Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards A trip to the piano shop (another one)

James, I have been trying to contact CUSTÓDIO CARDOSO PEREIRA as you suggested and have phoned their chief sales rep twice, but both times it seems he terminated the call for some inexplicable reason when I said I was looking for a distributor for Kawai DPs.

I then wrote using their email message portal outlining the problem but this facility doesn't work (send button leads to 'The page cannot be displayed' message). So that looks like a non starter.

The Yamaha CLP 330 is looking more and more like the best choice - but the price the fellow is asking is too high in my opinion - higher than most of the prices paid (on the Prices Paid thread here, as Mac has listed above) for the piano even when it was a newer (and certainly not discontinued) model.

Fact is, the shop which has them is stock operates at very high asking prices - whether these are the actual list prices (which are unrealistically high by all accounts) or genuine asking prices or bargaining positions, I'm not sure, but I think they are actual asking prices - probably with no more than free delivery and a stool thrown in.

Perhaps I should just go there and offer what I think is a fair price: €1150 - 1220, and stick to that. If it doesn't work, I can always walk away and wait for another deal to come up.

By the way, the UK Pianos price for the new CLP 430 is €1576 - considerably less than this local shop was asking for the older CLP330.

As the buyer and given the 330 is a superseded model, you hold the power. Tell him the price you are prepared to pay and stick by it. Chances are he will back down. The problem with salespeople is that they generally like to have the upper hand all the time. They want to be in control of the information, and they create the myths about why this 330 is so special and unique, and also why it's such a bargain. This type of stuff is usually baloney. You have to see through all the games and decide if it's the keyboard you want. If you decide it is, forget concerns about what the dealer thinks, how the deal is "once in a lifetime" or how this deal is "bleeding him dry", just decide what you are prepared to pay and make him an offer. Tell him you will have to walk if he can't take the deal. You'd be amazed at what a dealer will accept once you take back to power. Believe me, as a buyer in today's market, you have the power. Anything that is 5-10% over his cost price will get the deal done - especially on a superseded model that very few customers have shown an interest in.

This approach may not be in your natural personality so you may have to psych yourself up or bring somebody along for moral support. I think you will get the DP you want for a lot less than you thought was possible. So, get out there and make it happen. It'll change your purchasing life once you learn to talk tough because you'll never pay full price for anything ever again. I certainly haven't in the last 20 years.

Ando - I think you're right . As I say, I've got what I think is a reasonable price in mind: €1200. It's not exactly the sort of bargain I'd be looking for 2nd hand - just a fair price.

toddy, thank you for the information - I will pass this on to my European sales colleagues.

Kind regards,
James
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James, it would be good if Kawai could have their products more widely distributed for local demonstration and sale - especially as the considered opinion of contributors to this forum is that a piano buyer must try it personally before making a commitment to buy.

I don't know what happened with the phone call - maybe we were cut off (twice?), but I didn't feel like ringing for a third time. As for the email window - yes, that was very poor. That sort of failure on a web site - especially one of a large company which boasts of a proud history on its home page - is very annoying!

Thanks for your efforts, anyway.

Got a puncture yesterday going to work. It was bucketing down so I got wet, too. Coming home, I had to walk again, since I don't go around with a puncture repair outfit and pump. Took a different route home and passed a music shop I'd never bothered with before: grimy old place, off the beaten track, no information on-line at all. I thought it must be a specialist shop of some sort.

But once inside, I was most impressed. The place was chockablock with instruments of all kinds, all rather untidy and with a lot of down at heel, sloppily dressed folks wondering around: my kind of place.

Anyway to my surprise there were dozens of pianos (including some acoustics) stuck along the end of an aisle. Yamaha, Casio, Roland, Kurzwiel and even a Kawai MP6, and not a soul in sight - they just left me too it. So, at last a proper comparative keyboard test!

I did the rounds and found the Yamahas too resistant for my liking including the GHS, GH and GH3 – only that the GH and GH3 felt more defined.

The Casios were a little better, I thought – more transparent feel. But they seemed really quite flimsy compared to all the others.

The Kawai MP6, which I believe has the same keyboard as the CN33 and CN43 that I was on the verge of ordering without trying first was a disappointment. I thought the keyboard good but really rather similar to the Yamaha GH3 but with the escapement notch.

But the clear winner was, for me, the Roland keyboards (apart from the inferior PHA alpha II). The model I was trying was the HP 302 – entry level cabinet design, but with the all important PHA II and SN sound driver. Now this felt much better – defined, nicely weighted but not over-done: as if you’re pushing weights, but in a well balanced machine.

The only piano in the shop with a better piano type keyboard (including the actual acoustics, which were Yamaha uprights) was the Roland LX-10F which has PHA III. For some reason, I noticed a very clear difference between the two this time. But it is well over €3000. However, I do understand why people on this forum advocate the FP 7f as a good option as it has that same keyboard for 2/3 that price.

Another thing that I liked about the HP 302 was the feel of the key tops – not ‘ivory feel’ but certainly with enough friction for me. And the amplifier and speakers, although only 12w, are loud enough for the room I’m going to have the piano, too. The sound is not great, but DPs are generally no more than adequate unless you get the top of the range stuff. Easy solution: hook it up to another system when you want the best sound.

I also noticed that the Yamahas were expensive: €1100 odd for the YDP 161, for example. But the Rolands were actually cheaper than the other shops. The ‘discount’ price is €1580 in three other shops, and even more on-line from Thomann or Gear4 Music. But here it had a 1482 price tag: things were looking good for the Roland 302.

Then a chap with a whiskery face and appeared. He had a pleasant, laid back approach. Turned out to be the owner. I remarked that the Yamaha 161 was expensive: I could get it cheaper in town. So he says we could do a deal. So I said, and this Roland: €1480 – surely he could do better than that, cash deal. (I mentioned my bike puncture problem at one point - thought it might help my case) So he said the Rolands were already heavily discounted but maybe he could arrange something. In the end we finished at €1350, satin black, free delivery and installation, if I wanted.

So that’s it, he brought it round this morning, and I opened up the boxes and set it up with my son this afternoon. It’s better than I hoped. For example, the problem I mentioned above with the HP 307 (same piano but with bigger amp, ivory keys and one or two extra niceties), is now solved. It turns out that the unpleasant resonance was actually the headphones I was using. When I do the same test with my old AKG 240 headphones (bought in 1978) everything sounds fine. Also, I’ve tweaked a few settings and got it sounding even better.
It really sounds as much like a grand piano under my fingers as I can reasonably expect. One very happy customer. And extremely grateful for the advice, tips and information I’ve got from many of you.

- Do try the keyboards yourself: no one else’s opinion is going to do the job: check!
- Use a DECENT pair of headphones: check!
- Bargain with the man. It might work. If it doesn’t, you can always walk out, problem solved: check!
- Never berate a bicycle puncture. It might be the harbinger of something good.

Oh, and thanks to Dewster’s DPBSD, too. Listening very carefully to those audio files also convinced me that the Roland SN sound was, after all, pretty special.

Nice story toddy. I think you got the Roland HP302? Good keyboard action, sounds OK with headphones. Congrats.

Your story confirms an important point, you have to try and hear these products for yourself.

Congrats on your new piano toddy, and for stumbling upon that gem of a store!

Cheers,
James
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I'm glad it was some use to you - hope you enjoy your shiny new DP!