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I had the wonderful opportunity to read the new Piano Buyer today. I think that it is well done.I do however feel the Feurich should have been placed in the top group. Before any of you start thinking that i am biased,(since i own one)please let me explain. Last year Larry said basically his contacts and himself were not familiar enough with the Feurich but he felt it would be in the Tier one group. This year Larry put the Feurich in group two. He did say that maybe some pianos in group two may not have gained enough brand prestige to be in group one. I assume he would say Feurich would fall into this category, as they are a very low volume company. Most dealers,techs and pianist have never played a Feurich,(less than 20 grands are made per year).This being said i don't think Feurich got a fair assessment. When i bought my Feurich last year i was not familiar with this brand either. I played beautiful Bosies,Steingraebers and Bluthners.They all deserve their top placements. However when i played the Feurich it was the won that won my heart for it's base,dynamic range,touch etc. I studied very carefully and compared it's wormanship and quality of parts to the others i have mentioned. (About three months of studying and comparing)My friends let me tell you the Feurich's craftsmanship and quality of parts will and does compete with any of the other group one brands.I challenge anyone who gets a chance to play and study the time and workmanship that goes into every Feurich,to say it does not belong in group one. Again i feel if Larry and his contacts knew more about the Feurich(Larry himself has admitted that he did not know enough about the Feurichs to make a fair assessment) it would have been placed in group one.If not enough is known about a brand then i feel Larry should have stated so instead of placing it. Most all brands in group two everyone has heard of and played except for the Feurich. I also agree with Larry that the pianos put in group two have a wide range of quality. I promise i am not a piano snob,but i do feel there should have been sub groups. Don't get me wrong, the pianos listed in group two are all fine pianos. If my piano truly belonged in group two, i would consider myself blessed to have a piano that fell within the ranks of these fine pianos.Seilers and the others are beautiful and wonderful pianos.To have a piano ranked as high quality and performance grade is good enough for me. All i want is for the Feurich to be heard and played before anyone says that it does not belong in group one with the highest quality pianos.They will surely learn what i already know. I learned the time and love that Julius Feurich puts into every one of his pianos.He is the fifth generation of one of the oldest German manufactures still around. I feel he has been done an injustice.(Probably not on purpose but because of lack of knowledge and the fact that Feurich's are few and far between when compared to other brands). For many generations Feurich has been considered one of the highest quality pianos made. I would like to add that the new Piano Buyer is a wealth of knowledge and i have always valued Larry Fine's opinions. I only hope that in the upcoming year Larry and his contacts will make it a priority to play and learn more about the Feurichs and then give his assessment.A fair assessment cannot be made without the opinions of many contacts who have actually played and studied the workmanship and quality of a Feurich. If then Larry and his contacts felt it belonged in group two then i would respect their opinion but not necessarily agree with it.(as this is a very subjective matter). Thanks Larry for the book and i do plan to order a copy of it.
Respectfully,
Terry Cunningham
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Feurich pianos are beautiful but hard to find. Their factory is fairly close to my home town in Germany but I never heard back when I recently wrote them planning a visit. Guess will have to keep on selling Hailuns... Norbert 
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Norbert,Thank you for being a long time advocate for Feurichs. I wish you would contact Julius again. I know that he would love to give you a personal tour. Tell him you know Terry Cunningham via Piano World. He is a first class act. When i bought my Feurich he contacted me personally to see how i liked it. Do you know he still E-mails me once in a while to see how it is settling in. This is what i call quality customer service. Maybe it's just one of the many perks one receives when ordering from a high quality low volume manufacturer. Anyway it sure makes me feel special as well as the Feurich does when i play it.
I am very surprised he did not respond to you. Please try again.Please feel free to pm me with your contact information and i will be glad to pass it along.
