SEARCH
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories

PianoSupplies.com (a division of Piano World) Piano & music accessories, music theme decoratons, tuning & repair tools, moving equipment, party goods,music gift items, ... more
Free shipping on Jansen Artist Benches.
(ad) irocku - Rock Piano Lessons
irocku rock piano lessons
ad (Pianoteq)
Create your own piano with Pianoteq!
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad 125) Sweetwater
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
Who's Online
174 registered (Aibori Firu, alans, alekkh, Amir, AldenH, Amaruk), 1211 Guests and 20 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Ad (Pearl River)
Pearl River Pianos
Forum Stats
64892 Members
40 Forums
132561 Topics
1894630 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)
Forums by Piano World

www.pianoworld.com
Advertise on Piano World
Topic Options
#1778356 - 10/27/11 07:28 PM Why do music sheets drop chord notes?
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
For example, the chord is Cmaj7, but one of the notes is missing and there are only 3 notes being played. Sometimes it is because that missing note is too close to the melody note, so it is dropped to avoid dissonance, and I can understand that, but sometimes that is not the case. I mean when the missing note can actually be put there and it sounds even better and richer, in my opinion, so why was the note dropped in that case? Was it to make it easier to play (Hal Leonard does this a lot), or is it because the transcriber truly believes that it sounds better with that note omitted?

Top
Piano & Music Accessories
#1778366 - 10/27/11 07:59 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
rocket88 Online   happy
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 2532
It is very common to play chords with one or more notes "missing". Just because a chord has 4 or more notes does not mean they all must be played every time the chord is played.

Sometimes note(s) are dropped because it is music for beginners, so it makes it easier.

Other times it is because the dropped notes would muddy up the sound, (especially true in the lower registers), other times simply for convenience in playing, and sometimes the sound calls for a sparser chord.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

"They may call me a rube and a hick, but I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it." Will Rogers

Top
#1778369 - 10/27/11 08:07 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: rocket88]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: rocket88
It is very common to play chords with one or more notes "missing". Just because a chord has 4 or more notes does not mean they all must be played every time the chord is played.

Sometimes note(s) are dropped because it is music for beginners, so it makes it easier.

Other times it is because the dropped notes would muddy up the sound, (especially true in the lower registers), other times simply for convenience in playing, and sometimes the sound calls for a sparser chord.


Ok, let's suppose you decide to pencil in that missing chord note anyway, and you play it and you think that it actually sounds nicer. Is this just a subjective thing then? Or is it possible that the transcriber watching this would say "What the %#$% are you doing? That's just wrong!" And I'm referring to transcriptions, not compositions.


Edited by MathTeacher (10/27/11 08:21 PM)

Top
#1778401 - 10/27/11 09:20 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
Hidden son of Teddy Wilson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 74
Well IMHO rocket88 's reply pretty much says it all.

But...

Originally Posted By: MathTeacher

Ok, let's suppose you decide to pencil in that missing chord note anyway, and you play it and you think that it actually sounds nicer. Is this just a subjective thing then?


Yes it's subjective, you can play what you think sounds better.

Originally Posted By: MathTeacher

Or is it possible that the transcriber watching this would say "What the %#$% are you doing? That's just wrong!" And I'm referring to transcriptions, not compositions.


It's also possible that the transcriber made a mistake !
(Or the editor that came after).

Are we talking about transcriptions of improvised jazz solos, like those books with transcribed solos by Oscar Peterson, Keith Jarrett, etc? Because, there's very different levels of quality out there, there are transcriptions full of mistakes and approximations, and also (to their credit) sometimes it's very difficult to hear what the guy really played.

And, the next day, the player might play it differently, so it's not really important. A transcription, even if it were accurate, would be only one possible implementation.

But frankly... for one note left out, play it or don't, but I really wouldn't lose too much sleep over that ! Just play what you think sounds good. And, what you think sounds good evolves over time... so.... know what I mean ?

Maybe you could provide some specific examples? What's the note being left out ?

Top
#1778427 - 10/27/11 09:59 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: Hidden son of Teddy Wilson]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Hidden son of Teddy Wilson
Maybe you could provide some specific examples? What's the note being left out ?


