How does a used (1988) Yamaha C3 compares to a used (brand new apparently!) Young Chang Pramberger 7'6" (YP-228) advertised by a private party for $7500? I know condition is everything, but this seems to be a very decent piano for a lesser price. Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

The YC is apparently a very nice piano. And at that size, it'd probably trump the C3. The C3 is 6'1", while the Prambergers is 7'6". A world of difference usually.

Good luck!

From middle C upwards, probably not much difference or the C3 may sound better (depends on the voicing of both); but from middle C downwards I'd say the YC would probably have a deeper, richer bass just based on pure physics and the longer bass strings.

If you have the room, go for the bigger piano... I think that is what I said in your other thread.

Have you played them and compaired them?

Get the one you like best...

Rick

Wait a sec...

The panino is not new, as such. It mightn't have been played much, that might be what the sellers mean. Because YC Prambergers were made a while ago, before the Pramberger name was sold to Samick. Please, experts, correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the seller used the term "new" and meant to say "like new". It's been my experience that most pianos listed on Craigslist are not actually what they are advertized to be. "Buyer beware".

Rick

The seller said that she bought it new a few weeks ago. Apparently, it was in some sort of showroom for some time and now she needs to sell it...I am not sure about the details. Is there any ways to find out from the serial number (J0021525) when it was built? YC does not seem to have a serial number search page like Yamaha does. Thanks!

The serial number JP228RS BP actually suggests that this is a Pramberger (hence made by Samick?). Any major differences between YC Pramberger and Pramberger brands in terms of sound and overall quality? Sorry to keep adding details to my post (unfortunately, I am an Engineer ; ), and thanks in advance for your comments.

The YC and Samick versions are different but both well-regarded. Contact the manufacturer by phone (have you figured which one? :p) and see if they know more about this individual piano; at least get its age and warranty status.

Also think about hiring a tech to inspect it before you buy. Wow, a 7-footer

The YC Pramberger is a design done BY Joseph P. for YC for a more "european" voiced piano line. The Samick Pramberger is a NAME put on a piano of a different design. Jopseph P was already deceased when the rights to the name was acquired by SMC. What is left of the Pramberger scale design is found in some of the Albert Weber pianos built by YC. I haven't played the SMC Pramberger so I can't comment on whether or not it's a "good" piano. I'm more than satisfied with my Pramberger upright which was bought as new old stock for a very good price.


You can call YC directly to check the serial number.

Kurt

Stranger things have happened, I suppose, but this sounds strange to me. Why buy a new 7 foot piano and then offer it for sale a few weeks later?

I think I'd ask about the details before any money changes hands...

Good luck.

Rick

Well...I just saw the piano and it is absolutely gorgeous, although it will be regulated, voiced and tuned tomorrow. Apparently, the seller bought it from a dealer at a reduced price (about 15k) and it has been sitting inside a model home as a piece of furniture for a few weeks. The seller does not have any paper works (no warranty?!?!) on the piano, which was built in 2010-11. She could provide me with the telephone number of the person she bought it from, though...I know, it all sounds fishy! However, the seller encouraged me to bring a technician with me to verify that all of her claims are true = she seems to be confident about the quality of her piano. I do not know what to think...if it looks, feels, and sounds good...in a sense that is all I care about, right?

P.S. I wish I were a millionaire...that way I could buy a new Bosendorfer imperial for 150k and get it over with...lol Thanks for your comments/suggestions. It is nice to have some support!

If the Pramberger was, indeed, built in 2010-11 - then it is a Samick product, not YC. The reduced price of $15K seems almost too good to be true - unless the dealer was really desperate. By all means try to talk to the person she bought it from.

It sounds very strange that someone who bought a piano just a few weeks ago for $15,000 is now trying to sell the same piano for $7500, taking a loss of $7500.
And no paperwork, not even a receipt of purchase?

I'd be very cautious. Besides the condition of the piano I'd want to know this person legally owns this piano.

It does sound a bit strange but if she is willing to give you the dealer's name and phone number then you can call him and find out what the story is. Make sure it is a real dealer and not just some anonymous voice on the telephone.
Even if a real estate company wanted it for a display at a model house they would generally rent one or make some sort of arrangement. It doesn't make sense that they would buy it new and only use it for display for a few weeks and sell it for almost nothing.
Something seems fishy here.

But how often do you get stolen pianos?
Is it actually a problem?
It takes some organization to actually steal a piano let alone one that's over 7 feet.

