Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1795291 - 11/24/11 11:02 AM F-30? Kawai James?
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
James, would you happen to have any knowledge on whether this pedal is being considered yet? I had asked Mr. Wisner in the spring and was told it could be a possible future product. It certainly would be desired by most (if not all) MP10 owners!

Curt


Edited by curt88 (11/24/11 11:04 AM)

Top
(ad) Roland

Click Here

#1795302 - 11/24/11 11:26 AM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Just so I know, what's the complaint with the F-20? I've got one and it seems pretty good to me.

Top
#1795347 - 11/24/11 12:50 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
It lacks the third pedal!

Curt

Top
#1795349 - 11/24/11 12:59 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
To each his own, I guess.

Top
#1795363 - 11/24/11 01:24 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2333
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
They need to make the jack plugs side entry (right-angled plugs). The way the plug sticks out the back of the MP10 is ugly. Roland use side entry plugs and it looks much more discreet and classy. I'm not bothered about having three pedals though.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

Top
#1795374 - 11/24/11 01:39 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Something like this would maybe work to make it a nice right-angle connection, right?

Top
#1795377 - 11/24/11 01:46 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2333
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Yes it would but then you'd have the original plug still on show hanging out of that adaptor. I've just sold my Roland RPU-3 pedal unit and it looked so slick. The whole Kawai pedal unit looks like some old bloke knocked it up in his garage. The Nord pedal unit is much the same - no aesthetic quality at all in either of them compared to Roland. The pedals for the Yamaha CP1 look decent too.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

Top
#1795385 - 11/24/11 02:03 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
I guess you are right; aesthetically it would look better with three pedals. They put the two pedals as far apart in the F-20 as they would be if they were the outer two of three pedals, which looks weird. On the other hand the pedal just sits on the floor. I don't look at mine much. In my case one pedal would be fine (I never, ever use the others), as long as it had some kind of wide base the kept it from turning to the side while you play (like most single pedals do).

I guess my feeling is that if it takes even just a little bit of engineering time away from other endeavors I'd rather they left the pedal as is. IMO they should be focusing on their sounds, possibly improving their touch, and adding things like third sensors in the action. Even the aesthetics of the piano itself are more important in my opinion than a better looking pedal unit or one with three pedals.

Of course, I don't get to make that call. If they are coming out with a three-pedal unit, I say that's a good thing, though I wouldn't pay any extra for it.


Edited by gvfarns (11/24/11 02:04 PM)

Top
#1795409 - 11/24/11 02:30 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2333
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Oh yes I agree the aesthetics of the piano are more important than those of the pedal. I actually think the MP9/9000/9500/8/8ii are better looking than the MP10. Although I don't like the position of the pitch bend/mod wheels on the older pianos to my eyes they are a nicer basic shape and convey a slightly better quality vibe to them somehow. I also think the MP6 is a nicer looking thing than MP10. I know this really shouldn't matter but the look of these things is very important to me!
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

Top
#1795415 - 11/24/11 02:47 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: gvfarns]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3343
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: gvfarns

If they are coming out with a three-pedal unit, I say that's a good thing, though I wouldn't pay any extra for it.


Chance of getting an extra pedal for no additional cost: zero.

Top
#1795459 - 11/24/11 04:44 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8416
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: curt88
James, would you happen to have any knowledge on whether this pedal is being considered yet? I had asked Mr. Wisner in the spring and was told it could be a possible future product. It certainly would be desired by most (if not all) MP10 owners!


I agree with Mr. Wisner. wink

@EssBrace:

Good call on the right-angled plugs too.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1795540 - 11/24/11 09:01 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: gvfarns]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
To each his own, I guess.

Hey! I'm not asking KAWAI to abandon the F-20 just because some of us would like three pedal capability. I'm just asking if it's being considered as a possible new product.

Curt


Edited by curt88 (11/24/11 09:11 PM)

Top
#1795544 - 11/24/11 09:11 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
I certainly didn't intend to be anything but nice. I only said that because I don't see adding a third pedal as a feature improvement. In the very unlikely case that you are planning on using the sostenuto pedal, you can easily map it to the second pedal. I have a hard time imagining using both sostenuto and una corda in the same song. For that reason I think of adding a third pedal as not really adding anything. So I guess I wouldn't be included in the group of people who you indicate would desire a new pedal.

