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#1785892 - 11/09/11 01:34 PM Rythmic problems!
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Just thought I'd have a go at a Diana Ross Remix I like, to find I'm having great problems keeping rythym with my left hand. As soon as I attempt to play with my right hand, the rythym just goes completely. Here's what I'm trying to do.

This is the rythym with the left.


This is what I want to play, (I've had to record the bass seperately to demonstrate)


Any explanations to why this happens?
Any tips?
Or is it a case of just keep trying?

Cheers Guys & Gals

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#1785906 - 11/09/11 02:06 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
spanishbuddha Online   content
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Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2359
Loc: UK
Have you tried synching on the first note in a bar? I don't know the piece but maybe use the LH as the timing and synch the RH as appropriate.

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#1785916 - 11/09/11 02:30 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I'm finding this hard to explain, but as soon as I start to play the melody with my right hand, my left automatically starts playing

1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4

instead of

1(for 2beats) 2 (for 2beats), 1 2 3 4, 1(for 2beats) 2(for 2beats), 1 2 3 4

I hope that makes sense

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#1785937 - 11/09/11 03:22 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
JimF Offline
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Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1719
Loc: south florida
Figure out how to correctly count it out loud, then play the first phrase or first few measures, while counting out loud, at about 20% of the tempo in the video. If doing this HT proves too much, then do it HS first. Only start to speed it up once you can do it slowly without error 5 times HT. Walk before you run.
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Ma Mere L'Oye - Ravel
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#1785940 - 11/09/11 03:27 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
sorry for my ignorance, but what do the HT and HS abbreviations stand for?

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#1785955 - 11/09/11 03:54 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Starr Keys Offline
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Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Hands together and Hands separately. smile

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#1785958 - 11/09/11 03:57 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Ok, maybe I have got the rythym wrong, and maybe it's 123, 123, 123, 123.

I haven't got a score for this as it's by ear!


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#1785959 - 11/09/11 04:01 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: Starr Keys]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Hands together and Hands separately. smile


lol, thnx smile

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#1785960 - 11/09/11 04:03 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Wayne, you might also try this twist on Hands Separately. It sometimes works for me. Try tapping out the left hand rhythm instead of playing. Use the wood on the piano or your lap--wood is better. Then try tapping and singing the melody. Finally, try tapping while playing the melody. Then play hands together.



Edited by Starr Keys (11/09/11 04:04 PM)

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#1785972 - 11/09/11 04:32 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
pmsl, I'm even finding that difficult, but great idea, thnx smile

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#1785981 - 11/09/11 04:47 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
TheodorN Offline
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1193
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
wayne32yrs, I think you mentioned sometime you had the Piano for all package, but correct me if I'm wrong. The reason I ask is that Robin says there are some rhytmic patterns common to most pop/rock music, and that you have to learn those rhytms long before you learn all the fancy right hand licks. You have to be able to play them in your sleep, as he puts it.

Just my two cents, as you call it. But tell me, what song is this, because I'm quite familiar with the nostalgic disco tunes of that great woman singer, Diana Ross? Would like to learn at least some of them in the future.
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#1785987 - 11/09/11 05:07 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Errr no, I haven't got piano for all!

The song is a remix version of "love hangover", I was using this remix as an inspiration for a piano solo.

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#1785989 - 11/09/11 05:11 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Here's the remix.......


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#1786006 - 11/09/11 05:34 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Would you be able to write out the separate parts for yourself as a normal combined 2 stave piano part? If you can do this and carefully line up the beats between the two parts I think seeing the spatial connection between the two parts could be a useful guide. You'd know then where the LH and RH coincide and where certain notes come 'in between' others.

You'd have to play it slowly to begin with..

- just a thought..

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#1786014 - 11/09/11 05:50 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
I think I could manage that, will give it a go, thank you smile

I'm planning on playing it in D minor, chords Dm, Gm, Bb/C then transitioning to Dm, (C#,E,G) (I don't know this chord lol, is it c# diminished)(this is the bit I'm stuggling with the rythym) Hope I'm making sense smile

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#1786019 - 11/09/11 06:00 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
- yes that's c#dim.

Hope to see the final vid when you've mastered it!

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#1786025 - 11/09/11 06:04 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Cheers, if I do lol smile

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#1786027 - 11/09/11 06:07 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1193
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
Just opened the video of the remix, and got this related video up. Can't resist this soulful song, everytime it gets me, that golden oldie.

Julie London - Cry Me A River

Does anybody know of a good soul disc with this song, and maybe others like it, Everytime You Say Goodbye with Ella Fitzgerald, Louis Armstrong and such artists?

PS Hope this is not considered a thread hijacking!
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http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

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#1786110 - 11/09/11 09:29 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: wayne32yrs
I'm finding this hard to explain, but as soon as I start to play the melody with my right hand, my left automatically starts playing

1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4

instead of

1(for 2beats) 2 (for 2beats), 1 2 3 4, 1(for 2beats) 2(for 2beats), 1 2 3 4

I hope that makes sense

Wayne, the rhythm you're playing with your left hand is, in your language, 1 (for 2 beats), 2 (for 1 beat), 3 (for 2 beats), 4, 5, 6.