That's true. If it was that recent, It would be a Samick product.

it'd be a very nice piano at a very good price. I'd bring a tech in case, but it does look quite OK... Which is good.

Best of luck with this piano!

Worry less about the sellers description and focus on what you can verify about the piano itself. I know YC made a Pramberger 228 in the early 2000's. If nearly new, or 10-12 years old, it's still a more interesting instrument than a 1980's C3. I'd pursue it in spite of the seller's confusion.

If it's cheap, it's partly because it is so big, it doesn't have continuity of make or model. That won't make it worth more in 20 years, but it will have always been a much more expensive instrument than a C3. A 2004 YC Pram 228's MSRP is still higher than a MSRP on a C3 today. That's not a yardstick, but it should give you some idea that the Pramberger was always intended to be a better instrument.

If something has gone wrong, then do be careful. But we just hope there is nothing fishy. Ive never heard of stolen pianos myself.

I just called the Young Chang company and gave them the serial number of the piano I am interested in. Well...it was built at the end of 2002 and not in 2010-11 as the seller told me. The warranty is non-transferable, and that is why it does not have one. Could it be a stolen piano? Maybe, but stealing a 900+ lb instrument does not seem likely. I am trying to find a few more info on the seller. Apparently, she is some sort of local piano dealer/distributor, but that is not her only job. This is kind of frustrating...yet exciting...lol. I am really curious to hear how the piano sounds tomorrow once it has been professionally tuned and regulated.
Soooo...2002 Premberger JP228...still a good deal at $7500 (...and yes, assuming that my tech gives me his blessing)? Re-re-re-thanks!


A.

Yes. It'd be a good deal. The piano was designed by Mr Pramberger, then. It's definitely a YC product. That's not a bad thing. If the tech gives it a blessing, it's be a very nice piano at a very good price.

I really like my YP-208. When I was shopping Yamaha and Kawai were both in the running with Young Chang. I found the YC to be a mid deeper/richer in tone than the Kawai, and MUCH deeper in tone that comparably sized Yamaha's. Of course voicing and prep could have had something to do with that. Regardless, if it is a YP-228 in good condition at $7500 I would jump, a lot of piano for little money.

Of course, if you are like me and love that deep rich american sound, nothing beats a craftfully rebuilt piano from the golden era such as Knabe, Chickering, Steinart, Mason Hamlin, Conover-Cable, Hardmann, Miller, etc.

+1.

Having confirmed the date of manufacture, would YC tell you which dealer it went to? If the dealer is in business, you may be able to make a "chain of custody" of sorts and relieve some concerns about where this piano came from. It's a reasonable way to be careful.

While I don't hear many stories about black market pianos, people will steal anything that they think has value, and that would forfeit your entire purchase. I know of universities that have to chain their benches to their pianos to keep people from walking off with them. The staff can tell you some of the stranger stories imaginable.

New developmets...I talked to a piano tech by phone and he told me that at that price it would be an excellent deal (assuming that the piano is in good/excellent condition, of course). However, he also said that the seller (a local piano dealer) is not very reputable. The piano comes with no warranty and it seems to have no history (no paperwork or chain of custody available). The seller said that the piano was built in 2010-11, but I call Young Chen to verify the serial number and they told me that it was actually built at the end of 2002.

Hmmm...it all sounds fishy...and I think I will pass. Too bad...I was getting excited!

I think the situation you have encountered with the YC Pramberger happens frequently, especially among used piano dealers. If you really want a 7’ YC Pramberger a couple of years old with a warranty, you will likely have to pay much more than $7500. Yet, the piano may still be a good buy and a great piano.

Are you sure you are ready to give up on it? Yes, the dealer/owner of the piano gave you erroneous information on the age (happened to me too at a reputable dealer), and, yes, there is not much in the way of history of the piano... yet that in and of itself does not deminish the potential of the piano; most dealers are reluctant to reveal that kind of information anyway. .

However, what really matters is what kind of condition the piano is in and how does it play and sound? Did a piano tech ever get to check it out? You looked at it and apparently liked it.

Is the reputation of the piano dealer really that bad? Once the piano is yours, you don’t have to deal with them again. If a problem comes up with the piano, you can hire your own tech, which is a good idea anyway.

Good luck, whatever you do!

Rick

2002 makes more sense for the price. So this is not a private party sale afterall?

I think the concern is with handing over $7,500 for someone who misrepresented the instrument, misrepresented it as a private sale when they're really a wheeler-dealer and at least one source reports they have a dodgy reputation.