So many examples. Here's just one:


First measure, E and G left out in Am7 chord. I play it with E above that C half-note, and I think it sounds better (even with the G too it sounds nice, even though it is only a major 2nd below the melody note). Why was the E dropped out, or the G? Same issue with the next measure, playing the F note above the Bb note in the bass sounds nicer in my opinion.


Edited by MathTeacher (10/27/11 10:07 PM)

Top
#1778429 - 10/27/11 10:11 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
rocket88 Online   happy
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 2532
When there is a Chord notation above the music as your example provides, that does not mean that the chord is played with every note possible, at least not at that moment.

It simply means that some version or inversion or construction that includes some of those notes from the chord is being played starting at that moment.

In your example above, the Am7 chord is there, beginning with a minimum skeleton of the Am chord (A and C). The music then adds the E immediately following the first beat; Next on the second beat with the RH comes the G for the seventh tone, thus "fulfilling the prophesy" of Am7 as announced at the beginning of the measure.

So all the notes of the Am7 chord are present by the second beat...none are "left out" as you claim.

This creates a nice subtle progression. If you crashed in with the entire chord at the first beat, that subteley would be lost.

You have to look past the way of thinking that says every note of a chord must be there at the very first announcement of the chord. It often is not like that.

The chord reference simply says that such-and-such a chord is going to be developed starting now, and continuing until the next chord begins to be played, again either in completion, or in pieces.


Edited by rocket88 (10/27/11 10:36 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

"They may call me a rube and a hick, but I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it." Will Rogers

Top
#1778430 - 10/27/11 10:18 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
Hidden son of Teddy Wilson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 74
Ok... first of all I have a really restrictive definition of "transcription", like I said above, for me, a transcription is a written out score of something someone (preferably someone good, or great) actually played on a recording. Your example seems to be extracted from some kind of fake book.

You can (and should) tweak them to your liking. And I have found that they are sometimes very far away from recorded versions. I was working on Maybe This Time recently and it's amazing how the score I have is different from the recorded version.

The fifth is not really important, you can play it or not, it can sometimes sound muddy. If you like it better go ahead !

For the Am7 : ok they wrote Am7 but there's an F in the small notes, that might clash with the G you wanna play. (I can't try this out right now because I have neighbors!)

Are you doing this with a singer ?

Anyway ... I always take the score with a grain of salt.

I keep seeing stuff like Dm/F when what they should really write is F6, and lots of other strange stuff. Listen to the recording, use the score as a guideline, but the recording is the truth.

Top
#1778447 - 10/27/11 10:40 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: rocket88]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: rocket88
When there is a Chord notation above the music as your example provides, that does not mean that the chord is played with every note possible, at least not at that moment.

It simply means that some version or inversion or construction that includes some of those notes from the chord is being played starting at that moment.

In your example above, the Am7 chord is there, beginning with a minimum skeleton of the Am chord (A and C). The music then adds the E immediately following the first beat; Next on the second beat with the RH comes the G for the seventh tone, thus "fulfilling the prophesy" of Am7 as announced at the beginning of the measure.

So all the notes of the Am7 chord are present by the second beat...none are "left out" as you claim.

This creates a nice subtle progression. If you crashed in with the entire chord at the first beat, that subteley would be lost.

You have to look past the way of thinking that says every note of a chord must be there at the very first announcement of the chord. It often is not like that.

The chord reference simply says that such-and-such a chord is going to be developed starting now, and continuing until the next chord begins to be played, again either in completion, or in pieces.


In the second measure, there is no F note being developed at all for the Bb major chord. But anyways, I do get the essence of what you are saying.

Top
#1778454 - 10/27/11 10:49 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
rocket88 Online   happy
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 2532
Originally Posted By: MathTeacher


In the second measure, there is no F note being developed at all for the Bb major chord. But anyways, I do get the essence of what you are saying.


Sometimes all the possible notes of a chord simply are not used...in those cases, the chord symbol is the name of the chord anyways, as it most closely describes what is happening, and, as those symbols in your example also include guitar symbols, that allows other instruments, including guitar, to play some or all notes of the chord.


Edited by rocket88 (10/27/11 11:14 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

"They may call me a rube and a hick, but I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it." Will Rogers

Top
#1778573 - 10/28/11 03:59 AM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1777
Loc: Decatur, Texas
In your example, the tabs above the score are for guitar. The tab for A7 shows that the E, & G are played by the guitar.

