At my school, we don't teach music... we teach people. Here is one of my favorite stories to illustrate:

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When she started at our school, Sarah was extremely quiet and shy. For the first few weeks I began each lesson with my usual opening question, "What kind of new and exciting things do you have to tell me this week, Sarah?" She would just shrug her shoulders in an 'I-don't-know' gesture and that would be the end of that conversation.

About a month later, we had our session together, and for some reason I didn't ask Sarah about her week. We got right into our work. We had what I thought was a very productive lesson, learning a lot about music. However, just as we were about to end the class, Sarah turned to me and asked, "Don't you want to know what happened to me this week?"

That marked the first time Sarah spoke to me without my prodding! She had finally built up her courage to speak and she was actually looking forward to telling me her exciting news. I remember feeling bad because I never even bothered to ask her.

You had better believe that from that day on, I have always made it a point to ask each student about his or her week. I think it's one of the most important things I do!
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Note to other teachers: the old axiom is still true today, "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."

Warmest wishes from cold and snowy Toronto,
Russ

I was digging though the archives and found this 7-year-old post, lol.

I agree with this topic because students are not just a cash cow to me, they are human beings with feelings and thoughts. So I try to develop a rapport with them, get to know them, even if music is not their strongest subject.

Some know they are low on musical aptitude but do make an earnest effort and love music. Perhaps they are there instead to learn about patience or discipline, or that it's ok to make mistakes in the learning process. That introverted middle school math bowl champion may grow up to be the Nobel Peace Prize winner who loved music but just couldn't play it like a polished pianist.

Some are quiet and say very little, and that's cool too. But they still communicate with body language and facial expressions, and I work with that. Over time they come out of the shell.

Some teens will tell me stuff they would never tell their parents. lol

No tuition payment can put a price on when students spot me in the grocery store or on the beach during spring break and they come up and talk to me. Or the time a 7-year-old student asked her mom if I could spend the night, lolz. Or when they draw me a picture to take home, or bring me a couple of their neon-pink icing sugar cookies smothered in sprinkles.

I think a rapport of some kind is important.

Tuition sure helps pay for the groceries.

Love it!

I can't believe that was a 7 year old post with no replies. It's such an important topic! No matter how much a student loves music, they won't love studying with you unless you care about them, in and out of the studio.

IMO, it's a rather inflammatory post. Of course, student-teacher relations and interactions is important, and some of us are better at it than others, but it has nothing to do with tuition being charged. Teachers deserve compensation for their work, just as in any other profession. Why even bring up the subject of compensation/tuition unless you're trying to incite hard feelings, an argument, or whatever?

I didn't get the inflammatory feeling from the original post. The second poster I think was just making a point at how nice it is for students to recognize you with fond feelings. (One of my son's teachers never got that reaction...he'd see her at the store and go to another aisle to avoid her!)

I don't think too many of us would teach full time if we didn't need the job, AND loved it!

I was going to add (and should have added) that I think most of us feel the way you do, but I was trying to figure out why no one replied to the original post, and the juxtaposition of two non-related issues really bothered me, especially in light of some of the negative comments we've received recently concerning us "money grubbing" teachers. Why bring money into the discussion at all? The two issues are totally unrelated. FWIW, I have known teachers, both public and private, who give the appearance of "it's just a job" but I suspect that deep down, it's more an issue of not being able to relate well to others. It doesn't make them poor teachers, just not very empathetic teachers. At any rate, let's not get our giblets in a snicker over this!

What is your point? That this is a good thing? If so, I agree.

But if your point is that do this, and the rest of us don't, then I have to scratch my head and wonder where you are going with this...

I agree.

By the way, there are teachers are just plain mean. Some produce fine students, but I think they do huge emotional damage in the process.

There are other teachers who are not particularly "warm", but they are effective in teaching.

Then there are really "nice" people, empathic, who don't know how to teach.

In a perfect world we would all be first rate performers, incredibly good communicators, charming, and so on.

Most days I just TRY not to do any harm.

I know this wasn't necessarily implied in your post, Gary D., but there are also warm teachers who are also effective teachers.

I know the contrary wasn't necessarily implied in your post, Gary D., but there are also warm teachers who are effective teachers.

You did not catch my irony.

I said: "In a perfect world we would all be first rate performers, incredibly good communicators, charming, and so on."