Terry Cunningham
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I had the wonderful opportunity to read the new Piano Buyer today. I think that it is well done.I do however feel the Feurich should have been placed in the top group. Before any of you start thinking that i am biased,(since i own one)please let me explain. Last year Larry said basically his contacts and himself were not familiar enough with the Feurich but he felt it would be in the Tier one group. This year Larry put the Feurich in group two. He did say that maybe some pianos in group two may not have gained enough brand prestige to be in group one. I assume he would say Feurich would fall into this category, as they are a very low volume company. Most dealers,techs and pianist have never played a Feurich,(less than 20 grands are made per year).This being said i don't think Feurich got a fair assessment. When i bought my Feurich last year i was not familiar with this brand either. I played beautiful Bosies,Steingraebers and Bluthners.They all deserve their top placements. However when i played the Feurich it was the won that won my heart for it's base,dynamic range,touch etc. I studied very carefully and compared it's wormanship and quality of parts to the others i have mentioned. (About three months of studying and comparing)My friends let me tell you the Feurich's craftsmanship and quality of parts will and does compete with any of the other group one brands.I challenge anyone who gets a chance to play and study the time and workmanship that goes into every Feurich,to say it does not belong in group one. Again i feel if Larry and his contacts knew more about the Feurich(Larry himself has admitted that he did not know enough about the Feurichs to make a fair assessment) it would have been placed in group one.If not enough is known about a brand then i feel Larry should have stated so instead of placing it. Most all brands in group two everyone has heard of and played except for the Feurich. I also agree with Larry that the pianos put in group two have a wide range of quality. I promise i am not a piano snob,but i do feel there should have been sub groups. Don't get me wrong, the pianos listed in group two are all fine pianos. If my piano truly belonged in group two, i would consider myself blessed to have a piano that fell within the ranks of these fine pianos.Seilers and the others are beautiful and wonderful pianos.To have a piano ranked as high quality and performance grade is good enough for me. All i want is for the Feurich to be heard and played before anyone says that it does not belong in group one with the highest quality pianos.They will surely learn what i already know. I learned the time and love that Julius Feurich puts into every one of his pianos.He is the fifth generation of one of the oldest German manufactures still around. I feel he has been done an injustice.(Probably not on purpose but because of lack of knowledge and the fact that Feurich's are few and far between when compared to other brands). For many generations Feurich has been considered one of the highest quality pianos made. I would like to add that the new Piano Buyer is a wealth of knowledge and i have always valued Larry Fine's opinions. I only hope that in the upcoming year Larry and his contacts will make it a priority to play and learn more about the Feurichs and then give his assessment.A fair assessment cannot be made without the opinions of many contacts who have actually played and studied the workmanship and quality of a Feurich. If then Larry and his contacts felt it belonged in group two then i would respect their opinion but not necessarily agree with it.(as this is a very subjective matter). Thanks Larry for the book and i do plan to order a copy of it.
Respectfully,
Terry Cunningham Hey Terry, I've played a Feurich before and I totally agree with you about these pianos being top notch. If it was to be placed in group one however I think it would also be necessary to place Grotrian, Sauter, August Forester in the same group. And then there's NY Steinway, M&H and Shigeru....... In the end though, who cares. You've got one of THE finest pianos in the world AND you love it to no end! And I'm sure there are Bosendorfer, Fazioli etc owners out there who don't have the deep and personal connection to their instrument that you do. You've got something that matters way more than a than a ranking list. I do however also get that you care about Feurich as a company and I'm sure things like tier ratings affect business sales, and for that reason it would be nice to see it fairly placed in Fine's list. cheers, Adrean
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I haven't read Fine's most recent rankings but in his post on the forums yesterday he stressed that the rankings are supposed to reflect perception of the brands in the industry overall as performing instruments. It sounded like he was trying to downplay the rankings as a measure of quality alone perhaps (?).
If this is the case, I hope he makes it very clear in the actual list that it's not entirely about quality.
It might be that Feurich didn't get the highest tier solely because, as such a small company, it doesn't have as high a profile or marketing power. Maybe it's not about the instrument as such.
The finest piano I've played in recent memory was a Sauter. I gather from what AJF says that Sauter is not in the top tier either. Go figure.
It's a bit like college rankings. The rankings have _some_ meaning, and that's _all_. It would be terrible for a person who will actually get the best education at the #15 school to decide to go to the #2 school just based on the ranking. As it turns out the ranking may be based on the endowment size of the school, or on alumni giving or some other factor that by no means translates directly into relevant differences between those two schools.
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Adrean,Thanks for your comments. You have such a wonderful way of putting things into perspective.And yes you are right, i do care about Feurich as a company. They deserve more credit.
Charles,You have made some very good points as well. I do not think he made it clear that it's not just about quality.I could be wrong.Maybe he did not intend to.I would hope that Larry's rankings are not based on size,marketing power or who advertises the most in his publication. I wish to think not. I have always had great respect for Mr.Fine and if this were the case i would be a bit disappointed. Again,i think Larry got it wrong here because he is or was not familiar enough with the Feurich to be able to give it it's just rating.As Norbert said there aren't many Feurichs out there. They are rare.Attention to detail is definitely not spared when it comes to these beautiful instruments.That being said i again say that the publication is very useful and i agree with most everything that is written in it.But one cannot give an assessment about something they have rarely seen or played.
