In fact, you are wasting your money to watch a professional play slow pieces. Anyone who disagrees with me, give me a convincing argument to the contrary, other than saying that you want to see your favourite pianist.

You know, phrased in that aggressive "chip on the shoulder" way, you seem mostly interested in a fight. Give us a reason to think you are actually open to reason.

First it would be helpful if you'd give US a convincing argument to support YOUR statement.

Anyone who disagrees with me, give me a convincing argument to the contrary, other than saying that you want to see your favourite pianist.

For starters, let's hear something from you, musically speaking that is. (I see a silent profile. ) It's one thing to sit at home and play something flawlessly, it's quite another to play that same piece in front of hundreds who have paid good money to hear you.

You first.

Technical and musical skills usually/often go together. Most accomplished professional pianists have far greater musical understanding than most amateurs in addition to having far greater technical skills. Lessons at conservatories aren't just about technique. And high level technique is not just about playing fast...it applies to slow pieces also.

I think one can often more easily hear the difference between a terrific professional pianist and a typical amateur pianist when listening to a piece that does not demand virtuoso technique. If I hear a pianist performing Gaspard de la Nuit I cannot judge their performance so well because that piece is so far from my level of playing. But if I hear them play a Chopin Nocturne I can hear clearly so many differences(technical and musical) between how I would/could play it and their performance.

This is such a stupid thread..... Must resist posting.......... Must!

lol

i was going to write a very big essay. then i realised you posted something much simpler and the same point i was going to make.

+1

LOL!!! Save yourself!!! Run for your life!!!

Seriously, the first thought I had when I read this post was the peformance Pianoloverus posted in the "Bach but Different" thread last night, of Jonathan Plowshares playing a transcription of the Sarabande from Cello Suite No. 6, a recording which pretty much took my breath away.

So there. Wasting my money? Ha-ha-ha! What a ludicrous and asinine idea, mr. bob. Put up your dukes, you duck! Oh, and welcome to Piano World.

The proof of my assertion is so easy. I should present 10 amateur performances and 10 professional performances of slow pieces. NO ONE here will be able to identify which ones are amateur and which ones are professional.

I'm sorry. I just can't keep away!

Personally, I don't "watch." I listen.

Had enough?

You're ON, buddy! Do it! Let's go!

indeed, somebody here have no idea about playing instrument obviously since more musicians agree that playing slow, especially very slow pieces is usually way more challenging then fast tunes.

I have not been posting very much lately, if at all, but could not resist responding to this thread...

There are lots of good amateurs, and lots of really great amateurs, but for starters, I'd like you to provide examples to prove your point with these slow pieces. I'll just sit back and enjoy what you discover.

Here are four slow piece played by professionals - please provide your good amateur comparisons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzUAkfjDxG0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqgFzJURtU4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7f6Bs3TPYQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eliGmH9lgEE

I've been reflecting on this some more, and I can't help but laugh! I don't know how long you've been lurking here, bobmckay, but I'm the one usually rolling my eyes or raising my hackles when Pianoloverus makes the opposite argument--that no one BUT a professional can play anything worth listening to, and that we should all worship at their holy feet.

So, bring in on, bub! Seriously. But be fair about it. Do your homework. Don't give us professionals who had a bad night. Present everyone, amateurs and pros, at their best. Find your recordings and post them individually, without labels or titles, to boxnet or soundcloud or something so we can all get at them easily. Then, we will apply the Dave Horne method and assess the performances as objectively as possible, using standard musical terms, e.g. dynamics, phrasing, articulation, tempo, etc.

I have several problems with your argument. But I want to see what you give us to listen to. 20 recordings. Put up, or shut up.

--Andy

Oh, please, stop feeding trollish behavior.

The top amateurs, the ones who can compete effectively at major competitions, are "name only" amateurs. Comparing their performances with the "pros" is silly. They ARE pros in the common understanding of the term (given their past training, their practice regimen, and their musical knowledge). Trying to concoct some playoff with cherry picked performances is really stupid, and especially so if you allow the troll to do the cherry picking.

You want to compare decent amateurs to pros? Then get recordings from people like ....., ME, and compare my work to Arrau or Argerich. When I have had a really good day at the bench, I can play a luscious slow Debussy prelude pretty well. When I'm done I luxuriate in the pleasant thought that my effort may have just approached what so-and-so could do. Then I go and listen to so-and-so and realize yet again why so-and-so has a recording contract and I don't.

Please, Piano*Dad! I want to fight!

And, really, I am interested to see what mr. bobmckay might come up with.

One of my problems with the original assertion is with the distinction (amateur vs. pro) itself, as you noted. The topic is "musicianship."

Keep that recorder going, Piano*Dad! I love Debussy, even on a bad day!

Yeah, that I why when Phil Mickelson is standing over a 3 ft putt to win a golf tournament, I switch off the TV, cause anyone can make a 3 footer....

Why argue with someone who obviously has no clue what they're talking about? Let him go on with his shallow delusions..

And don't think that the professional is playing these slow pieces better just because he shows more expression on his face and moves his body more artistically.

My only disagreement here is that, using myself as an example, I have the musical understanding of what I want to do, I just can't do it!

I gave four decent examples of slow pieces played by professionals (none of them are shown moving around or showing facial expressions), so perhaps we can hear some good players play those same pieces played equally as well as provided by the OP. I will just lurk now...

You may have just inspired me! I have played "the Girl" for a number of years, but I have never made a video. Perhaps I'll give it a try. I don't think any pro will be quaking over the potential competition from the likes of me.

There are amateurs who play as well as professionals. It does not matter whether the music is fast or slow. There are different degrees of professionals, as well as amateurs. Everyone starts as an amateur.

Here's a quick way for you to prove your point. One piece, winner take all :>)

Here's Rubensteins performance of Brahms Op 118 no 2. Also Glen Gould's. It's a slowish piece and not technically difficult. Find a no-name performance that's even in the same ballpark as these.

It's a popular piece, so shouldn't be hard to make your case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqBzK5tKFVc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JwKDzPlYQs

Bob, the quality of the tone is different. Just from the first several notes, people usually can tell whether a piece was played by a professional or an amateur. In addition, the layering is totally in different class.

How advance is your piano playing? I think the more you know, the more you will find out that it is impossible to play like real professionals. On the surface, it sounds the same, but it is not.

And don't insult our intelligence like that. Rubinstein sat quietly at the piano and played his Chopin Nocturnes in such a way that no one could confuse him with any amateur.

While it is obvious you have a strong opinion - one which you are entitled to, of course - the antagonism in your post doesn't invite discussion. Enjoy the music in whatever form and from whatever performers please you.

Speaking as an amateur, my convincing argument is that you're wrong.

I love that word, hahahahahah. Sums up the OP's first post pretty well.