I am playing a DP into my computer via MIDI through piano software and then back out into speakers.

My problem is this ....

I really only have 2 jacks to connect to on my computer for audio output.... A Front L/R Lineout connector in the back which designated for connection to my computer speakers AND a headphone jack.

If I hook anything to the HEADPHONE jack, the LINEOUT jack shuts off. So, I tried putting a splitter on the LINEOUT jack and using it for both my computer speaker and my piano speakers.

That sort of works, but it is unpredictable. Sometimes the sound to my piano speakers will be reduced for whatever reason.

If I do not use a splitter, then am frequently exchanging which is plugged into that output jack. That can't be good and I am fearful that eventually will result in loss of signal through that jack.

I am also plugging and unplugging headphone jacks to replace the speaker that is plugged in.]

Bottom line .... There must be some equipment available that will allow me to plug in my speakers, headphones, computer speaker, etc ... and leave them plugged in ... and just select them when I wish to activate them.

Ideas ?

Q1: If you use the line outputs for listening with speakers, then you must have an amplifier between the computer line out and the speakers, yes?

Q2: Are you trying to listen to BOTH the speakers and headphones at the same time? Or just one or the other?

It would help if you describe your equipment configuration.

Hi dmd

Earlier I had suggested a mixer to you. Mine is a small Behringer I think, it was around $80. I wanted to be able to play everything at the same time if I wanted (for instance, I want to play my keyboard and a Motif rack along with one of my i-tunes). My headphones plug in to the mixer as well, along with all the other equipment. I can then use one component by itself or all at the same time. Forgive me if I'm not understanding what it is you want to do.

Hi - if you output to both your computer speakers and your DP speakers at the same time (i.e. the speakers are in parallel) the amplifier in your computer will see a resistance which is 1/2 the resistance it sees driving only one speaker. If your speakers are both e.g. 4 ohms the resulting resistance will be 2 ohms which can be low for an amplifier - even a normal stereo system amplifier.

Without knowing there could be some sort of protective circuit in the computer amplifier that affects the level.

Maybe if you have access to an amplifier of some kind you could put it between the computer amplifier and the speakers like this:

computer/headphone output jack - audio amplifier - computer speakers + DP speakers.

If the audio amplifier has an A/B speaker selector you may also switch between them like this.

You may also connect the headphone jack to the audio amplifier and if it has a headphone output then switch altogether on this amplifier.

Normally computer amplifier outputs can be connected to another amplifier without problems - you should watch the computer output levels, though, so that the sound isn't very loud!

Best regards,

Jesper

Well, I should have said Monitors. The only speakers I have are the computer speakers. I have Yamaha Monitors which I use for my Digital Piano sound.


One or the other.

Ok, if you have monitors ...

Add a headphone amplifier. Plug your headphones into that.
Take the computer line output that you currently use, but use a splitter-cable arrangement. Feed one computer output pair to the monitors and the other to the headphone amp.

The difficult part is ...
You computer line-output probably uses a 1/8" mini-phone plug (stereo TRS).
Your monitors probably take 1/4" phone plugs and/or XLR plugs.
A headphone amp probably accepts 1/8" mini-phone plug (stereo TRS).
So you'll need to jerry rig a cable arrangement, with cable splitters and plug adapters.

Are you willing to buy a headphone amp?
If so, can you specify the types of connectors on your monitors, and your computer line output?

I don't think I need a headphone amp because I have already utilized the lineout through my headphones and I hear roughly the same volume as I do through my monitors. If there is a problem with that I think I can adjust volume within the Piano Software and be just fine.



I sounds like you are getting close to suggesting what what I have already tried ... cable splitters. Maybe that is my only option. That seemed to be unreliable and affected the volume considerably so I was looking for a better option.

Maybe there isn't one.

dmd, I get just a little lost on some of the details here. But I think when you might want is an external sound interface. I'll describe the situation as I have it.

You attach the computer to the interface by USB, your DP to the line-in of the interface, your monitors to the line-out, and then plug your headphones in to the headphone jack of the interface. It does it all.

Then you can play onboard sounds or vintage D through the sound interface into either headphones or monitors, or both. Additionally, you could still utilize your onboard audio on your computer to drive computer speakers if you want to do that (for regular computer stuff...only Vintage D will use the external interface). This also allows you to record audio from your DP onboard sounds on your hard drive if you so desire.

Supposedly USB interfaces also have superior speed, DAC quality, and headphone amp quality as well.

I have Firewire based audio interface with several outputs and separate physical volume control knobs for the monitor speakers and headphones. They make these as large and complex as you want. I recording studio might want to have a few different headphone mixes sent to different headphones and have several sets of monitor speakers. Little boxes to control all this are available as are much simpler ones.

