Having just bought a Roland HP 302, I'm getting to grips with its technical interface, which in this respect is the same as the HP 305 and probably the HP 307 and earlier series too. Now, it has over 300 sounds in it, many of which are very good indeed (electric pianos, basses and some not too bad orchestral instruments - and Herbie Hancock's 1970's bass synth sound). And there are 8 full drum and rhythm sets.

Now my question is this (to which I fear the answer is no): Can the piano receive midi in multi mode? I cannot find any evidence that it can in the instructions. But on the other hand, what on earth is the point of having so many great sounds when you can only use one (or possibly 2 in split mode) simultaneously?

toddy, I would be very surprised if the HP302 could not respond to multi-mode MIDI messages - especially given the large sound selection, as you note.

Perhaps you could download a PDF of the owner's manual and search for the term 'multi'?

Cheers,
James
x

Hi James! Well, I do have the manual (it's in Spanish for some reason) and also the pdf in English from Roland's site. It mentions transmit channel selection (one only though 1-16 or off - which is all quite logical) and it mentions local off, which works fine, but not a receive mode selection (omni, poly, mono, multi). I've really looked and looked.

Also, I see that the Casio APs and the Kawai CN33 do receive on multiple channels - it says so in Thomann's brief product description.

I'm looking in the midi implementation list, but I'm finding that Roland's manual is far from clear, and sometimes quite ambiguous.

Well, that's a little odd. Perhaps multi-mode is always 'on'?
Also, I believe I'm correct in thinking that this instrument allows playback of MIDI Format 0/1 files from USB memory, so it's surely supported.

Either way, I expect you could get a definite answer upon contacting Roland.

Cheers,
James
x

I don't know if I'm answering the question by Toddy or not but:

I have a Roland KR7, and it has several hundred musical instrument sounds.

With a midi file that has been scored to play several instruments, and the midi file is set up to put the instruments on their correct channel, and with the correct Program, Bank, and LSB settings, it will play all the instruments together.

I don't know if you are aware of this terminology, but piano is usually on channel 1, drums are usually on channel 10.

The three settings that enable the piano to play the sounds you want are: Program, Bank, and LSB. These three settings make up what is called the Patch List.

Acoustic pianos seem to always be either Program 1 or 3. Electric pianos are on Program 5 and 6. The Bank and LSB settings determine which piano sound to use (for example).

The major problem with Roland (at least is was with my piano) is that Roland didn't publish the three essential numbers for Program, Bank, and LSB. I had to figure them out by trial and error.

I suspect that all Rolands use a similar or the same numbering system.

Glenn

PS - I just read James last comment. Good luck with getting this kind of information from Roland. When I was finally put in touch with their technical people and asked for a Patch List, they sent me a copy of the instrument list that's in the manual!!

A Patch List should be universally understood by anyone using midi with more than one voice.

Well, it does respond to channel 10 separately with drum, yes. But I've been unable so far to get it to recognise different 'patches' or sounds on different midi channels (apart from drums).

It says it supports General Midi II which is the patch numbering convention (used to be 1-128 but is much larger now). So if it does that, you'd think it would have to respond to different channels playing different patches. Otherwise, what would be the point of general midi?

The modes are as follows: M1 - omni on poly, M2 - omni on mono, M3 Omni off poly, M4 - Omni off mono.

It is mode 4 that I want (set for multi-timbral reception)

I dunno - in the midi implementation chart it says 'Transmitted - Mode 3' which is OK.

But under 'Recognised' (presumably, received) it has this to say:

Default: Mode 3
Messages:Mode 3, 4 (M=1) Recognized as M [not equal to] 1 even if M=1.

*scratches head*

In any case, Glenn, thanks very much for that information and with that in mind, I think the best thing to do is experiment some more with the piano linked to the computer, and see if it can play back different sounds together. The manual is not much help.

It was a long time ago, but I liked my Roland sequencer because it was so easy and logical to use. My fingers could fly over the keys to make it do things, which is more than I can say for my current migraine, Cubase. I'm tempted to DL the manual and see for myself if the information is not there (sometimes it's put in a spec sheet at the end, in extra-small print)--- but it's your keyboard and I have my own hands more than full.

All I can say is, keep trying; it will yield to your will eventually.