I wouldn't care if they're selling me a 10-foot Fazioli for $7,500 or the Brooklyn Bridge for $7,500 for that matter. I'd have to have the total warm and fuzzies about the deal before writing that kind of check to someone I just met.

After all, a con man isn't going to offer you an unattractive price now is he?

Exactly why are you "giving up"?
I think you should still check it out, just to see if you can figure out where the catch is, if there is one of course.
There may be a chance that it still could be a good deal.
Not to mention the fact that we're all as curious as heck as to what the real story is.

That is very true. You did like the piano, right?

The piano isn't very likely to fall apart. If you could get the piano, that'd be good. It does seem that the seller is quite confident in the piano, and if there is no conning involved, that would be really good. Are you sure you are giving up? It may look like a con, but sometimes good things happen.

I’m not saying that all used piano dealers do this, but, apparently, a lot of them do… especially the ones I see advertizing regularly on Craigslist. Most of them frequently represent themselves as private sellers or they are down-sizing, or their children have left home and no longer play the piano, or they are moving or need medical care. I’m quite sure they often misrepresent the age of the pianos they sell as well as the history of such.

I do agree that these kinds of sales tactics are unsavory and a cue for caution on the part of a potential buyer. So, the best advice I can offer is “buyer beware”, under any circumstances… do your own homework and have a professional piano technician inspect the instrument and be careful how and when any money changes hands. If you do not feel comfortable about the deal, walk away and keep looking.

Rick

Thanks for your latest comments. It is nice to have some support when support is needed. Well, if you want to know the latest developments on the “curious case of the YC J-228”…buckle up. I actually saw the piano yesterday…gorgeous unit…powerful sounds…but tuning, voicing and regulation were done today. I set up an appointment for this afternoon…I show up in front of the seller house and guess what? She sold it!!! First she said that she sold it 1 hr after I saw it yesterday…then that she sold it today because I did not call her during the day…(how do you curse in writing? Oh yes…..@$$@#%%##^%$#@&*%$#@!!!!!!!!#%^#@#$!!!!!! Ok, breathe…OHMMM) She apologized (which was nice) for the misunderstanding and said that she will have another J-228 from the same year in about 10-14 days and at the same price, and I will be the first one to know. I will give her the benefit of the doubt and see how the other unit looks like. Overall, there could have been some misunderstanding indeed…

Well, at least you won’t have to worry about whether or not you should buy the YC…

Another thing I’ve learned over the years, (since I’ve become interested in pianos)… when a really good deal/bargain comes along, you need to be prepared to act quickly; have every thing in place like the available funds, the piano tech, the mover, etc… If you don’t act quickly, someone else will.

Keep looking and enjoy the journey!

Rick

Hey guys... I just wanted to let you know I am the buyer (sorry Poli). We were certainly not looking at a purchase this big but after seeing it,we couldn't pass! It is absolutely gorgeous and other than a couple of blemishes here and there we bought it the same night we came to see it.
My wife found a local technician to meet us at the home and the guy was simply blown away. I don't know much about pianos but when the technician sat down and played it, it was the most wonderful sound I've heard yet, and it hasn't been tuned! After thoroughly checking out the sound board, strings, hammers, and cosmetic condition, he gave us a HUGE thumbs up. Once we told him how much we were getting it for, he said "Give it to me!!". He couldn't believe what a bargain we got. One thing though.. our technician estimated it was at least 5-7 years old and that it might have come from some kind of piano academy since he said the hammers had wear on it consistent with moderate usage. It certainly isn't brand new as was advertised. However, he said that is not an issue and the rest of the parts are in perfect condition. One feature that is really sweet is that the panel that covers the keyboard is on some sort of lever that closes smoothly once you let it go and technician said that feature was released within the past 10 years. We made a deal with the technician to come out to our home and tune/regulate it once delivered. Well, it was delivered this morning and the technician will be coming out Saturday morning.

I too was alittle weary of this sale especially since the price didn't match up and with the seller's story, it sounded a bit too fishy. However, after looking at the condition of the piano and hearing it, we couldn't pass it up. I made the 2.5 hr trip from South Orange County on Tuesday night in the middle of rush hour traffic and didn't regret it. I was still skeptical so after putting a really small deposit down ($200), I insisted we take the bench and sliding panel that holds up the music sheet as collateral.

I don't know much about the lady that sold it but she trusted us enough to pay the balance of the piano once we go it delivered! She was very nice and we are very pleased with the transaction. She uses a reputable piano moving company and trusts them enough for us to hand over cash to them. They actually delivered it today (Thanksgiving). I spent 2 sleepless nights thinking of everything that can go wrong but since we had the bench and panel, that made me feel a alittle bit at ease.