What you need is an external audio interface with enough outputs for your needs. There is not a shortage of products to choose from. Here is one: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlett8i6/

Yeah, though it's not as nice as the one ChrisA is recommending, I use the Behringer UCA202. It does it all for $27 or something. Volume control on it is only for the headphones, though. You have to control line-out volume at the source. Also, no XLR ins or outs.

That is what most people try at first then they figure it's best to spend the bucks and get what they really need. The audio quality really does move up an order of magnitude by going to even "entry level" professional interface. There really is a jump. After that the improvements are incremental.

Cable adapters are OK for one-off setup or for figuring out what you need. Then order the "correct" cable with the ends on it that exactly match your equipment.

Good idea.

I'm not happy with the headphone output from mine. It sounds very thin. It has a lot of emphasis on mids and highs, with no bass. Perhaps it's meant for a DJ to monitor? Yet the line outputs give perfect sound, go figure. So I only use the line outs.

dmd: I think the Focusrite unit ($250) is way overkill here. You can do as well for MUCH less money ... because you don't need lots of extra inputs and features. And, as gvfarns suggests, I'd stay away from firewire. Many computers have no firewire connection, and of those that do, many are a bit flaky. USB is flawless.

Now we are getting somewhere !!!!

I will begin looking into this stuff.

Thank you all for your participation.

MacMacMac, what interface are you using?

I've kicked around the idea of getting a headphone amp to replace the built-in one on my interface, which according to some review I read, is pretty good for its price range but since it has a high output impedance, apparently it's good only with high impedance headphones. Not sure my Senn 595's qualify. I feel like it sounds pretty good, but these headphones are so much better than any others I've ever used that it's tough to know.

Problem with using a headphone amp is that you have to have an available line-out (i.e., one that's not going in to your monitors), right?

Or wait, maybe the monitors (or headphone amp) have a line-out pass-through.

Headphone amp quality evaluation seems like a dark art, with many conflicting opinions. I'd like some day to get a better sound interface with a really good built-in headphone amp, but it seems like some people feel that no such interface exists. That being the case maybe it makes sense to get a sound interface with multiple line-outs.

I use the Presonus AudioBox USB. New $150, used $75. It has a single (stereo) line out, via 1/4" phone jacks.

Another is the M-Audio Fast Track Pro. New $200, used $100. It has 1/4" phone jacks for its line outputs (like the Presonus), perfect for connecting to your monitors. And it also has two RCA line outputs.

Both have headphone outputs. (But I didn't like the headphone output from the Presonus.)

This sounds like it would be exactly what I need. Just one question.

Connecting my DP to the LineIn - Is that with a USB connector ?

The approach I take (and I see that our friend Dewster has the same approach) is to only use a headphone amp if the sound level is insufficient. I.e - I only use it to make the sound louder. I do need one, mainly for my AKG K601 headphones. I'm sure there ARE differences in sound between amps, but IMHO they are probably very minor compared to the difference in sound between headphones (which is huge). Of course, if I had some headphones which had a very unique/unusual requirements, I would then take extra care to choose the right amp. I don't have any such headphones.

Greg.

Nope.

- Connect the piano via USB to the computer. I presume you've done that already?
- Connect the external sound card's USB jack to the computer's USB jack. (And install the driver software.)
- Connect the external sound card's line output to the monitors.

You won't need the line inputs on the external sound card.

Well, actually in addition to what you mention, MacMacMac, I take the line-out from my digital piano and plug them in (using RCA connectors on my system) to the line-in of the interface. That allows me:

1. to record using onboard sounds if I want to.

2. to play using onboard sounds and have it come out the same speakers and headphones as my software piano sounds without changing any cables. A/B comparisons in this manner will make you feel REALLY good about buying a software piano.

MacMacMac, if you don't like your presonus, then what do you plug your headphones into when you play Vintage D?

gv: It's a bit complicated ...

I feed the Presonus output to two equalizers. One equalizer is set for proper headphone sound. The other for speakers.

The equalizers both feed into two aux inputs on a 5.1 channel amplifier (receiver). I plug the headphones into that (or unplug for speaker listening).

I select aux input "A" when I use the headphones, and input "B" for speakers (two large floor-standing speakers).

I also feed one equalizer into the two front and two rear inputs on the amplifier. When I select "6-ch input" instead of "A" or "B", I get sound from four speakers ... the two big ones and two additional "satellite" speakers setting on top of the piano.

So I'm using the amplifier for the headphones, not the Presonus phones jack.