It is syncopated. Counted in a more standard way, it is 1-2, 3, 4-5, 6, 7, 8. That's if you hear the fast notes as a beat, where the hyphenated numbers mean one longer note. I hear the fast notes as eighth notes, so would count this as a single 4/4 measure: ONE and TWO AND three AND FOUR AND. The all-cap words are where you are playing; the lower case words are where you are holding.
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Ebaug(maj7)

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#1786112 - 11/09/11 09:33 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3181
Loc: Maine
If you're writing the music out, it's quarter, eighth, quarter, eighth, eighth, eighth. Or half, quarter, half, quarter, quarter, quarter, but writing it with the shorter note values makes more sense to me given the feel of the music.
_________________________
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#1786147 - 11/09/11 11:22 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: Starr Keys]
Rostosky Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 3339
Loc: Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Try tapping out the left hand rhythm instead of playing. Use the wood on the piano or your lap--wood is better.



I seriously hope you didnt want wayne to tap on his "lap--wood" whilst struggling with this piece?
LOL.
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#1786480 - 11/10/11 02:18 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: TheodorN]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1719
Loc: south florida
pianothead,

I've got three recordings of Cry Me a River.

Brad Mehldau - Art of The Trio Vol 5
Jaimee Paul - At Last
Joe Cocker - Live, Vol 1

The first is jazz piano, second is jazz vocal, and third is Cocker's classic rock cover. I like em all and think Meldau's is the most soulful.

Sorry for the Hijack Wayne32. Any more on this and we should take it to a different thread.
_________________________
La Fille aux cheveux de lin - Debussy
Ma Mere L'Oye - Ravel
Mozart Sonata K545

Estonia L190 #7284





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#1786487 - 11/10/11 02:24 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: Rostosky]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Originally Posted By: Pianotehead
Just opened the video of the remix, and got this related video up. Can't resist this soulful song, everytime it gets me, that golden oldie.

Julie London - Cry Me A River

Does anybody know of a good soul disc with this song, and maybe others like it, Everytime You Say Goodbye with Ella Fitzgerald, Louis Armstrong and such artists?

PS Hope this is not considered a thread hijacking!


Like the Julie London - Cry me a river smile

Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
If you're writing the music out, it's quarter, eighth, quarter, eighth, eighth, eighth. Or half, quarter, half, quarter, quarter, quarter, but writing it with the shorter note values makes more sense to me given the feel of the music.


That's me totally bamboozled!

Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Try tapping out the left hand rhythm instead of playing. Use the wood on the piano or your lap--wood is better.



I seriously hope you didnt want wayne to tap on his "lap--wood" whilst struggling with this piece?
LOL.



this would be slightly distracting Rossy!

JimF, no probs, honest smile

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#1786489 - 11/10/11 02:26 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
It's took me half hour just to do this bit, don't know if it's correct or not.


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#1786504 - 11/10/11 02:47 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
Just had a go at playing it, and, nope it's wrong, gees, things seem easy till you go and actually try it!

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#1786543 - 11/10/11 03:48 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
Wayne, it should look something like this:-



- I've only done the first 2 bars as a guide so you can have a crack at the remainder..

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#1786564 - 11/10/11 04:26 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
wayne33yrs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 1859
Loc: Sheffield UK
thanx so much dire tonic for your help smile

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#1786578 - 11/10/11 04:41 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1193
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
wayne32yrs, do you count the beats out loud? I think that helps, though it may be difficult in this case, since the rhytmic patterns are so different in the bass and the clef, respectively? We've got two hands, but only one mouth!

Still, you can count out hands seperately and that maybe prepares you better for putting the hands together.
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

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#1786607 - 11/10/11 05:36 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: wayne33yrs]
dire tonic Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1281
Loc: uk south
- you're welcome, only another 14 bars to go! Well, at least the LH will be easy since the rhythm doesn't change.

Don't forget, you're writing in 4/4 so that can be any combination, in any order, of notes and/or rests amounting to a total of 4 crotchets (= 8 quavers) in the bar. Anything other than that and the bar can't make musical sense.

If you get stuck I can offer another tip but in the meantime give it your best shot!


Edited by dire tonic (11/10/11 05:45 PM)

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#1786608 - 11/10/11 05:46 PM Re: Rythmic problems! [Re: Rostosky]
Starr Keys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: Rostosky
Originally Posted By: Starr Keys
Try tapping out the left hand rhythm instead of playing. Use the wood on the piano or your lap--wood is better.


I seriously hope you didnt want wayne to tap on his "lap--wood" whilst struggling with this piece? LOL.


No, that's one way to improve one's rhythm I hadn't thought of. Glad to see you haven't lost your sense of humor, Rossy. You must be feeling better. smile


Edited by Starr Keys (11/10/11 05:49 PM)

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