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#1782540 - 11/03/11 05:54 PM Hammer weight. Woods
lluiscl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/06
Posts: 146
Hi. I need to replace a Renner hammers in a Schimmel grand. They are made of beech and, actually, they are so wasted and shimmed that the down weight in keys are only 45 grms (and resilence and sound are dead...).
Replace them directly from factory (including shanks) is not an option because budget. I have two different sets alternatives, with similar size and both shaped: one made of beech and other in walnut (and impregnated). What do you think will be lighter at the end? (obviously I don't have mode to test/weight them).
Thanks in advance,
Lluís

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#1782667 - 11/03/11 08:34 PM Re: Hammer weight. Woods [Re: lluiscl]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Hammer weight depends on more factors than the wood used on the moldings.

Before embarking on a project as important as hammer selection and installation on a high quality expensive instrument, you need to have the tools and wherewithal to do the piano justice.

Sorry, but if you don't have anything to weigh them, (possibly along with fixtures and experience) the chances of a positive outcome of your project are slim indeed.

PS: the hammers are not beech, they are probably hornbeam, which is not related to beech.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1782692 - 11/03/11 09:08 PM Re: Hammer weight. Woods [Re: lluiscl]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5246
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: lluiscl
Replace them directly from factory (including shanks) is not an option because budget. I have two different sets alternatives, with similar size and both shaped: one made of beech and other in walnut (and impregnated). What do you think will be lighter at the end? (obviously I don't have mode to test/weight them).

There is not enough information here to answer your question.

The wood used for the molding contributes only a small part of the overall weight of the hammer. The density of the felt is a bigger factor. Were both sets of hammers made with the same type of felt? Did the hammermaker use the same amount of pressure and heat? The exact size and shape of the hammers is important. Are the hammers the same width? Do you know how to trim them to the correct width for your piano?

As well, you don’t really know how much hammer mass your action and piano needs. The old hammers are worn so badly you cannot accurately determine what their weight might have been when they were new.

You need to consult with someone who is experienced with this work, who can examine your piano and the hammers you have available and who can help you evaluate your different options. He/she can also help you replace the hammers in a workman like way. There are many ways to make mistakes in this work and it doesn’t sound like you have the experience to avoid making them.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#1782854 - 11/04/11 02:59 AM Re: Hammer weight. Woods [Re: Supply]
lluiscl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/06
Posts: 146
Thanks a lot for your responses. Obviously I have tools and experience in this work... The main question here is that, due the dimensions of the original hammer (78-70mm), I don't have many options to choose. I know that originals were very hard (full impregnated)from the beginning, so choose the walnut impregnated ones is my first option. Final weight is also crucial (since 1 grm more or less in hammer is about 6 grms in the key) and I try to avoid removing molding and felt from the beginning... I read also that walnut/mahogany/soft maple moldings are lighter than hornbeam/birch/hard maple, but the other hammer option (from Renner) says in german "Weissbuche", which is the traditional white beech,no? and I think isn´t the same as hornbeam.
I'd apreciate any helps more...
All the best,
Lluís

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#1782892 - 11/04/11 06:31 AM Re: Hammer weight. Woods [Re: lluiscl]
Zeno Wood Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 444
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Weissbuche is the german for hornbeam. Check out:

http://www.lloydmeyer.com/PDF/hornbeam.pdf
_________________________
Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College

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#1783186 - 11/04/11 03:12 PM Re: Hammer weight. Woods [Re: lluiscl]
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 3919
Loc: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: lluiscl
...Obviously I have tools and experience in this work....
Really? have you been shopping for scales since yesterday?
Originally Posted By: lluiscl
.... What do you think will be lighter at the end? (obviously I don't have mode to test/weight them)...

A good scale is a must-have for doing a proper hammer job. If you don't know what the original hammers weigh, how can you match the weight of the new hammers? Certainly not alone by the species of the wood used in the molding.

Digital scales sell for a few Euros on eBay. Go splurge - buying new tools makes technicians happy!
Originally Posted By: lluiscl
... I try to avoid removing molding and felt from the beginning...

Fine tuning the weight of individual hammers by custom tapering of the tails and/or making the hammer more narrow is standard practice, at least in good rebuilding shops in North America.
_________________________
Jurgen Goering
Piano Forte Supply
www.pianofortesupply.com

Piattino Caster Cups distributor

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#1783206 - 11/04/11 03:35 PM Re: Hammer weight. Woods [Re: Supply]
lluiscl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/10/06
Posts: 146
Lucky I have found the solution this afternoon, directly from Louis-renner web. They have the hammers that I need bored for Schimmel. Mahogany is the molding.
All the best.

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