Hmm. Complicated indeed.

dmd, to assist you in your search, I did a quick list of all the interfaces I could think of that were close to the right price range. If anyone can think of others, let me know. Prices are current on Amazon.

Behringer UFO202 $27.00
Presonus AudioBox USB $149.00
Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 $243.00
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 $149.00
Focusrite Saffire 6 USB $185.81
M-Audio Fast Track Pro $167.25
Tascam US-144 Mk2 $127.95
TASCAM US-122 MK2 $109.95

you can see why I went with the Behringer. Relative to the others it's a bit low end, but I'm poor, and Behringer is kind of the brand for people looking for a deal.

gv: How does the Behringer sound? How's the latency?

It sounds good to me. Certainly my headphones sound great to me, but as I sort of mentioned, I haven't tried it against other good hardware.

My interface when running Vintage D uses a buffer of 128 samples for an output latency of 5.4 ms. output+processing latency is 8.3 ms. This uses the Behringer drivers. Using ASIO4ALL I had to do 224 samples. I think if I really pushed it I could probably get a crackle using 128, but it doesn't happen during normal playing. As I kind of mentioned, my computer is ghetto, so I'm not sure what the limiting factor on my system is.

Yeah Behringer's kind of a sweet company in terms of deals. Cheap, knockoff stuff, apparently, but at the entry-pro level. I'm actually having a little buyer's remorse after buying M-audio bx5a monitors instead of Behringer truths (also cheap, but bigger). Bachmaniac's comments on this thread sort of make me think I should have gone that route. But anyway, don't want to change the topic to monitors.

Much of the price of the Focusrite unit is in the quality of the input section and if you are not planning on recording analog sources then you pay for it and don't use it. But the cost of even a small entry-level monitor controller is even higher. An some day you may want to record. If I could have only one I'd buy the audio interface first rather than a monitor controller. In a perfect world you'd have both

These would be ideal monitor controllers.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MonitorStat/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BigKnob/

$250 seems to be about the price of an audio interface with those features. I have something just line it only made by Presonus. Same price. but My Presonus interface is Firewire based and I figured you might be using a Windows based PC and it takes some fiddling to make those work with FW. The Focusrite box is USB.

About Firewire. You only need it if you are dealing with a half dozen or more audio channels. Almost all of the latency is do to the operating system drivers not in the interface. Firewire is NOT at all "flakly" and is absolutely required if you are dealing with many audio chanels. What's flakly is some software and Windows drivers.

And the winner is .....Behringer UFO202 $27.00 !!!!!!

I am going to try cheap and simple from Bestbuy.com. We have a local Bestbuy so if it does not work as I would like, I will just return it and then look into one of the fancy ones.

I don't need any functionality other than avoiding issues with attaching and un-attaching jacks in the lineout on my computer and retaining the functionality of my computer speaker.

Be sure to get cables that have 1/4 ts on one side and rca connectors on the other. You will need two sets most likely, one to go from the interface to your monitors and one if you do like me and run your DP sounds into the interface as well.

One downside of the Behringers: it has a 1/8 jack for headphones. So if you have Sennheisers (seems like I remember that you might) you need to have a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter handy. The volume slider on the headphones is surprisingly precise, by the way. It spins around many times...you could apparently use it with very high impedance headphones.

I kind of want to hear Vintage D through your monitors. I've kind of been thinking those Yamaha's might where I end up ultimately. Let me know how it sounds through them.

Well, when it arrives I will gather all my "stuff" together, look and see where I am at and go from there.

I will probably be back on this thread with questions once that happens.

Thanks again to everyone for your input here. I absolutely could never have done this without you guys.

I wish someone had mentioned that Behringer UFO202 when I went looking for an interface. I could have saved $50. (My Presonus cost $76. It has lots more features than then Behringer, but I don't need ANY of those. So the Behringer would work.)

These days, it's hard to produce poor quality sound, even with low-priced equipment.

dmd, we got your back.

Yeah, this Behringer interface is pretty nifty. I mean, it's 16 bit 44.1 kHz stuff. But my ears can't tell.

Correct. FW is the professional standard for serial ports. Some computers use a cheap version of FW which is really a FW piggybacked onto a USB port. If you have a genuine native FW port they are superior to USB. In a desktop computer you can just put in a PCI FW card and enjoy seamless audio performance. They are not flaky at all. Contrary to popular belief, FW is also not about to disappear.

Hi,

Am I right to assume that both the Presonus AudioBox USB and the M-Audio Fast Track Pro are USB1.1 devices, and thus the bandwidth is not enough for simultaneously playback and record?

(For example if I want to play back a recording, and record a new track while listening to it.)

On the other hand, the Presonus Firebox can do this, right?

