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#1777741 - 10/26/11 06:37 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
So MMM, if I'm at 100db max and I move the volume knob to 50%, that's only a 3db drop?

If the knob were accurately calibrated to power, that would be correct. Knobs aren't really calibrated like that, so this would be a "theoretical" knob.

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#1777748 - 10/26/11 06:51 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I'm curious, AnotherScott, when you're running the EV ZXA1, I presume you're not at max volume? So there's still some headroom?

If you're plugging into a powered speaker using a line input (no preamp), then you typically want the powered speaker at max volume (zero attenuation), and you control the levels from your keyboard and/or mixer... but of course, you can use those attenuators to bring it down if need be, in order to keep your upstream volume controls in a reasonable position in terms of their signal-to-noise ratios.

Bringing the volume down on an an amp does not increase headroom. If anything, it reduces it.

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#1777754 - 10/26/11 07:01 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: anotherscott]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3797
Loc: North Carolina
That's right ... for the theoretical knob.
Assuming such a knob, the 50% setting would be 10 dB below the max output. And the 25% setting would be 20 dB below max.
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
So MMM, if I'm at 100db max and I move the volume knob to 50%, that's only a 3db drop?
If the knob were accurately calibrated to power, that would be correct. Knobs aren't really calibrated like that, so this would be a "theoretical" knob.

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#1777765 - 10/26/11 07:18 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: anotherscott]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I'm curious, AnotherScott, when you're running the EV ZXA1, I presume you're not at max volume? So there's still some headroom?

If you're plugging into a powered speaker using a line input (no preamp), then you typically want the powered speaker at max volume (zero attenuation), and you control the levels from your keyboard and/or mixer... but of course, you can use those attenuators to bring it down if need be, in order to keep your upstream volume controls in a reasonable position in terms of their signal-to-noise ratios.

Bringing the volume down on an an amp does not increase headroom. If anything, it reduces it.


No, what I meant was that the EV ZXA1, still has some reserve for your typical indoor gigs? (whether done at line end or speakers).

I'm just saying that on my end, the Stagepas 300 is at max volume and max keyboard volume at the default gain setting of the keyboard.

The only reason I adjust the Master Gain on the keyboard is to allow the keyboard speakers to serve as a built in monitor (by lowering the volume on built in speakers). But it does tell me, I can't do a larger venue on the Stagepas 300, and definitely not outdoor.

From 113 (Stagepas) to 123db (EV), it would suggest at least double the power...I'm just verifying that with actual experience (meaning you're not running out of juice on the EV).
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#1777770 - 10/26/11 07:21 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: MacMacMac]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
That's right ... for the theoretical knob.
Assuming such a knob, the 50% setting would be 10 dB below the max output. And the 25% setting would be 20 dB below max.
Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
So MMM, if I'm at 100db max and I move the volume knob to 50%, that's only a 3db drop?
If the knob were accurately calibrated to power, that would be correct. Knobs aren't really calibrated like that, so this would be a "theoretical" knob.


Just a little confused about the Math MMM. Since these things are rated at 113-129db, movement at 10db at a time seems mathemetically disportionate...At some point, it will have to move larger to get to zero it would seem.
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#1777808 - 10/26/11 08:26 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1731
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Forget the math..use your ears. You're WAY over thinking this.......
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#1777855 - 10/26/11 10:19 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
That's the problem. Nothing to listen to. Buying sight unseen.
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#1777859 - 10/26/11 10:23 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
Dr Popper Offline
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Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
BTW - I've noticed that pros have a strong dislike for "Keyboard" amps. I just googled Motion Sound and it belongs in that category.



The KP500SN is different to all other "Keyboard Amps"
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Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1778186 - 10/27/11 01:34 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: Dr Popper]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
BTW - I've noticed that pros have a strong dislike for "Keyboard" amps. I just googled Motion Sound and it belongs in that category.



The KP500SN is different to all other "Keyboard Amps"


I was just checking that out Dr Pop. Expensive though...Especially since it's not that powerful (250watts per channel). But intriguing, nevertheless.

I was suprised how small it was. When I initially looked at the picture, I said, this is huge. I can't carry this. But it's tiny!

