the college.

There was no discussion or promise of access at all. It's simply an assumption based on the fact that it's a very small Jazz Studies department and the audition occurred on the piano that resides in their main room for combo rehearsals and classes. To be clear, access to that B is the least of his reasons but it certainly made an impression. He preferred it to the three D's and one B that are part of his current routine.

I would be careful about assumptions.

At the college near me, the large grand in one of the main rooms for rehearsals and classes is locked when there is not a rehearsal or class.

Unsure if piano students are given a key.

The practice rooms have smaller grands.

My assumption isn't that he'll get to practice on that piano whenever he wants. It's that he'll be expected to play it during his frequent combo classes and rehearsals that take place in that room.

Ah, I see. That makes more sense. Best wishes to your son in his music studies.