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#1778344 - 10/27/11 06:55 PM NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10)
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4270
Loc: Northern NJ
NSFW! - You must be 18 or older to view this thread! - NSFW!

Piano World forum member "Jdiggity1" was recently schooled in multiculturalism via a run-in with the wildly different wall voltage "standards" (i.e. hazardous legacy) used in various countries. He was lured into this rocky scenario, nay entrapped, by another charming divergence of said countries, that insidious and overly complex melange of market protection mechanisms and taxation schemes found at the various borders, which tends to jack import retail prices sky high. The full tale of woe is recounted here.

Jdiggity's pain is our gain, however - he took many high quality photos of his Kawai MP10 in the buff after the electrician got it naked (but then had to go home to get his soldering iron, likely story) and posted them at Imageshack so we could all leer and drool together. Let's take a lascivious look!


Here is the top of the case flipped over to show the innards. That's the trouble maker (power supply) on the left, the pitch & mod wheels on the right, the front panel display / control printed wiring boards (PWBs) at center, the "brain board" PWB above them at center, and some misc. PWBs at the upper right.


The power supply - the big chunk of iron at the fore clearly indicates that this is an older linear design. Upper center is where the IEC power (mains) jack would normally be if it didn't flame out, to the right of that is the power switch, both of which are connected to a fuse and capacitor board on the right. AC then flows to the boat anchor (power transformer), the low voltage windings of which are routed to the board at upper left where rectification, filtering, and regulation occur. Note the big fat gray cable that terminates on the small PWB to the right, this is for the front panel USB thumb drive.

Anyway, say what you will about "wall warts" but the modern switching variety are a lot lighter and more efficient than these older designs, and they normally can handle any voltage found leaking from wall outlets the world 'round.


A close-up of the fuse and capacitor board. The usual way to handle multiple insane world voltages here is to play series / parallel games with the power transformer primary windings (bottom connector) along with resizing the fuse amperage rating.

Jdiggity adds: "The three vertical lines to the lower right of the board are the voltage selector things, the middle line is the 120V 'option'. The electrician configured the board to process 240V with a simple solder job involving the far-right line there."


The linear regulator board. The large upright chip located at the bottom (behind the big electrolytic cap) is the full wave rectifier. The three regulator chips have no heatsinks, which is interesting. I wonder what that big rectifier and choke are up to?


The pitch & mod wheels seem to be using the pot shafts as their main bearings (not the best, but par for the course). The PWBs at center have I/O jacks and stuff on them, and there is a large analog board located above.


The large analog board. Many dual op-amps (NE5532N, 45800), several 8-to-1 analog switches (74HC4051), and some random transistors and caps. The center left connector has three stereo audio co-ax wires connected to it - these lead to the volume and line-in faders on the front panel. And there is a strangely empty connector at the upper right. From the high jumper count this looks like a single layer PWB.


There certainly are a lot of wiring harnesses in here! The left blue one goes to the LCD display board. There is another small I/O board located beneath the brain board.


Mmmm, brains! I see three large proprietary (house marked) QFPs. The two marked "Kawai K022-FP" appear in the MP6, as does the one marked "72030W200FP" (this may be marked "72030K200FP" on the MP6?). The two TSOP II chips marked "M12L2561616A" are 4M x 16 Bit x 4 Banks Synchronous DRAM, and these also reside on the MP6 brain board. In fact, if you look at the MP6 brain board, it seems to be identical to this, with a few minor component population differences. Finally, and apropos of nothing I suppose, a total of 12 screws are employed to hold this smallish board down - that's some serious fastening power!

To be continued... (PW only allows 8 pix/post)
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THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#1778345 - 10/27/11 06:56 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4270
Loc: Northern NJ
Continued from previous post:


The key assembly. Note the slot formed between the center E & F keys, and the green wiring harness.


A close-up of the keys, which are individually numbered. I like the way Kawai locates the pivot point farther back for the black keys like real pianos do, which helps to even out the mechanical advantage. The keys appear to be solid wood, with pins and felt lined slots for the pivots. I assume the resting heights can be adjusted via paper washers under the keys at the pins?


Side view of the key mechanism, with tape measure to show key pivot locations.


The highest key depressed. Let-off feel is provided by a piece of rubber that a prong on the hammer must brush past. The hammer impact cushion is really thick.


Close-up of the mechanism. The hammers are plastic with steel weights riveted to the ends. Each hammer has an adjustable jack in contact with the back of the key. An inclined PWB holds the ubiquitous rubber switches which are activated by the hammers. The rubber & prong let-off mechanism is clearer here. Note the highly complex one-piece aluminum extrusion holding everything together - it even forms the hinge for the hammers!

Hats off to Jdiggity for these most excellent nekid pichures!
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1778352 - 10/27/11 07:13 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1418
Look at that action! That is exactly why the RM3 is the so impressive. It looks much like a shrunken down acoustic piano action. Thanks for sharing!
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#1778402 - 10/27/11 09:22 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
That action is indeed impressive looks like a real Kawai piano actually.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1778410 - 10/27/11 09:36 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8384
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Canon EOS 60D - nice camera!
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1778421 - 10/27/11 09:48 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: Kawai James]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Canon EOS 60D - nice camera!


I see what you did there!
It's a ripper of a camera.
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1778451 - 10/27/11 10:44 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8384
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
For those not versed in Aussie:

http://www.word-detective.com/2011/01/28/ripper/

(I'm British, but was raised on a diet of Australian TV soaps, and therefore speak fluent Aussie.)
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1778459 - 10/27/11 11:00 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
egallego Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Spain
Dewster, not a good idea to use a switching regulator in an audio device like this.

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#1778470 - 10/27/11 11:25 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: Kawai James]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
For those not versed in Aussie:

http://www.word-detective.com/2011/01/28/ripper/

(I'm British, but was raised on a diet of Australian TV soaps, and therefore speak fluent Aussie.)


I can tell there will be more lessons to come! laugh
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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#1778518 - 10/28/11 01:13 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: egallego]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4270
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: egallego
Dewster, not a good idea to use a switching regulator in an audio device like this.

Hmm. I disagree. The switching frequency is usually way outside human hearing. You could have clocks alias down into the audio, but that's always something to consider in a digital audio device.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1778529 - 10/28/11 01:41 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
egallego Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Spain
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: egallego
Dewster, not a good idea to use a switching regulator in an audio device like this.

Hmm. I disagree. The switching frequency is usually way outside human hearing.

Not always (10Khz in some cases).

Anyways the power quality is way lesser, the web is full of examples, and you know, every hi-fi amplifier uses a linear power supply for a reason. Quick link:

http://www.amb.org/forum/thomass-beta24-build-t1178-20.html#p12536

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#1778532 - 10/28/11 01:44 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: egallego]
egallego Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Spain
Of course, without knowing the PSRR of the Kawai circuitry speaking about the power is useless. Other problem with SMPS is the electromagnetic field they generate, etc...

I for one, much prefer a linear power supply for professional audio, unless I have to use different voltages.

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#1778555 - 10/28/11 02:54 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2235
Loc: UK
Nice thread thanks to Dewster and Jdiggity.

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#1778583 - 10/28/11 04:52 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: egallego]
jve Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 52
Great photos, thanks so much for posting!

Originally Posted By: egallego
I for one, much prefer a linear power supply for professional audio, unless I have to use different voltages.

For appliances with lots of exposed analogue circuitry, such as a mixer, I too would consider using a linear power supply. But for a DP, which does all processing in the digital domain and then converts to analogue at the output jack, switch mode supplies are perfectly okay. The analogue circuits in a DP consume so little current it's quite easy to filter the supply lines using passive components (unlike a mixer or power amp).

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#1778601 - 10/28/11 06:51 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5260
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Great photos! Thanks for posting.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

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#1778817 - 10/28/11 01:48 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: Kawai James]
blueston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 271
Loc: MA, USA
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

(I'm British, but was raised on a diet of Australian TV soaps, and therefore speak fluent Aussie.)


I KNEW IT!!!! grin

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#1778842 - 10/28/11 02:16 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: Kawai James]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3331
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
For those not versed in Aussie:

http://www.word-detective.com/2011/01/28/ripper/

(I'm British, but was raised on a diet of Australian TV soaps, and therefore speak fluent Aussie.)


Well, stone the flamin' crows!

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#1778854 - 10/28/11 02:27 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2325
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Rack off you dag...me too...teenage years spent marvelling at Neighbours and the like. I'm sure it was the Aussies that first thought it might be a good idea to paint walls brown. All the sets had brown walls, especially Sons and Daughters.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1778875 - 10/28/11 02:59 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
GoatRider Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 460
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
So is this similar to the action inside an ES6?
_________________________
- Benton Jackson. Permanent piano novice.
Kawai RX-2 #2555861 in Satin Walnut
Kawai ES6

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#1779050 - 10/28/11 07:22 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
reza Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Tehran, Iran
Do you think there would be enough room to put a Nord Piano sound engine (bain) board inside this? May be it is possible to have a two character piano in one case.

Thanks for sharing smile

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#1779059 - 10/28/11 07:42 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8384
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
GoatRider, no the ES6 uses Kawai's AHA IV-F plastic key action, with an appearance similar to that of most Yamaha and Roland actions.

reza, nice idea, although I'd be more interested in putting a microATX motherboard in there and running Ivory.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1779063 - 10/28/11 07:46 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: EssBrace]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8384
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Rack off you dag...me too...teenage years spent marvelling at Neighbours and the like. I'm sure it was the Aussies that first thought it might be a good idea to paint walls brown. All the sets had brown walls, especially Sons and Daughters.


Alas, 'Sons and Daughters' was a little before my time. I recall my mother watching it quite frequently...wasn't it shot in brown and white?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1779072 - 10/28/11 07:59 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: Kawai James]
reza Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 77
Loc: Tehran, Iran
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

reza, nice idea, although I'd be more interested in putting a microATX motherboard in there and running Ivory.
x


Yes, that would be also a nice idea. I have a tendency toward Nord. It should be something about the color. I am sorry for your leg by the ways. I wish you can return to your daily cyclings soon. Take care.

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#1779103 - 10/28/11 09:22 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: reza]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8384
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: reza
I am sorry for your leg by the ways. I wish you can return to your daily cyclings soon. Take care.


Thanks! Actually, that injury happened last summer (wow, how time flies...). It's much better now, although the ankle still feels a little 'loose' and can swell up during damp/moist weather.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1781508 - 11/02/11 12:41 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: egallego]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4270
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: egallego
Anyways the power quality is way lesser, the web is full of examples, and you know, every hi-fi amplifier uses a linear power supply for a reason. Quick link:

http://www.amb.org/forum/thomass-beta24-build-t1178-20.html#p12536

I took a quick look at the quick link. Not to rag on them, but that's DIY people doing DIY stuff.

I have an Echo Mia soundcard inside my PC case (a fairly harsh digital environment) and it functions very well with a nice low noise floor, rooming right next to a whopping 450W switching supply. Nothing says you can't do a bit of analog filtering if necessary, and the higher frequency the noise the easier and less expensive it is to filter.

Also:
1. How many of us throughout these modern times have not been plagued by 60Hz hum?
2. Who among us wants an extra ~3 lbs of iron inside their purportedly portable keyboard?

Give it a few years and very few hi-fi amplifiers will use non-switching power supplies - it makes little sound quality or monetary sense to rectify high power 60Hz anymore.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1782154 - 11/03/11 02:12 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
egallego Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Spain
Hehe, give it a few years and every DP will be using modeling without stretching and looping smile

I wonder how did you measure the noise, but not even NwAvGuy tries to claim that using a switching power supply is a good idea. You'll see that is generalized. Name a manufacturer (either DIY of commercial) who is using or advocates a switching power supply for headphone amplifiers.

And IMHO you shouldn't underestimate DIYers. Some are very bad but some are the best in the class.

Of course, without knowing the PSRR of the amplifier all the discussion is useless. Amplifiers that have to use a lot of power may have extremely high PSRR (very expensive and complex) or use other schemas like active ground, etc...

Given that the MP-10 has a headphone amplifier on it, I much prefer it using a linear power supply.

60 Hz hum is a different topic completely.

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#1782316 - 11/03/11 11:08 AM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: egallego]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4270
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: egallego
Hehe, give it a few years and every DP will be using modeling without stretching and looping smile

For various reasons I highly doubt that, though I certainly hope for it to come to pass.

Originally Posted By: egallego
And IMHO you shouldn't underestimate DIYers. Some are very bad but some are the best in the class.

Some are quite good, but they tend to be few and far between. And no offense intended, but I tend to steer clear of the ones discussing things like headphone amplifiers.

Originally Posted By: egallego
60 Hz hum is a different topic completely.

Huh? It's power supply noise after all - though most of us have become accustomed to it and so tolerate it to some degree in our audio equipment.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1782448 - 11/03/11 03:26 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
egallego Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Spain
Originally Posted By: dewster

Originally Posted By: egallego
60 Hz hum is a different topic completely.

Huh? It's power supply noise after all - though most of us have become accustomed to it and so tolerate it to some degree in our audio equipment.


60 Hz hum is electromagnetic noise coming from the transformer, and indeed it is different in nature than power ripples coming from rectification or switching noise.

Anyways there is no question that if you tolerate 60Hz hum then we have different objectives and thinking about audio quality. In most of the cases killing 60/50 Hz hum is really easy.

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#1789690 - 11/15/11 08:15 PM Re: NEKID PICHURES!! (Kawai MP10) [Re: dewster]
Jdiggity1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Newcastle, NSW Australia
Originally Posted By: dewster
And there is a strangely empty connector at the upper right.


That is the connection for the headphone output. It needed to be unplugged in order to remove the keybed.
I have just been inside another MP-10, and it looks like it may have a cracked circuit board - the board the controls the buttons to the right of the screen. The midi and transport buttons will not work, and the 'sub' instrument section buttons function, but only some of them light up. Do you think this issue sounds like a crack could be the culprit? I can supply more pictures if you like.
_________________________
Current: Kawai MP10, Alesis Q88
Has Been: Yamaha P85

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