Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Having trouble fingering chords

Hi Everyone,

Some phisiological and/or technique concerns:

I'm practicing learning chords and I'm having a really tough time getting some of them to sound even. For some reason, the 3 notes of a triad will not sound at the same time because somehow one or more fingers won't press the keys simultaneously with others. Is this just a question of practice or strengthening some fingers? At times, I practice scales and arpeggios as "finger exercises" and thought this would be adequate. Maybe it is not enough?

Although I move my body and position my arm so that the keys of the chord are pretty much in line with my hand, I find that sometimes my hand will end up playing at an angle (particularly the pinky finger) when I hit the keys. I do move into the keys quite a lot but some of my fingers will not fit between keys so I'm forced to remain on the area that is closest to the beginning of a black key. Somehow I don't think my hand is then always positioned correctly. What are your thoughts on this?

I find that to get the most evenness, especially when going from one chord to another in a short leap, I need to tense (almost lock!) my fingers and hand so they work as one otherwise the next chord falls apart. Surely this tensing/tension can't be right?

On the question of fingering, it is often seen and mentioned to use fingers 1, 3 and 5 but on some chords I find it better to use 1, 2 and 5 or sometimes 1, 2 and 4 or other suitable combnations. Apparently the thumb or pinky on a black key is a "no no" but I find it easier at times to use the thumb on a black key. I've read conflicting answers about "proper" chord fingering - some say it is pretty much set in stone (1,3,5) while others say "finger it out for yourself". What has worked best for you?

John

1-3-5 works best for me. When do you find 1-2-5 easier? Tension is surely not the solution. Practice slowly depressing all three notes at the same time, relaxing your fingers after pressing all the way down. Yes, I imagine that scales, arpeggios, and finger exercises will help.

I use what works for me, and particularly when I'm going up and down using different inversions there are times when the previous fingering leaves my hand more naturally shaped for something besides 1-3-5 on the next chord.

It's great that you can hear that the keys don't sound at the same time - took me awhile to notice that on mine. Sometimes a very slight rotation towards the pinky will help put the pinky tip closer to being in a line with the other fingertips so they all descend together. But I'm no expert, so hopefully others will have some ideas, too.

Cathy

John, you say your Kurzweil K2500XS is "rebuilt" I am wondering here and just throwing this out as a possibility, could it actually be a mechanical issue with the rebuilt keyboard?

Yes. Your brain is sending 3 signals down 2 nerve paths to play 3 notes simultaneously. To get it to all work, the fingers will need to be completely independent. I don't worry about notes not hitting simultaneously for a beginner student since it's just a matter of learning dexterity. But I will usually give them finger exercises. Here's one I use to test independence.

Place your 5 fingers on 5 white keys (c-g works), then press each key one at a time and see what happens. Do this slowly so you can really pay attention. When other fingers move, that's a sign that those 2 fingers are "connected" and you'll have to work to make them independent.


Sounds like you've got a good start, moving your whole arm up and down to line up a chord. When your pinky isn't in an ideal position, it's always best to move your hand forward rather than rotate it. Cathy is right, some chords require a little rotation, but keep this to a minimum to avoid carpel tunnel problems (nerves get pinched). Sliding between black keys gets easier too.



Yep, that's not right. You shouldn't be tensing your fingers that much. It's probably a sign of overcompensating for the lack of finger independence. If you lock your fingers and use your arm/hand to play the chord, yes, it will sound at the same time, but you will lose expressiveness, not to mention hurt your hand in the process.


You will get conflicting answers on this one. Traditionalists say there is a proper finger for everything. I say, it depends on the thickness of your fingers, size of hand, length of fingers, etc. As long as there isn't a big stretch on the fingers, it's probably an acceptable fingering. As you get better, you may be playing 4 note chords, which totally messes up the 1-3-5 theory. Just use what's comfortable and when you find it, use that consistently.


I don't know how advanced his chord knowledge is, but 1-2-5 is usually the best starting point for a first inversion chord.

In my opinion, nothing helps your finger strength and coordination like the Hanon exercises.

I just resumed playing piano after a twenty-year absence. My finger coordination was all over the place, and my left pinky finger was all but useless. I started doing the first 8 of the Hanon exercises regularly for twenty minutes each day and it's made an ENORMOUS difference after a few weeks.

+1 The first section of Hanon is full of exercises that give all 5 fingers on each hand an equal workout.

I don't thing that thumb or pinky on a black key is a no-no. If you are playing in a flat key you will encounter plenty of chords where the thumb, pinky or both are on black keys, for example Eb7 in root position.

The fingering you use will often depend on what you play before or after. If you play CEG ( a C chord ) followed by CFA ( an F chord ) using your right hand it will be easiest if you use 124 for the C and 135 for the F.

I learned 1-2-5 for first inversion in RH, but second inversion in LH. Governed by if there's a fourth on the pinky side of the hand in a major or minor triad, it's played with 2-5 (again, as a fingering to start from, as you say.)

Hi Rostosky,

The keybed is not the problem. I've rebuilt it last year and it is holding up nicely. I've been practicing intensely on this keyboard for almost a year, I know that thing so well now that I can detect any problem with any key. The problem really is a physiological thing. You did have a good idea to ask though.