If you are playing piano without guitar or vocal, then feel free to play whatever you like.
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

Top
#1778596 - 10/28/11 06:25 AM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: Studio Joe]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Studio Joe
In your example, the tabs above the score are for guitar. The tab for A7 shows that the E, & G are played by the guitar.

If you are playing piano without guitar or vocal, then feel free to play whatever you like.


Yes, I think that is what I'll be doing, if I feel it sounds better. I generally like maxing out on the chords at the point it is announced, giving what I feel is a richer sound. But I will also keep in mind that it is also at a cost of subtlety, as Rocket mentioned.

Top
#1778824 - 10/28/11 01:56 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
lechuan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 161
After I auditioned for music school playing full chords in the left hand, one of the teachers looked a bit concerned and said that I need to work on not just playing full root position chords (ie. voicings; dropping out some of the chord tones, spreading out the chords, addding tensions, etc).

Top
#1778882 - 10/28/11 03:07 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
KlinkKlonk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 292
Always a good idea to have some inner movements outside the melody. Tensions and resolutions. Try making countermelodies in the left hand or with the right hand thumb. Add passing chords and make interesting bass lines. .Remember that the chords and chordsymbols originally evolved from polpyphonic music and counterpoint. Ignoring the written music in these pop music arrangements is always a good idea unless it's been specifically arranged for piano.

Top
#1778892 - 10/28/11 03:18 PM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
jotur Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 4217
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
I used full chords because I didn't know any differently for a long time. Now I use them when I'm analyzing a piece to see the chord progressions, when I'm practicing inversions and chord progressions, etc, to get a full picture in my mind. I'm far less often playing things the exact way they are written, but more and more appreciating different voicings, other than using all the notes of a chord. It gives me more options, as KlinkKlonk says, for counter melodies, passing notes, interesting riffs, or just good open-sounding simplicity.

It's not note-for-note classical - it's wide-open for interpretations, to me.

Cathy

Top
#1779254 - 10/29/11 08:18 AM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: jotur]
Exalted Wombat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 874
Loc: London UK
When playing solo piano, the LH is best occupied in playing a strong, musical bass line. If you're in an ensemble with a real bass player it may play chords, but they will rarely be full close-position triads and 7th chords - they just tend to sound muddy in the lower register. Think more of using the LH to propel the rhythm of the music. The only time you would just plonk down a full chord in the LH is when playing an automatic keyboard which uses it to recognize the harmony you require.

Top
#1779315 - 10/29/11 11:13 AM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: MathTeacher]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 725
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
for an exercise, practice Dave McKenna style left hand bass lines
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

Top
#1779330 - 10/29/11 11:38 AM Re: Why do music sheets drop chord notes? [Re: Exalted Wombat]
MathTeacher Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 256
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
When playing solo piano, the LH is best occupied in playing a strong, musical bass line. If you're in an ensemble with a real bass player it may play chords, but they will rarely be full close-position triads and 7th chords - they just tend to sound muddy in the lower register. Think more of using the LH to propel the rhythm of the music. The only time you would just plonk down a full chord in the LH is when playing an automatic keyboard which uses it to recognize the harmony you require.


Yes, full chords in the LH tend to sound muddy quite often. So for a 4-note chord, I usually will play around 3 chord notes in the RH (all below the melody note), and usually one (maybe two) notes in the LH.

Top



Moderator:  sharpsandflats 
What's Hot!!
JOIN Us on Our New Piano Tour of Europe!
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
Piano Books
-------------------
panic
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Bring Your Piano To Life
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
(ad) GROTRIAN
GROTRIAN Pianos
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Recent Posts
OT Paging Jerry Groot (and any one else living in the Northland)
by Diane...
05/28/12 10:47 AM
This week: Chicago Amateur Piano Competition, Keys to City
by pianoloverus
05/28/12 10:43 AM
Samuil Feinberg the composer
by bennevis
05/28/12 10:37 AM
Kawai new model imminent - CA-65 replacing CA-63 ?
by McBuster
05/28/12 10:35 AM
Headphone Advice:Reference 'Phones or Not? Open or Closed?
by anotherscott
05/28/12 10:27 AM
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Virtual Piano Chords



 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |
 
PianoSupplies.com


Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| Del.icio.us |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2012 Piano World all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission