Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards choosing the first DP for a family of beginner musicians !

Hi all,

I need your help to choose a first DP for my daughter (7) and also for the rest of the family...

I leave in France (I tell you that to be excused for my poor english, and also for the model and prices of DP I find locally).

I used to play piano, just a couple of years, a long (very long, 30 years !) time ago, when I was young. I just remember the basics of music theory, and "some" ghost feeling of the entry model upright Kawai acoustic piano of my parents. I am also a self (and poorly) educated acoustic guitar player. My son (10) is also a musician, he plays pocket trumpet and just started acoustic guitar (me as a teacher), couple of months ago.

My daughter (7) just began piano lessons with regular teacher, and she is not really engaged in practicing. She says she likes piano, but I hardly manage to get her exercices get done... She has a cheap "toy" keyboard (49 "mini keys" for children fingers, without any realistic action ). I fear she misses a "real" instrument to get "engaged" and "excited" in this new music adventure (and also miss the right "feeling" for her fingers), and also, I fear she could give up in next couple of month (to young to know exactly what she want to do). So now, you know the whole background...

Because of the risk she give up, I don't want to spend too much money (between 500€ and 1000€). But, I think, even if she stops lessons, a cheap versatile DP with "arranger" function (and perhaps portable), could be a good companion device for my family of "amateur" musicians (I think I will try to play a little, at least in a "self" teaching mode at the beginning, I am sure my children will "play" (in a "having fun" sens) with it too from time to time, so it is ok). But still, I don't want to compromise too much the "real piano feeling" thing of the device. I think that if she becomes serious at playing, I will take an acoustic piano, or a high end DP, but even in this case, keeping the first instrument as a portable "stage piano" or "arranger keyboard" could be smart choice, no ?

This post is rather long, so I stop here and will continue in another one, to give the status of my buying process so far...

I continue...

Me and my daughter can't really play and compare experiences (too dummies), but even, I have some "feeling" recalls when I stroke the keys...

I tried (quite quickly, only indicating prices) all these models in music store (without headphone), so more focused on action and expressivity feeling for the moment :
- Korg sp170 (500€)
- Korg sp250 (700€ with stand)
- Casio px 130/135 (500/600€)
- Casio px 330 (700€)
- Casio px 730/735 (850/950€)
- Casio px 7 and 830 (I liked very much the "ivory touch" improvement, but too expensive)
- Roland fp4 (too expensive, 1400€)
- Roland f110 (1000€)
- yamaha P95 (550€)
- yamaha P155 (1000€)
- yamaha dgx 640 (850€)
- kawai cl 36 (900€)

The action I dislike the most is Korg, too "keyboard" for me. I don't like very much at first try the Roland, I found it a bit "spongy" for my taste (soft, and slow response), but all vendors told me I was wrong, so perhaps I need to give it another chance. I don't like the P95 (GHS), I found it "inexpressive" (cold and artifical) , I prefer the P155, I like how the key are "guided", and I like the sensation at bottoming of the stroke (I find the feel "like a real one" but never the less, I find this "natural" touch a little too "heavy", and not enough responsive for my taste, "old instrument" style I would say, but still pleasant). I have a problem with casio. The first time, I like very much the action, I found the sound very dynamic, and the touch very sensitive and responsive. But, at the second try (actually after trying P155), I found it a bit too light, and worse, I noticed the "lateral" motion (degree of freedom in lateral axis), I dislike very much (I see also read complains about build quality of casio keys on forums). All in one for casio , quite pleasant and expressive play, but somehow not completly "realistic" and a bit "scarying" about reliability. The action I prefer is the kawai (I tested "by the way"), immediate love. I also like very much the "ivory touch" of Kawai and Casio high end models (strangely, the casio PX7 action seems a bit better compare to other casio, possible ?) .

My short list taking all into account (features, versatility, action feeling, sound quality, price) :
- casio px130 (best bang for the bucks),
- casio px330 (versatile),
- yamaha dx 640 (brand),
- yamaha p155 (no risk),
- kawai cl 36 ("coup de coeur", key feeling and design).

In term of feeling, sound, spec, and price, I think the px 330 is the most balanced choice (and I think I prefer it to yamaha DX 640 in its category). But I must admit, that for a "study" instrument for my daugther, the P155 seems the more "appropriate" and "conservative" choice, because of key action, and also because of made quality and reputation. The unexpected thing, is the Kawai, I like the feeling, and the sounds, as well as the stylish modern and compact cabinet. So now, I don't know how to go ahead...