Respectfully,
Terry
Last edited by Terry5758; 08/22/09 08:05 AM.
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Tery -
With all due respect you have confused Mr. Fine's 2008-09 Groupings with his 2009-10 Groupings.
In 2008-09, Group 1 was divided into A, B, and C.
And in 2008-09 Fine said that the Feurich probably belonged in "Group 1" - but he didn't specify 1A, B or C.
In 2009-10 Group One consists only of the instruments the the 2008-09 Group 1A.
The 2008-09 Group 1B and 1C instruments are now in the 2009-10 Group 2 - along with last year's Group 2A and some of the 2B pianos. Thus, Mr. Fine's assessment of the Feurich has not really changed.
The remaining 2008-09 2B pianos and the 2C pianos are now found in the 2009-10 Group 3.
By the way - your Feurich is one BEAUTIFUL instrument. If it sounds and plays even half as well as it looks you are a lucky man indeed !! Too bad only 20 grands are produced each year.
Last edited by carey; 08/22/09 03:26 PM.
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Dear Terry,
Although I have a copy of Larry Fine's "The Piano Book" I have not seen the most recent supplement with his latest rankings of pianos. Like you, I find Mr Fine's comments generally fair and balanced and his book is most informative and helpful.
Ranking piano manufacturers is fraught with difficulties, especially in the higher eschelons of the classification. Each piano maker has a range of models and some models may be less successful than others. I have heard some say for example that they dislike the Steinway A, but they find the Steinway B a wonderful piano. Is Fazioli better than Steinway or is Bosendorfer the best of them all? Each of the "top tier" makes will have its advocates and afficionados and of course its detractors. This ranking is heavily based on subjective criteria and is therefore not infallible.
I would not take to heart the omission of Feurich from the top listing. With a production of only 20 or so per year, each of these pianos is a rare jewel that has been lovingly crafted by piano artisans and that is why your piano can touch your musical soul.
Ultimately, we can ask no more from any piano.
Warm regards,
Robert.
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In North America we should not forget that the Europeans have their own take on things including life-style and leisure, art and culture. It's not *more* or *less* - but different. Outside manufacturers who have logical business interests in the success for their exported goods to America, few consumers over there would be at a loss when it comes to any product, including pianos. [Interesting how many of GI's seemed to agree back then in the 60's and 70's when later taking home their own Mercedeses and BMW's... ] "My grandmother had an old such and such and was always swearing by it", is much more commonly heard when it comes to pianos there than recitations from dear Larry's book. rest assured you won't find many Germans - or Europeans today - believing anybody is building better quality in their products this, including of course their very own pianos. It's not *arrogance* as is often assumed by outsiders - but an age old reliance of time honoured tradition of top quality. No messing around - no *guessing* necessary! After all, we all know each other over there for a very long time.... Norbert
Last edited by Norbert; 08/22/09 04:54 PM.
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Larry Fine actually does make it clear that being in Group 2 as opposed to Group 1 could be purely a matter of not having 'yet earned as much prestige':
"The pianos in Group 2 are also fabulous, but are in second place here either because their workmanship is not quite as refined as the first group, or because their musical designs are considered slightly less desirable, or perhaps because their names have not yet earned as much prestige value as those in Group 1." (p. 44)
I take this to mean that it is possible for a Group 2 piano to be of the exact same quality as a Group 1 piano.
This makes sense if you look at the list of Group 1 pianos. They are only the 'Giants', as far as reputation, pure and simple: Fazioli, Steingraeber, Bösendorfer, C. Bechstein, Blüthner and Hamburg Steinway.
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Who really cares how top German instruments are rated by Larry Fine outside of a few obsessive, insecure piano enthusiasts in the states?
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Who really cares how top German instruments are rated by Larry Fine outside of a few obsessive, insecure piano enthusiasts in the states?
Aww, now that's not very nice. Judging by the manufacturers who chose to advertise in Larry's latest book . . . at the very least Bösendorfer, Fazioli, Steingraeber and Bechstein seem to care.
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that's a good one, theJourney! that's too funny haha. i know i'm guilty of that too. thanks for putting things in perspective.