PS- I still have that Roland sequencer. Built like a tank; it still works, though it reads the OS from and writes files to a 3" floppy and only recognizes one bank... hopelessly out of date or I'd still have it in service.

Hey! Got it! Thanks James, Glenn and Jeff. It's behaving exactly as it should now - the other day it was playing patch 1 (the default Acoustic Grand) for all the parts of a midi file I downloaded as an experiment. (Samba pa ti, it was - sounded bonito all on piano!)

That, plus the fact that NOWHERE in the manual does it even hint you can expand its tonal palate beyond its own twin recording function....except for that cryptic clue in the midi implementation chart, and the fact that Casio and Kawai are advertised as multitimbral whereas the Rolands are not.

I was beginning to fear the worst: a silly restriction or oversight on Roland's part. But now, just experimenting with recording several channels each with a patch allocated from a GM type menu it works fine.

As James suggested, it turns out to be the default setting. Fantastic!

Toddy:

Just for fun, I copied a small part of the patch list I made for my Roland.

Each instrument or voice has a particular three number code as I noted previously - this is the so called patch number.

You would require a midi editor in which to change the patch numbers so as to get all the sound variations possible.

KR-7 Patch List Program Bank LSB
Grand Piano 1 8 64
Piano 1 1 0 1
Ballad Piano 1 16 65
Bell Piano 3 0 67
Bright Piano 3 8 67
Piano Oohs 3 0 68
Hard Rhodes 5 0 65
Stage Rhodes 5 0 66
Soft Electric Piano 5 8 64
Air Grand (quick decay) 5 8 65
Electric Piano 1v 5 16 0
Electric piano 1 (not Rhodes) 5 16 64
Dyno Rhodes 5 16 67
Suitcase (electric piano) 5 16 66
Tremolo Dyno 5 16 68
1960's Electric Piano 5 24 0
Sine Rhodes (decays) 5 24 64
Wurly (electric piano) 5 24 65
GS Electric 2 (chorused piano) 6 0 0
Hard Electric 6 0 64
Electric 2 6 0 66
Electric Piano 2v 6 16 0
GS Vibes 12 0 0
Vibes (soft) 12 blank 9
GS Vibes 12 0 64
Pop Vibes 12 0 65
Vibe w 12 0 72
Vibraphone W 12 8 0
Hammond Organ 17 0 0
Metallic Organ 17 32 66
Organ 2 (Percussive organ) 18 0 0
Pipe Organ Bass 18 32 65
Organ Bass 18 8 65
Rock Organ 2 19 0 0
Rotary Organ S 19 0 65
Rotary Organ F 19 0 66
Digital Church Organ 21 0 64
Harmonica 23 0 0
Harmonica 23 0 68
Acoustic Nylon Guitar 25 0 0
Acoustic Guitar (steel) 26 0 0
Nylon Guitar 25 0 0
Nylon Guitar (twangier) 25 0 64
EX Acoustic Guitar 26 0 66
Electric Jazz Guitar 27 0 0
GS Electric Jazz Guitar 27 0 0

Highly enigmatic codes there, Glenn! Actually, the last time I used multi-mode interfacing systematically was when Roland organised their sounds in the following hierarchy, starting at the bottom: partial; tone; voice; patch (I think) where partial was oscillator, tone was oscillator combination, voice was the finished sound (eg including split/layer and performance information) and 'patch' was the midi number....you had to program these all in to get the sound you wanted, where you wanted.

Let's face it, Roland have come up with some fiendish ways of organising sounds!

Getting back to my HP 302 and the PC sequencer, it turns out to be very easy to use, so long as you use General Midi 1 (my sequencer doesn't support GM2). And this means I've now got full multi-track, multitimbral recording working perfectly well. In fact, I hadn't realised how easily it all works with GM. Not only are the sounds in standard locations, but the system automatically switches into them, which is handy.

However, some of the better sounds on the piano are not included in the 128 GM settings - in fact they seem to have put some of the cheesiest ones there, whilst the best Hammonds and Rhodes pianos are elsewhere.

Sooner or later, it would be good to be able to access those too - either through a 'Roland HP Series' enabled sequencer, or through systems exclusive commands. No doubt all will be revealed in good time.