Thank you:

Csillag

Audio data rates are very low. MIDI data rates are even lower. All versions of USB are plenty fast enough.

The Fast Track Pro's specifications (here: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FastTrackPro.html - click on "Specifications") say that in 88.2/96 Khz, 24bit mode, the device can do 2-in OR 2-out ports. (While in 44.1/48 Khz, 16bit mode, it can do 4x4 channels.)

The article at ( http://joegiampaoli.blogspot.com/2011/06/m-audio-fast-track-pro-for-debian-linux.html ) also emphasizes this limitation.

Does anybody know whether the Presonus AudioBox has this limitation, too?

Thank you.

I don't know. But ... how many ports/channels do you need?

I hope so because I just got my Behringer Audio Control device. I read all the stuff that came with it.... not much to it. Plugged it in to a USB port ... Turned it on ... It is all lit up ... Hooked my speakers and headphones to the device .... hit a few keys on my DP .... saw Vintage D reacting ... but .... NO SOUND !

Any ideas ?

EDIT: Well, I just had a thought. Am I supposed to connect my LINEOUT jack from my computer into the INPUT stereo connectors on this device ? I was assuming the input was coming automatically through the USB cable. Maybe that is a false assumption.


EDIT: Yep ... That was it !

Ok, now I have sound.

Now, I just have to see about reducing the hum I hear.

Well, that is a deal breaker. This device is introducing a hum that I cannot live with.

Is the answer to that problem going to be a better device ?

Don't connect the line-out of your computer to the behringer. That actually bypasses the behringer's superior DAC. That's the source of the hum as well. When it is correctly configured there will be no hum.

What's happening is that Vintage D is setup to send audio to your onboard DAC instead of the behringer. You need to change this.

First, download the ASIO driver from behringer's web site (not the asio4all driver). Probably you should uninstall your asio4all to avoid confusion.

Then, you need to set Vintage D to use the Behringer ASIO driver for audio output. This is a similar process to what you did before with asio4all. You will also need to go into the asio control panel and select a speed (rapid, super rapid, medium, etc). These speeds are actually controlling the buffer size and consequently the latency.

When it is correctly configured, Vintage D sound will NOT come out of your onboard audio, only the behringer. Other computer sounds will probably continue to use your onboard sound as they did before, though you may need to configure something somewhere in windows to ensure that happens.

Let me know if your problems persist after doing this. Since we have the exact same setup, I'm sure I can help. PM me if I don't respond quickly, since I'm not necessarily following this thread closely.

QV: Ok, Thanks ... I will be a little while before I get this done. I have another unrelated matter I need to deal with.

gv has it right.

EVERY device requires a driver. Your new Behringer device needs one.

Did it not come with a driver CD?

If not, you can use ASIO4All as gv suggests. But that's disappointing. A custom driver, made for a particular sound card will likely give better results.

No, it did not have a driver CD.

I downloaded and installed the 64 bit drivers.

Ok, Now I just have to wait for QV to get things set up properly.

Right now, all I hear is a steady CLICK, CLICK, CLICK from my phones and when I play on the DP nothing comes through.

In the options area of Kontakt ... I have ASIO for Driver. Behringer USB Audio for Device.

ASIO Config button brings up the Behringer USB/ASIO configuration form.

For USB Configuration, I have Device: Behringer USB Audio, Output and Input are checked, Both Channels show 1+2, Sample Rate is 32 kHz, resolution is 16 bit.

For ASIO Configuration, I have ASIO Resolution 32 Bit, System Performance is Rapid, Application Priority is Above Normal.

EDIT: Now, as an added issue, When I press a key on my DP I am not getting a response in the KONTAKT Player. So it appears I have lost my input somehow.

ALSO for your information I did not UNINSTALL the ASIO4ALL driver because I do not know how to do that. If you wish for me to do that I will need some instruction on how to do that.

I have to attend to dinner now, so I will be back in half-hour to an hour.

Yeah, the thing is that I think Kawai registers itself as USB audio, and so does the Behringer. They don't conflict or anything, but it might be that when you installed the Behringer it made Kontakt think it should get MIDI signals from there. I think mine did that and I had to set the MIDI thing back. I think I had to reboot a couple of times too. Lol.

Dmd, give me a call when you can. We'll figure it out and then post the soluion.

Well, just to close out this thread ....

With GVFarn's help I was able to get the Behringer USB Audio Device installed properly and it works great. Thanks to all for any and all suggestions.

BTW a key TIP for installing the Behringer USB Audio Device (UCA202) is to connect the device to the computer via a USB port BEFORE installing the Behringer driver. If you don't, it will not work at all.

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