John

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your enlightening reply


What I did for a while as an exercise was to put 5 fingers on 5 white keys, press them down all at once and then practicing lifting/pressing back one finger at a time for several repetitions while keeping the other 4 fingers firmly pressed on the keys. I haven't done that for some time now since after doing this for months I didn't have any problems playing scales and simple music so I figured all was well. Now, doing your above mentioned "test", it turns out that my 4-th and 5-th fingers in LH are problematic and do move quite often together or one will "twitch" the other slightly. RH 3-rd finger seems to have a mind of its own once in a while




Ah, so that's what's going on!

You mentioned fingering consistency (1,3,5 or other suitable combos). This is another part of my puzzle... I'm trying to make sure I remain constantly consistent when I practice. I'll try things out then conclude it makes sence and then stick to it. But I find I do get mixed up at times and either "crash and burn" or need to pause and think before resuming. I guess it will take some time!


I'm not very far advanced as such. I had chosen to spend the better part of my daily practice time over the course of one year, to learn all the scales, develop proper posture and technique (including really listening to what I was doing), learn the theory, do active listening, transcribe tunes, ear training & interval/chord recognition and so forth. This has been time well spent Now I'm starting to tackle learning chords and their inversions, cadences, etc. Got quite a few memorized so far.

However, on the down side, I haven't played much music or pieces and that means I'm doing a lot of learning in "isolation" from the context of real songs. I was aiming to build a very solid foundation of the basics before actually starting to tackle real pieces. I'm able to listen to some songs I know well and then play parts of them back fairly accurately so its mostly a play by ear thing so far. I'm dead slow at reading music and that may be a "turn-off" for me and I know I need to get past this obstacle and carry on if I want to get anywhere. I noodle around a lot and make interesting discoveries from what I've learned so far and have bits and pieces of motives and melodies jotted down for future compositional work. This helps me understand the bigger picture somewhat but I think its time I left the strictly technical work and started working on real music, yes?

John

I'm guessing that scales is not enough. I was afraid I might have to get into some Hanon stuff. I've read a lot of conflicting opinions about the usefulness of Hanon. Plus I don't have a teacher at this time and I wouldn't want to mess myself up with doing Hanon improperly.

I often use the Chinese Boading Balls which help a lot with dexterity but not necessarily strength.

John

Yep, I know that for some scales or passages, one canot avoid thumb or pinky on black keys and I'm comfortable with that. My interrogation about this was because I read that in a classical music context this was considered an improper form of playing.

John

Try to understand what you are playing instead of memorizing a bunch of chords. It will help you greatly in the future. Memorizing chords off a chord chart may sound like a quick shortcut, but it could limit your playing in the future when you venture out of those root position chords. (Ask a guitar player about chord charts and how they are limited as well)


YES! Learning in a vacuum isn't going to get you great results. I believe in applying what you are learning right away to real music. Working exercises is fine, but I think you'll get more enjoyment, and actually faster knowledge, by applying it to real music.

And another (I guess +2?) on the Hanon. Whenever I have a job that will require great dexterity, I always hit Hanon hard and am always amazed at how much more accurate it makes my playing, even after all these years. Don't let them scare you, the first few are really easy.

There's no way to do the Hanon exercises improperly. Go have a look at them on the website I linked to. Each exercise has all the fingering clearly marked. Just play some exercises (I do #4 to #8 so far) a few times each day and you'll feel the difference. The Hanon exercises are an international standard for improving the fingers, and have been for over a hundred years now.

Hi Brian,

Perhaps I've used an inadequate term to describe all of what is going on when I learn something. Just as when I learned the scales: I first started with their history, then the sounds of tones & semitones, then the formulas for major and formulas for minor forms. Of course, the result is that I`ll never be stuck with scales because I learned how they are made instead of just memorizing them one after the other. I`m applying the same strategy for chords: M=4 semitones,3 semitones; m=3,4; aug=4,4; Dim=3,3; and so on. Then taking a key (ex: C) and practicing I ii iii IV V vi vii(dim) I. And around the circle of 5-ths (C G D A etc). Theory aside, some physical memorisation also needs to take place - practicing on the instrument.





Call me weird but I actually enjoy playing scales and doing technical exercises, analysing postures, hand positions, etc... it seems to satisfy the very rational techie part of me that likes to take things apart and learn how they work Intuitively I`ve always known that I should play more "real music" and less exercises but I carry on only because I want so much to build a firm theoretical & practical base first.

What would also really help at this point is to find a teacher.

John

That might be your best bet. Someone you can pick their brain. You seem to be doing things the right way and not falling into the traps that most beginners fall into. So maybe it's time to find someone who can help you understand better all that you know. Knowing theory and applying it are 2 different things.

Good luck!

Hi Brian, Sorry for late reply,

Yeah, its like I have all these building blocks and not always a clue as to what to do with them. I had a set plan pretty much set up for a year and have achieved my objective but now its like "Ok, where to from here" kind of thing. Motivation is not a problem, I would spend the rest of my life full time on music if I could

John

You've learned a very important lesson here. No matter how much theory you know, it doesn't guarantee that you'll be able to play. Application of knowledge is the tough part.

Good luck! Let us know if you have a breakthrough.

John in Montreal, what kind of music do you want to play?

Can you read music and play a single melody line with one hand?

Do you want to play from written music or by ear, or both?