So, can someone help to choose ? Do you think px 135 can remove mey key actions concerns (couldn't test so far the new models) ? Do you think casio will quickly launch a px 335 too ? Can some one confirm my "good feeling" about Kawai (despite less mentioned in forums)? What Kawai model can give me some "arranger" function ?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Hello Zack. I think you've made a good appraisal of the pianos you tried. Regarding Roland: I think Roland make some of the best keyboard actions but the one you were playing, f110, is terrible. You are quite right when you say it's 'spongy'. It is exactly that which made me decide not to get the F110.

I think, from what I know, and even more the general consensus on this forum, the best one would be Yamaha p155 - it's in a different class to most of the others in this price range. But you will need to arrange a stand and pedal board if it is to be a permanent family piano, I think.

But since you have had a chance to demo the Kawai, I would say buy the one which has the best feel/sound combination for you. And if it IS the Kawai, then the visual design will be a nice bonus!....Give them both another try and go with your heart.

....oh and by the way, don't worry about the reputation of Kawai - this brand has a big and fiercely loyal following on this forum amongst many pianists - including some very experienced ones...

I didn't like neither the action of the fp4, despite an evident "touch quality". I think I could get accustomed to, but curiously, I didn't find the feeling so "close" to a real piano. But I like the design and the sound of this DP (but too expensive) !



I liked the action, but I was not so "convinced" by the sound, but the conditions was not good. Seems less dynamic and brilliant (need to strike more to get the sound out), but once again, not really careful listening.


Good advice, I agree it is important to love its instrument. But I am not so confident about my feeling, and my perception change at each try, need to discuss and try several times...


so, I am not alone

Still need to decide if I need to consider "stage" and "arranger" piano or not (rather long term concern), or focus to straight / short term home "practising" piano... In that case your perfectly right, P155 and CL-36 seems best options...

Thank a lot for you help Toddy...

Ask 10 different PW users here and you will probably get 50 different answers about which DP to buy.

Of the portable DP's you listed, my preference was the Korg SP250. For me nothing came close (sound and feel) in the price bracket. The P95 was a close second.

The truth is that all the digital piano's you listed are fine for home use. All are of a decent quality. Having said that, (if circumstances allow) my vote goes to an acoustic Piano. I know it's not what you asked about in your OP.

I feel it may possibly be the best encouragement your 7yo daughter could get to continue with her piano playing.

To be honnest, I didn't really try the sp250, assuming the same feeling as for sp170 I dislike (i didn't imagine 2 technolgy at the same price tag). Actually, I thought sp 250 was like sp170 but with more complete package and better amp, but with older technology (sampling). So I did a mistake here...



Well, my choice is not done, I need to discuss with others, because this is a lot of money, considering so far, no one is really "engaged" / "passionated" in piano in my family. Nothing to justify such a spending (expect me perhaps, but for nostalgia )... Other cases, will be simple for me (I am able to put more money if I am sure we will use the feature and enjoy playing instrument) !

For example, not having a "clean" and "confortable" console in my interior, definitely annoy me... So I am pretty sure, I will add an "integrated" wood stand, possibly with pedals, even if I go for a portable (for example yamaha dx 640 with its "computer style" is too "ugly" for me, and "vintage style" of sp250 is "border line" too...)

I know (after reading here and there), my short list is a decent selection. But I not completly trust my feeling judgment, and, I am not sure about the best "plan" for my daughter and the rest of the family.

I have seen so much people loving their obviously "broken" and old upright acoustic. When I tried DP I was shocked by the quality, at least it "sounds" like a concert grand, and even not perfect, no big defect neither for the keys.

I also know, when you are musician, you like to "try" and "play" different instrument. I also know children can get bored with too "academic" studies, they need to have fun, including with others in a band. So having a versatile piano capable of being a :
- "stage device" (portable and "aranger"),
- "studioing and recording device" (be master keyboard for electronic music and your computer)",
- "having the drums and bass loops" to have the band at home,
..sounded a smart move for me.

But, I agree (after spending some time in music store), I can't compromise too much the real feeling and sound of acoustic piano whatever the real + of other features (at least for me, because I grew up with one I loved, but I don't know for my daughter who have no "reference" so far).

But also true that the more I look for real feeling, and the more the price rise... At a certain point, I think I mistake. I am not sure [1000..1500€] for a bad "copy" is a good thing, considering [2000...2500€] could get a descent accoustic.

Making compromise is not good ! But what is the compromise ? What will be the major use of DP in my family ? Should I just consider the present needs of my daughter ?

And probably at the end I will end with 2 piano, an accoustic, and probably a portable and "aranger" one, if my daughter decide to continue.

So I don't know...

Any one with a family of beginners musicians, who did experience some dilemma in choosing a piano for the whole family ?

Finally how does turn out the story, what is the most important in their case ?

Versatility of a DP, love of real acoustic instrument, what the most motivating to continue its way in exploring music lands ?

You might also consider renting an acoustic piano with the option to buy it later if your daughter becomes more motivated. I quickly searched google for "louer piano" and "location de piano" and found a couple of sites that seem to offer such a service.

I don't quite have the family story but started quite recently as an adult beginner. I was not sure when I started how committed I would be so limited my budget and looked for 'good value'. I chose a PX330 with wooden stand. The key action is quite good, the piano sound is very good through headphones or external speakers but not so good using the internal speakers. The versatility and features are very good. I had an early one and had some loose keys develop but I still enjoyed playing and practise. After a year I was committed and sold the PX330 and upgraded. Maybe I made a small financial loss, but I played it for a year. Actually I kept if for 6 months after I had upgraded because it was just fun to play. As someone else has said that's just a personal opinion or experience.

Hi. I have 2 young boys the older one just started lessons a few months ago (he is 7). Ever since we got our upright acoustic he has been drawn to it every day. We also hAve a 61 key keyboard right beside it. Though he does play around with the keyboard sometimes he does all his playing on the acoustic. Recently he learned to play hands together with both hands coming down on notes at the same time. The first time he did that and heard the big booming sound was just last week. His astonished look on his face that he made that wonderful sound was a joy to behold. He smiled from ear to ear and practiced even harder the rest of the week even jumping ahead in his book to see what other songs he can try just to hear those beautiful sounds! I may be wrong but I don't think he would have been quite as awed by the sound hitting those same 3 notes on a digital. So motivation wise I vote for an acoustic. (maybe renting one for awhile to see if your kids react differently to the acoustic)

But...as I too am taking piano lessons as an adult beginner I am now looking for a digital to add the ability to play with headphones on the evenings. So ultimately we will end up with 2 pianos. My husband says tO use our little keyboard but I am now more sensitive to how the keys feel. It is looking more and more that my budget for the digital will need to be around $1000 for me to get a decent keyboard action. My personal favorites in the short time that I have been playing are as follows. The key to note is that the longer I play on the acoustic the more I expect from the digital and yes the leap in price to get better quality can be a bit hard. Anyway here are my favorites. All prices are listed as Canadian dollars.

Under $1000
- Korg SP-250, $800 (I liked the feel of the keys and the sounds and it is a bonus it comes with a built in stand that looks flimsy but is very solid and a pedal)

- Yamaha P95, $600 (an ok keyboard, lighter than the Korg, ok sounds. You will need to budget for a stand though)

Over $1000

- Yamaha P155, $999 (a super nice keyboard, and good sound, but I put this in the over $1000 since you will need a good stand for it)

- Kawai CN23, $1295 (a super nice keyboard, and nice sounds, comes complete with stand and 3 pedals and looks the nicest of the 3)

Even though my husband wasn't too sure about us having 2 pianos in the house he told me just yesterday he feels it better to spend a bit more and be more happy and drawn to playing the instrument than trying to save a bit and being completely turned off by a less than satisfactory keyboard. Of course everybody has a budget and I must admit I am keeping mine as low as possible because I'd rather save for and spend more on upgrading the acoustic in the future.

Yes it's a solution to avoid loosing the money, if she gives up.

I will find easily the service (I leave in a big city in France). I don't know exactly the price, but I see I can buy a entry level model for monthly fee 40€*60monthes (=2500€ or 2000€ if I pay cash) :

http://www.pianoshop.fr/PIANOS_DROIT_KEILBERG_ETUDE_NL__p34,oasc,pg0.htm

Probably I can have a better quality piano with "pure" rental approach, I don't know I imagine in the [20 .. 60]€ range. Perhaps with an additional "delivery" service ?

That means something like [300 .. 400]€ / year of rental. So entry level DP is 2 year of rental fees. This is why I initially targeted the sub 1000€ price tag.

Anyway, this is an option when I have decided that "accoustic experience" is better, than "digital experiences". Something I haven't done yet...

Thanks

The only thing I have to say about acoustic uprights is you have to be careful because you could easily get something that is worse than a DP of comparable price in terms of action. Now maybe they need proper tuning etc, but the ones I've tried are pretty terrible and uneven in comparison to my MP6, which has the same action as the Kawai CL36 I believe.

Hi Zack, I understand your dilema as I went through that myself only a few months ago. I edited my above post to add my list of favorite dps. Also, I wanted to add why not take your kids with you when you look at some pianos. See how they react to all the different ones. Both my boys kepts being drawn to the larger grand piano acoustics (even though by nature they are so into gadgets and buttons I was convinced they would be drawn to the digitals (especially those with all the extras). But I was surprised that I was wrong.

Yes, PX330 is a good balance for a versatile DP in my opinion, I also tested casio with "loose" key, keys don't seemed firmly guided in stoke axis... But I agree action is quite good. I see in this forum (kawai james if i recall correctly), saying 335 version will fix that, and make it a "winner" in its its category. I think I can wait a couple of months more before buying, don't know if 335 will be in store for christmas season in europe (PX135 are there, but couldn't tried one so far). Anybody in the known ?


Ouch, that quick ! My plan was to get her happy for 2/3 years with an entry level DP... What is average time a 7 year old, to be limited/frustrated by a casio PX330 or yamaha P155 experience ? If someone has opinion, very interted in...

Thanks a lot for your inputs !

Hi Zoe, yes it is exactly the dilemna, thanks a lot for your story. Very helpfull. You re the second person to advice to try the sp250, so I will go back to store and try it. Here in France, Yamaha is expensive, P155 is about 1400 canadian $. For example almost the double the korg price ! So your advice is rather to start with accoustic, and don't compromise to much key actions for a DP...

I know what you mean about needing a piano, even if no one is seriously studying. For example by 13 year old daughter says she has no interrest in learning piano. she is more into singing but still I find her picking out tunes with one finger from sheet music so she can match the pitch. I'm a beginner guitar player and I some times need to use the piano to figure out why some some guitar chord diagram "works" It's always obvious when you put your fingers on a piano keyboard that (say) it's a major 7th chord. I think this is why that if you are a music major in collage, not matte which instrument you play they make you study piano too at least through early intermediate level.

Along those samelines, I think if you are leaning another instrument part of that is learning to play with others. and arranger keyboard can help. But computer software can do the same thing. I can drag loops onto a track, set the tempo and have it repeated. I like the user interface of the software better then any arranger keyboard I've seen. That is just me. arranger keyboard functions are now available on an iPad. For a student, they are really just a fancy and much more engaging metronome

I have a computer and a Yamaha P155 piano. Between the two I think that is enough. The P155 really is just a piano. It has other functions but they are secondary.

So you might go thatroute. get a good digital piano and plan on using a computer with MIDI for other non-piano functions -- works for me.

Thanks Chris, for your experience. For me (not my daughter) as a guitar player, and fan of computers and electronic music, I am pretty convinced with your way. But I need to consider children too, I think the older (10 yo), is interested in "ensemble" feature and aranging, but I am not sure computer interface is appealing for him for the moment... But I agree, it is a solution that can "work"...

Agreed ! I will bring them with me next time, I also will take my headphones to focus more on sound.


Same conclusions, I prefer Yamaha P155 and Kawai CL-36 key action... But lacking electronic features (the Casio PX330 has)... But I agree with Chris I can set up a computer to do this later...

Thanks again... Seems to narrow a little bit... I think there are 3 (+1) ways :

1) start with acoustic (rental) with buy option, and wait if DP is necessary (use computer and mini keyboard for other features)
2) start with casio PX330 (or better wait PX335 ?) for versatile usage, and later (2/3 years ?) add an accoustic
3) start with yamaha P155, and use MIDI and computer for extra features, buy an accoustic only if necessary, but later (3/4 years?)...
4) start with Kawai CL-36, because it is the one I liked the most, and try to find a logic that justify this buy later

Well, I discussed with my children this evening.

My daughter want a "real" piano.

My son would like one with "aranging" and "recording",and portable features, but want to have the real sound and feeling of piano. But a "real piano", is also fine.

So we look at brochure together. Good news, Yamaha CLP or Kawai CL are "real piano" !

We agree, the mini keyboard we have (49 mini keys, 100 sounds, 100 style), is still fun and OK for the moment for aranging stuff, or to be portable ! We decided to visit the music store tomorrow, but not sure it will be open. We agree christmas was good timeslot for a new piano and perhaps also a new trumpet, but they also want at least some toys, so we need to discuss more So far so good...

I also discussed with my wife, who want to keep a reasonable budget, and see practical advantage to DP over acoustic one (she is not musician).

Then I spent all evening and half of the night reading the forum, plus other site, comparing specs and also watching you tube demos of DP, etc... I also look some price of Kawai acoustic piano...

Well, right now, I think I prefer to start with a DP. I think, that from both feature and quality for the money, it will be a better choice for me. I think I will focus on casio PX330, yamaha P155 and Kawai CL-36.

Well, my prefered choices tonight :
1) buy Kawai CL-36 (I prefer over Yamaha P155 as a pure cabinet for home practising, key feeling, stylish compact console, budget advantage too: 900€ vs 1200€), and stay focused on "real piano"

2) buy Casio PX330, with with wood stand, for a mix of aranger, home practising and stage piano (and perhaps wait for PX335 to have improved key action), for the "versatile music choice"

Well, will see how the music store visit with children and headphone will change the thing...
Bye, i need to sleep now...

If you get a real piano, you need to factor in the cost of getting it tuned once or twice a year. Usually costs around $120-150 each time.