Are the teachers who come close to all those things? Yes. But it is an ideal. Thus my "in a perfect world" comment.

Let me put it another way: I would like to be such a "perfect teachers", but in this lifetime I can only hope to continue to improve.

I once had a teaching job that I liked so much, I didn't mind the fact that it was for relatively low pay .......even though I had to find other work to bring more money in so that I could keep it........

I had a problem with the subject title and opening sentence of the original post written in 2004. Only the person reviving the thread mentioned remuneration. But the subject states "People don't care how much you know!" Oh really? We don't? I guess we care that our mechanic knows about cars, the accountant understands finances, but a piano teacher doesn't have to know about piano and music - if he asks how my week was then I'll advanced wonderfully. Or heck, who cares about getting good at playing the piano, just ask me how my week was. You don't teach music: "At my school, we don't teach music... we teach people." Right, got it. And Music Man was an amazing movie. "Ya da DEEda, DEEda DEE - Ya da da! Ya da da! - That's my Johnny!"

Obviously the OP was just trying to create an eye catching title and do some clever writing with quoted sayings. S/he is saying that in addition to teaching, students appreciate a human touch because we are all human. But you're darn tootin' that we care how much you know. In fact, if you discount the years a teacher spent getting there as not mattering, then it's in insult and maybe why the post didn't get a response.

I'll go on a limb and say that making sure that you know enough before starting to teach, and then doing your best to bring it across, IS caring. That's a lot harder work than asking "How was your week?" It is an act of caring because on their side, students are embarking on something in which they are unskilled where there will be lots of stumbles, and without a guiding hand there can be some awful feelings. If the writer is saying that caring about a student's well-being as a student and also a human being matters, then I would agree. Maybe because it is hard to be a student, or because how we feel can affect how we can play, being asked about our day is important. But not instead of.

I thought I'd share a story with people on the forum. My first post here was "should I tell my teacher about my depression?" and most of you very nicely answered with some of your personal experiences with it, some pointed out what they would do in my situation, others told me that I should or shouldn't with reasoning behind their answers.

The very first teacher I had in piano was the first to label my depression before anybody else could. I came to lessons, looking very tired, despondent and uninterested. There was one particular lesson where I was very unresponsive and just exhausted. He asked if everything was alright, I lied and said everything was fine. He called me after the lesson and asked me "what's wrong" ... and I said "nothing" again, then I told him something slightly delusional, I had just finished high school and I thought that the world was against me, they didn't want me to go onto university, I told him that everybody hated me and they don't want to talk to me (when I actually had great friends and a loving family) and I also told him that nothing brings me pleasure anymore, that I can never sleep at night for more than 2 or 3 hours without waking up, that life was a dull boring cycle. I told him about the guilt, the numbness, the emptiness ... and I also told him about the exhaustion, I said to him that it's been like this for 3 weeks and I thought it might have been because of finishing high school and the exams and stress that came with it but it's lasted for 3 weeks ... and he listened. He just listened and then I apologised to him, told him that I've been a terrible person.

This happened all before I was officially diagnosed with depression, he told me very gently that everything I said really does sound like clinical depression and very gently again he told me that I should go and get some help. ... And so I did, ... my friends noticed the fatigue, they noticed the apathy, the lack of interest but they didn't chime in and say anything, most just commented I looked tired. My family noticed something was wrong, but they couldn't quite put their finger on it.

I look back on it now, and I can see that our relationship was professional but cordial to a small degree. He was able to objectively label my depression, and lead me to get help and I was and still am truly grateful for that.

I'm surprised that this post was controversial, or hurt people's feelings. Maybe it was the other post (which I didn't read) that really did the damage. But then, I'm surprised that it isn't self-evident that teachers should be paid, and paid both well and fairly.

Students do have to live within their means. I had to let my very excellent piano teacher go this year because all my teeth went to h e l l, all at once. Hey, I brush, I floss, I see the dentist twice a year for cleanings and exams--- I do everything. But it still happened.

So, the dentist is getting all my money this year--- not the one who kept telling me, "Everything is fine, fine," when it very much was not. No. A better one. I still have my teacher, in a way. I have my notes, the recordings of our lessons, the memory of what he was trying to get me to see and to accomplish, and his example. I work at it every day, and frankly, he was so far out in front of me that I haven't caught up yet. A brilliant teacher and musician, really.