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Last year, when Fine said Feurich should probably be ranked in Group 1, his Group 1 included eleven brands divided as 1A, 1B and 1C. And he was criticized for "demoting" Mason and Hamlin to Group 2A.
This year his new Group 1 includes only the six brands listed in last year's 1A category - and the other five brands (formerly 1B and 1C) are now part of the new Group 2 - which includes both Mason and Hamlin and Feurich as well.
The new Group 2 pianos definitely are high-end instruments - but very few folks would argue that they are in the same league as the six brands in Group 1 - formerly Group 1A.
I think Mr. Fine's new ranking system - with the basic alphabetical listings in each group - is brilliant.
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Thing is though, outside of this small community I would wager that Steingraeber shares the same lack of name recognition as Feurich, Grotrian, and Sauter does. So it must be more than just name recognition and prestige that puts Steingraeber in the ultra-elite group one.
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Thing is though, outside of this small community I would wager that Steingraeber shares the same lack of name recognition as Feurich, Grotrian, and Sauter does. So it must be more than just name recognition and prestige that puts Steingraeber in the ultra-elite group one. Fine's words are "names have not earned as much prestige", not "name recognition". Also, even though non PW members certainly aren't familiar with Steingraeber or Feurich, my impression is that among aficinados/techs Steingraeber has been more frequently played than Feurich (perhaps because of Feurich's extremely limited production).
Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/22/09 07:13 PM.
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Last year, when Fine said Feurich should probably be ranked in Group 1, his Group 1 included eleven brands divided as 1A, 1B and 1C. And he was criticized for "demoting" Mason and Hamlin to Group 2A.
This year his new Group 1 includes only the six brands listed in last year's 1A category - and the other five brands (formerly 1B and 1C) are now part of the new Group 2 - which includes both Mason and Hamlin and Feurich as well.
The new Group 2 pianos definitely are high-end instruments - but very few folks would argue that they are in the same league as the six brands in Group 1 - formerly Group 1A.
I think Mr. Fine's new ranking system - with the basic alphabetical listings in each group - is brilliant.
I think the first post in this thread and the above post show what happens so often with the Fine rankings. It is only human nature for people to take things personally, even if they claim not to, in terms of the rankings. When was the last time someone said that even though they owned Piano X, they thought their piano X's new lower ranking was justified or possibly justified? (Well, actually I said that  when Mason was "moved" to Group IIA, but I also admit I wish it hadn't been placed there. And I can't think of anyone else who said something like this) The original poster owns a Feurich and upset that it is not in group I. The above poster who owns a Mason(as I do) is pleased because Mason is now in the same class as last year's Groups IB and IC.
Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/22/09 07:07 PM.
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Thing is though, outside of this small community I would wager that Steingraeber shares the same lack of name recognition as Feurich, Grotrian, and Sauter does. So it must be more than just name recognition and prestige that puts Steingraeber in the ultra-elite group one. This is a very interesting point. In fact wherever these pianos are known on the market, few doubt about their absolute first class status. As for myself, first time I ran into Pfeiffer pianos I couldn't belive my eyes...ahem ....*ears* Forever in memory are certain unforgettable pianos by Feurich, Ibach, Thuermer, Start & Sons and Pianova. The point is, when a company is so small making only a handful of units, should they be *rated* at all - especially on an international basis? How do you rate "Kulmbacher Abteibrau" when they are selling this unbelievable brew only within a a 30 mile radius?  Companies making only a few units don't need somebody's ratings from 10,000 miles away - nor do consumers who will be hardpressed to ever come across any one of them. In fact piano shoppers could be 'misled' by believing they could be looking at some *second rate pianos* simply because somebody in a backalley of the Black Forest is tooling a few top notch- kick-ass instruments for his own neigbours and family friends.... Not to be meant literally - Peiffer is actually doing very well in France - but am trying to make a point. By the way for the Germans these day, the French are friends and neighbours too..... Norbert 
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FWIW I just wrote Larry Fine because Hardman and Peck is not on his 'good vintage piano brands' list, and he replied to me immediately. Terry, maybe you could just email him (maybe you already have) and he'll tell you why Feurich is where it is on his ranking.
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FWIW I just wrote Larry Fine because Hardman and Peck is not on his 'good vintage piano brands' list, and he replied to me immediately. Terry, maybe you could just email him (maybe you already have) and he'll tell you why Feurich is where it is on his ranking. Another example of what I mentioned in my previous post.
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