Do you have one of these?
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#1778202 - 10/27/11 01:53 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Expensive though...Especially since it's not that powerful (250watts per channel).

Another tip... When you're buying an integrated system (speaker and amp in a single unit), ignore wattage, it's basically meaningless. You were on the right track before, SPL is a much more useful spec. Depending on the efficiency of the speaker (which you can't change in an integrated unit), and the games manufacturers play (like QSC calling a K a 1000 watt unit because it was apparently cheaper for them to put the same 500 watt amp on the tweeter as the woofer even though most of that power will never be used)... wattage tells you pretty much nothing. For example, if a particular 1000 watt unit goes to 123 dB and some other 700 watt unit goes to 126, the 700 watt would play louder than the 1000 watt. This kind of scenario definitely can occur.

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#1778218 - 10/27/11 02:32 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
Thanks, anotherscott. Such word games. The MS didn't even have any published specs so the only thing you could use was the 250watts per channel.

Well, the Stagepas 300 is 300watts per channel and you know where that got me.
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#1778412 - 10/27/11 09:37 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: jazzwee


I was just checking that out Dr Pop. Expensive though...Especially since it's not that powerful (250watts per channel). But intriguing, nevertheless.

I was suprised how small it was. When I initially looked at the picture, I said, this is huge. I can't carry this. But it's tiny!

Do you have one of these?


Yeah I've been a big fan of the Motion Sound Amps for a while , now I won't lie one stage during my recent gig I used a pairs of QSC K8's and K12's as personal monitors for my feeds but if I was in a smaller band situation with less keyboards and I had to carry my own stuff I would have used the KP500SN for sheer portability. A friend of mine regularly plays on stage using the KP500SN as his main stage feed for his boards (a Roland RD and some old Kurzweil thing) and say's its enough for him.
That said I'd prefer a pair of proper speakers but given your budget of $1000 its tough. Have you tried the JBL EON515's ? nice big 15's @ 625w and about $600 ea .... I've heard good things. Go down to GC and check them out.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1778435 - 10/27/11 10:21 PM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3182
A pair of ZXA1 are cheaper and lighter than the KP500SN, though the KP500SN does have the convenience of being all-in-one including mixer functions. I've never heard one, though.

I've used a Roland SA-300 which is a combo along the same lines. It is very convenient sometimes, and it's easier to carry because it splits into two pieces for transport, and it ends up in a good position just putting it back together, you don't have to put it on any kind of stand or anything. I've used it as a one-piece for keyboards and PA in little duo/trio things, where I want to stay light and compact with super-fast full band setup. The sound quality is not nearly as good as the ZXA1, though.

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#1778502 - 10/28/11 12:42 AM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
The KP500SN is one piece at 43 lbs so that's like a keyboard. A little heavy.
One reason I liked my Stagepas 300 was that at 19lbs apiece, you don't have to lift anything with a weird angle, particularly from the back of a tall SUV.

So it looks, even just from a $$$ point of view, not counting the good reviews for piano, and assuming a stereo configuration, only the EV ZXA1 is in the budget.

I placed an order for 1 cab. And if it sounds good, I'll order the second one.

I'll get it at the end of next week and I'll be able to confirm opinions on it.

I appreciate all the good input (and the education).
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#1782157 - 11/03/11 02:20 AM Re: Keyboard Speakers: EV, QSC, JBL [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
I just wanted to report that I received my pair of EV ZXA1 90B's and tried one in mono mode. Haven't opened the other box, in case I want to return.

Very nice and they're quite compact. Really about the same size/weight as the Stagepas 300 but definitely louder (I didn't even raise the gain on the FP7F and this is a direct connect, no mixer/preamp). So there's still a lot of room to increase the volume.

I was very impressed with the low notes below middle C. Very clear growl like a real piano. (Stagepas was Boomy) Of course it's missing some frequencies in the very low range but not an issue in a band situation. It's a pretty small cab after all.

Highs are very clean sounding. This may need some EQ'ing though and there's no way to do that on the cab. I just controlled it from the the keyboard.

Big difference in sound from the Stagepas 300. I can't compare it to other brands since I only have these two, but the EV is the least expensive of the better cabs. But this is close to double the price of a Stagepas 300 for a pair. So I'd expect that it'll beat the Stagepas.
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