It struck me as doubtful that the student with depression would need to inform her piano teacher, but the last post cast it in a very different light. The suicide rate among young people is not only tragic but a great disgrace, when people with serious and obvious issues are not helped in time. The numbers are big. Of course a teacher cannot take on everything, and it's hardly appropriate to expect it. But I am really glad that this time, a teacher was able to reach out and encourage the student to seek treatment. It very well could make a life-and-death difference.

I still don't know that I would discuss this with just anyone, though.

"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."

"We don't teach music, we teach people."

I can hardly argue, though a teacher's competency in knowledge certainly is something I care about. Our landscape guys are as nice as anybody, and work hard for us, but you should see the way they hack a tree, or can't fix an irrigation system, fertilize, treat common pests and diseases. They just don't know how. It's not enough. We're going to have to let them go. (And in case you're wondering, they're expensive too--- it's the largest single expense our Association pays out.)

Jeff & Keystring, when I read the post, I thought that the OP had brought forward an old, long-closed post, so my references were to the posting by Jeani-Martini, not the actual OP, who apparently is long gone from these forums. FWIW, most forums close old posts after 6 mos or a year of inactivity. I obviously made a bad assumption here. I hope that clears the fog somewhat.

John, I think most of us knew you were referring to the post by Jeani-Martini. I chose to take issue with the original post (I wasn't around in 2004) because the statement that people don't care how much a teacher knows is misleading. We very much do care, and our progress depends on it. The writer was making a point but had an unfortunate way of doing so.

I was not able to quite get what Ms. Martini was saying which is one reason why I didn't comment.

THANK you!!!

There is so much utter crap written in forums that I think most of us just roll our eyes and ignore it.

Wait a minute - that's exactly what the whole forum DID when this thread was started.

Wait a minute, John.

1) The original post was in January of 2004, unanswered. The name: iteachlifeskills. It was a pain in the butt post, and no one gave it the dignity of answer.
2) Out of nowhere, we see this:


You replied to this.

I don't give a d*** what the original thread title is. The implication is that OTHER teachers look at students as "cash cows", without feelings and thoughts. If the writer of these words is implying that most of us are like this, here, then those words are very wrong and extremely insulting.

If she is implying that many teachers NOT here, in this forum, are like that, she did not make that clear, did she?

You don't owe any of us an apology. Jeani-Martini owes all of us a clarification.

Just calling a spade a spade...

Gary, several members here couldn't figure out what I was talking about, so I was attempting to clarify. I actually thought the Martini post was the OP and she had just found a way to post a closed thread. I was responding to the nonsense posted by Martini, not the original poster, which, as you note, was a PITB post! We're already given this thread more dignity than it deserves. Can I award it the Gobble Gobble award?

Jeani says students are not JUST a cash cow to her. She did not say students are NOT a cash cow to her. In other words, she sees them as a cash cow, AND as human beings.

I intended to ignore this one. But ended up adding my two cents.

The use of "cash cow" suggests that dear Jeani has money issues and is not comfortable earning a living teaching.

This familiar saying may be true, but it's too bad the OP reduced it to his subject line "People don't care how much you know!" It completely misses the point. People DO care how much you know, but first they want to know that you care about them. And no, it doesn't mean having a rule that you say "How are you" to each and every student each lesson.

I will agree with the overall gist of the maxim, and that is that kindness matters in life. Doesn't mean it makes you competent in any endeavor. You need kindness in addition to your other skills.

But we all know that anyway. So I agree with the turkey award for this thread.

I think that's a great idea, John!!!

Wow this thread sure got lots of replies for being such a despised thread, lol



And no, it is not directed at anyone here.




-But- I have worked with conductors and professors in my time who caused such damage to their students that this life-skills message is something I wished they could have applied.

Yes, it matters that a teacher is competent and knows their stuff, but just because someone is endowed with talents, gifts, and genius does not entitle them to abuse others, nor does it mean that the world revolves around them because they have a gift.

I feel for young, impressionable students who cannot defend themselves against these kind of teachers and suffer damage because of it.

Stanny summed it up nicely:



But I also realize that not all teachers care whether or not students love studying with them. Regardless, I see the value in caring about them.

In my opinion.