Poli, just to give you a heads up, her price is NOT set in stone.. If the sellers next one is in any condition that this one is, I think you would be getting a great deal! I can upload pics if anyone is interested.

Thank you and good luck..

Hi h lefty. And, welcome to the forum! Wow, what a story!

If you don't mind me asking, how did you hear about the piano? Did you find out about it by reading Poli's thread on Piano World? Just curious.

Congratulations on your piano, and thanks for sharing your story with us... post pictures when you can.

Rick

H lefty. Many congratulations on a great purchase! Although I am a bit disappointed, at least that piano found a nice home. I was wondering...did you have to pay for shipping? Were you able to get a good deal on that? Apparently your piano should have been voiced and regulated on Wednesday. How does it sound after it has been tuned up? Now that I heard about you positive experience I may contact the seller again to see if she has any other good deal. Overall, she is very nice...it is just that many things about that deal were...well...strange. I am glad it worked out well for you. Many congratulations again and happy Thanksgivig!

We found the piano on CL which is where I assume Poli found it. I found this forum on Wednesday after we had already put down the deposit Tuesday night because I was nervous about it. I didn't want to post anything until the piano was physically in my home just in case I got scammed :P

About shipping.. I think the original price included shipping and tuning and since we struck a deal on Tues. night she never tuned it. We got the price down an extra $650 so we paid for shipping and tuning. Her shipping guy only charged us $200 to ship it about 55 miles south AND on thanksgiving day! The movers were really professional and did a great job. Like I said earlier, we gave the movers the balance for the piano once it was delivered, assembled, and moved into place. We were handed 2 receipts... 1 for the piano paid in full and 1 for the moving. Smooth!

The technician that came out to see the piano with us on Tues. will be coming over on Saturday morning to tune/regulate although I have some family members that played it today and it sounded great. I'm sure it'll sound much better once tuned/regulated.

Here are the pics in case anyone is interested. Everything seems geniune and orignal but if anyone sees anything unusual or iffy, please let me know:

http://hai-lefty.smugmug.com/Category/YC-Pramberger/20251921_djjxPt

All in all, this was out of our price range but after getting this deal done and seeing it in our house, I couldn't be happier. Good luck to you Poli, hope you find a great deal yourself.

Wow.. Great story, lefty!! congratulations on your new-to-you piano! Love the pictures, I looks great!

Good luck!

Awesome! And thanks for the details about the shipping cost. I suppose the piano is in the first floor. I will keep my eyes open for another deal. General question to all of you. How much would it cost to have a piano like that voiced tuned and regulated? Many thanks.

H lefty. Should I end up purchasing a piano from the same dealer may I teller her I "know" you via some Internet blog and I know the details of your transaction? That should increase my negotiating power by quite a bit. Thanks!

Still me. Lefty, if you would like to find out more about the history of your piano you may want to call YC at 3106372000. I called her to verify the serial number (the piano was built at the end of 2002) but they may have more useful information for you.

Nice pictures, Lefty!

The piano does indeed look beautiful in your home!

Rick

Prices vary by locale.
Assuming a pitch raise isn't necessary, $125 is about the going rate where I live in the suburbs of Washington, DC.
Regarding regulation and voicing, I would think $1500 should cover it - but the piano may not need that much work. It depends on the condition. See if the tech who inspects it for you is willing to put half of the inspection fee towards the work to be done.
=======================
I prefer the sound of a good YC or YP to Yamaha or Kawai. One man's opinion. Also, as for the size of the instrument, I would have a hard time turning down a very good 7'4" piano for a Steinway O or similar size Fazioli or Mason & Hamlin of that size. Again - one man's opinion.

Good luck in your hunt.

Thanks for the kind words on our new piano! We really love it... Poli, no problems telling the seller you know us. You can PM me and I can give you my wife's name, they will remember her since she was the deal maker! I was just there to make sure we didn't get ripped off.. hahaha.

Anyways, I already called YC to get some info on this piano and they had absolutely nothing other than the manufacture date was end of 2002 as you've stated. I found that out on Wed. after we had already put our deposit down. We felt it was still a bargain given the condition and praise from our independant technician.

Out of curiosity, would anyone know the appraisal value of this piano after checking out our pics? I'm not looking to flip it but was just wondering.

Thanks everyone!

Wow what a story!! This is just wierd!