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Well, to be honnest, AFAIK, I am the only one that made the assumption that the "guidance" / "firmness" has slightly improved, or was varying from one casio "floor" model to another one (depending on "how" they are used/ageed ?). So this is not a "fact", just my personnal assumption. If someone can confirm this impression, then we will have the beginning of a clue, but by now, this i not the case, even for me (I am far from an expert (rather the opposite ), so my perception is absolutely not reliable, even if I try to make my own opinion based on my own testing).

James, thank you for your comments on Classical vs. Modern piano. I'll keep my eye out for a PX-330 to investigate further.

I just got around to reading the report and saw the slide show. Excellent! Thanks.

One thing that surprised me, there didn't seem to be much traffic. The Messe over here is a zoo.

Well, I have no accoustic piano at home to test, but in my memory, if you sustain a powerfull chord, you have the feeling that the sound is "moving all along the box (like waves or turning sounds)". I don't kwow how to explain, they are repeated "variations" in time (at Hz and sub Hz frequency). More on the medium and the bass I believe.
I don't know if it is related to "reflections" in the box (that means that the box (size and material) and localization of sound emitters matters), or this is simple "resonance" betweens all the vibrating harmonics of every chords, so polyphonies of samples are suffiscient to give the same effect with a DP ?

I don't think anyone can mistake the sound of the CFX for the CF-IIIS, and as Kawai James had recently played the N3, I'd have thought he'd immediately notice the difference if the N1 he played used CFX samples. Certainly, the (new) N1 on display in the London store that I visited recently used CF-IIIS samples and sounded identical (via headphones) to the old N3 there.

And.....I'm pretty sure that Yamaha would shout it from the skies if they had a DP on display that used CFX samples, probably even more than they did for the real CFX acoustic grand during its launch last year.

Thank you James for sharing your thoughts and pictures.

No such luck. Though I am sitting on a few samples, just need to find some time to review them.


Ha ha, thanks!

And thanks too for the Casio key grease bombshell. I can't keep up with all of the exciting new developments in DP technology.

Why are you sarcastic? It is important to know. I am a newcomer in this forum, but every one told me DP were std and stable, so reliable and trustworthy. And may be this is not true, I need to know... We are talking about object that cost hundreds or thousands of euros and people will go with for several years. And anyway, mechanical and physics are also important technical aspects. Do you know if your DP need grease, or engineers could avoid using it in your DP ? Do you know if you so beloved "key action" will be stable with time ?

Yes, the keys require lubrication.

The sarcasm in dewster's phrase "exciting new developments in DP technology" is quite apt.

Pianos change very little over time. Most of the "innovation" is in the marketing terminology, while little is done to improve the pianos.

So a new kind of lubricant is about as exciting a development as we've seen in the past ten years.

Some would say too stable.

I think what many of us are looking for is a blend of DP and PC technology: the large unlooped and unstretched sample sets of PC pianos, coupled with the blended layers, key resonance, half-pedaling, and overall integration of Digital pianos. It's entirely possible to do this now, particularly with fast cheap processors, exceedingly cheap DRAM, and Flash memory nearing $1USD/GB (retail) - but for whatever reason you won't find this even in the super high-end DPs (AvantGrand, etc.). So if you want the best sound you have to DIY, which is nuts.

Gonna build one? When will mine be ready?

You are sure this is always required, or this is your assumption ?
And the point with casio DP was about "wriggling" or "loose" keys, and their degradation with ageing. So adding lubrication will not help (except if lubricant (or absence of) nibble keys, that then begin to wriglle).


Well strange, this is not my perception. But this maybe because I am a newbie, and I learned a lot of (old) innovation quickly...
Nevertheless, just during my research (a couple of month), I have seen many changes : new kawai CL-36, new roland f-120, rp301, new korg-sp170, new casio pX-135. Perhaps there is no innovation in these models, but the entry level offering has completly changed, even without innovation.
So buying is something difficult for newbie, looks like everythings is changing, and you don't know what changes really matter.

But ok, I understand better the post (sorry I have no background, and this is not my native language, so sometime, I mistake)...

Do it dewster!

An MP10 with one of these mounted inside would really hit the spot!



http://www.techspot.com/review/447-intel-dh61ag-apple-glen-mini-itx/

Cheers,
James
x

Or spend a small fortune buying the V-piano.

Ok, we cross post !
I get it. I agree with you, the convergence between computer and DP should be very quick, considering the value / cost ratio.
My current understanding, is that big brand are in monopoly , and agree (its easy they are 3) to not destroy their high end DP models and AP too quickly, to protect their margin/ profits.

What's holding this back?

I think these good ideas cost money. But would people pay more money for pianos with the extra benefits? If not, the extra cost would just serve to reduce profitability.

One way or the other, Yamaha knows. Roland knows. Kawai knows. (It's their job to know.)

Sweet! I've certainly got my eye on the FM1 socketed AMDs, and my next build will be mini-ITX. The hardware is pretty easy and cheap now. Not sure I'd go the Intel processor (or Intel in AMD's clothes) route for a DP though - grabbing the PC tiger by the tail can be difficult for corporations peddling highly integrated embedded solutions.

And this isn't something easily done by an outsider - it would take years to develop algorithms for key resonance, half pedaling, etc. - stuff DP manufacturers like Kawai can just pull off the shelf and whip out. The falling-off-a-log solution here is for Kawai to build an unlooped MP10 - I'm baffled why something like that doesn't currently exist.

Hmm. I think pure modeling is certainly getting there. But until it completely does, I'd prefer a good sample of the real thing, with "modeled" elements like key resonance, etc.

Well, if I were Roland, not positioned in the [5000€ .. 50000€] of acoustic piano, I would like to sell an high-end DP, something that can compete in term of quality, but that cost me less, so I invest in sound generation. In term of production cost : 300€ for a keyboard, 300€ for an embedded computer, 300€ for amplification and speakers => A V-piano for 1000€ to manufacture, and target 5000€ as selling point. I enter the market with a stage piano, and then I try to compete with "regular" accoustic.

If I were yamaha or kawai, I would want to be positionned in DP market, to control the dirsuptive digital technology, that can ruin my accoustic profits (so protect my future). But, well, I would remain non agressive with my AP line to protect my present revenues (not cannibalize my product with margin). At the contrary, I would accept to lower my margin on low to mid level product, to empech my challenger in disruptive technology, to growth, and stay "blocked" in between in a nich market.

So probably, this "balance" of power slow down the adavance of thechnology. Everybody knows how they can beat, and be beaten back. So if every body stay "calm", and don't attack, and everbody can make its money, and "balance" stay stable.

Mean time, every body in the piano forum, knows the game has changed, buy a cheap DP, and add cheap SW Piano to DYI their innovative DP...

I think Yamaha and Kawai have the technology, but they don't wan't to move, except being forced. They get ready to counter strike, but only if necessary...