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Hello,

I'm looking for a heavy key action DP.. I wish I could get an AvantGrand, but that's just too much money for my blood. Here are some of the actions:

Yamaha: GH / GH3
Kawai: RH / RM3
Casio: Tri-sensor scaled hammer action keyboard
Roland: PHA III

Unfortunately I haven't been able to try any of the actions above. But I was able to try out PHA II and found it kind of light.

Which action would you all consider as heavy (acoustic-like)?

Thanks!

Nicolas

I can tell you that the Yamaha GH3 is heavier than the Roland PHA III.

Don't know about the Casio, but otherwise RM3 is the most naturally heavy on that list.

Kawai RH3 is the most authentic action on that particular list.

Aren't heavier actions more prone to injuring players? This is actually one area where I think DPs could potentially have it all over APs.

I should've said that by heavy I mean close to the weight of an AP.

If you can find a Kawai used MP8 (original version) or concurrent wood-action Kawai it's about as heavy and still authentic as digital pianos ever got. AWA pro action, I believe. Kawai has backed off a bit on the weight but it's still probably heavier than Roland. The MP8 was heavy like a heavy acoustic action, while current models are heavy like a medium action.

The Yamahas will be heavier than a Roland as well. Not sure how current Kawai's compare with current Yamahas, actually. You never see them in the same store, it seems like.

I can say that the Roland PHA III is still a grand piano action for all intent and purpose and is on the lighter side of an acoustic grand but would be on the heavy side compared to an acoustic upright piano.

I can say with certainty that if you play an acoustic upright piano at home, the PHA III will feel a little bit heavier than that. If you normally play a concert style grand piano, then depending on which model you play, the PHA III will feel lighter on most occasions.

Like I said, I grew up on an acoustic upright Yamaha. So I prefer the PHA III because it most closely resembles the feel of that acoustic I grew up with.

The casio has a suprisingly heavy action...and its extremely lightweight.. the px3 i have has got a nice feel and is almost a little to heavy for my touch, but better than too light!
Phil

"Heavy" and "acoustic-like" are not the same thing. First, there are many attributes of a real piano action that may or may not be emulated in a digital simulation, and weight is only one of them. Second, and more importantly, acoustic pianos themselves vary a lot on how heavy the keys feel. In fact, the keys on the Yamaha GH digital pianos (CP33, P155, CP300) feel noticeably heavier than the keys on my Yamaha C6 grand piano. The keys on the Yamaha CP1 and CP5 are much lighter than the GH keys, and to me, feel closer to a real Yamaha grand piano.

So, getting back to the specific models you asked about, I would say that the Casio feels least like a real acoustic piano; and I don't think there would be any agreement about which of the others feel most like a real acoustic piano. Roland PHA III feels lightest, though. The Kawais and Yamahas you mention are all on the heavier side.

I agree with pretty much everything anotherscott says.

I have a Kawai wooden action piano (RM3 action) and a GH equipped Yamaha CP33. The Yamaha is heavier. It is also heavier than my AvantGrand. So if it's heavy you want, Yamaha GH action is the one. But as anotherscott points out, heavy doesn't necessarily mean better or more piano-like.

Thanks for all the replies. I definitely need to try out more digital pianos especially the Roland ones.

In my opinion you said that with more than the appropriate amount of certainty. Uprights, in particular, have a wide range of weights, and many are heavier than most grands. My experience in general has been that the upright actions I play are at least as heavy has the grands, therefore I don't think you can rank PHA3 between the weights of uprights and grands.

However, all three of the actions mentioned are in the range spanned by acoustics, both grands and uprights, so you you are right that heavy is not equivalent to acoustic-like.

If "heavy key action" is what you want then the "GH" is the one to get. I will not argue it is the best over all, but if heavy is what you need the lowest cost DP for you would be the Yamaha P155.

It is instructive to look, on a computer, at the MIDI velocity numbers. I was astounded to find out how hard I had to play a P155 to get close to MIDI velocity 127. It seemed like I was physically abusing the keyboard. It takes quite a bit of physical effort. If that is what you are looking for then it's GH. But on the P155 after I did allow myself to really pound the keys I notice the timbre changes. You need to do that to get into that 5th velocity layer.

I agree. I can't think for a moment it is possible to say to someone, "if you play an upright (any upright) then the Roland PHA-III will be heavier". The Roland action is very quick and responsive and is well regarded but surely one can only say that it is lighter than some acoustic actions (upright and grand) and heavier than others. On the overall scale I would imagine it is true to say it is perhaps by a small margin on the lighter side. I don't think it is possible to say much more than that.