You have to have three (or four) pedals in an acoustic because you can't change what any pedal is attached to. But only one pedal is used frequently. If acoustic pianos could easily change what their pedals do, they would probably switch to using only two pedals and it would be deemed a feature.

I said to each his own because clearly you feel that it would be an improvement. More power to you, I guess.


Edited by gvfarns (11/24/11 09:11 PM)

Top
#1795545 - 11/24/11 09:11 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Those huge straight plugs were on my list of dislikes on my review of my MP10 that I posted here back in the spring (and the post that kinda started the whole public awareness of the issues with the actions on these units). Fortunately, that's not a deal breaker as it's something easily remedied with some third-party plugs and a soldering iron.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I agree with Mr. Wisner.

I LOVE those vague answers!!

Curt

Top
#1795546 - 11/24/11 09:14 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Why would you assume that it is very unlikely for me to use sostenuto?

Top
#1795551 - 11/24/11 09:22 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
It's not a frequently used pedal by most people, as you know. The probability of using it in any particular song is low.

In order to need three simultaneous pedals you would need a song in which you plan to use the soft pedal (not common) and the sostenuto (even less common) in the same song.

Clearly you feel the need, that's fine with me. It's hard for me to imagine, but there's no need to justify your feelings, so let's stop trying to get them hurt.

Top
#1795552 - 11/24/11 09:24 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: gvfarns]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
I said to each his own because clearly you feel that it would be an improvement.

Well it most certainly WOULD BE an improvement, although not necessarily one that would be used by everyone.

Generally, it seems that 3-pedal support is reserved for home pianos and single-pedal is the standard for stage pianos. KAWAI went to great lengths to make the MP10 feel and sound as close to an acoustic piano as possible and then kinda left out the sostenuto pedal.

It may have something to do with the fact that they don't have the DSP coded yet to support the proper release sample assignments that would be required for this style of playing (some notes sustaining and others not)... Of course, this isn't an issue when using the MP10 to control an external library with full sostenuto support.

Curt


Edited by curt88 (11/24/11 09:36 PM)

Top
#1795555 - 11/24/11 09:34 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: gvfarns]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
It's not a frequently used pedal by most people, as you know. The probability of using it in any particular song is low.


It would totally depend on the style of music you are playing. I'm not a pop piano player, in which genre I would totally agree with you that sostenuto is RARELY, if ever, needed. But if you are a classical player then I think its use is a lot more common than you know. There HAS to be a reason why Steinway and the others still include them on their acoustic pianos. It's a great waste of money and labor to install it if no one is using it! smile

And no feelings are being hurt here, it's just a discussion! Friends?

Curt

Top
#1795559 - 11/24/11 09:54 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: curt88
Generally, it seems that 3-pedal support is reserved for home pianos and single-pedal is the standard for stage pianos. KAWAI went to great lengths to make the MP10 feel and sound as close to an acoustic piano as possible and then kinda left out the sostenuto pedal.


I guess my view is that 3 pedals is kind of like the cabinetry of home pianos. It doesn't add significant functionality to the piano, but it makes it look more like an acoustic, which a lot of people value. In a stage piano, though, looking acoustic is less important.

Let me be clear, sostenuto is a real feature that has value, but it's one that in my experience is not often used. For example, suppose there was a DP in which you could only split the piano between two instrument sounds OR set the piano to pythagorean tuning, but not at the same time. Both of these are potentially valuable features but I wouldn't see it as being a noticeable loss because a player is unlikely to need both at the same time. Similar with sostenuto and una corda.

I am a classical pianist (though not a pro or even particularly an expert) and I feel like I know lots of other pianists, but I'm not aware of anyone needing to use all three pedals in one song. Maybe I can't say that any more now that I know you.

There was a beginner on the forums a bit ago who was distressed because the DP he wanted to buy only had two pedals, not three. He was asking for suggestions of three pedal pianos. I told him that's a mistake because it's just hard to imagine needing all three at once. I guess that's still my opinion, but only because I've never used either with any frequency. In my mind it's a non-feature. This thread started out in a reminiscent way, so I put in my two cents implying that it doesn't matter.

I'm open to friendly correction, though.


Edited by gvfarns (11/24/11 10:19 PM)

Top
#1795574 - 11/24/11 10:21 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
I see your point. I can't think of any one composition that would require the use of all three pedals. But, I don't look at my MP10 as something that I can configure for each song even though it has that capability and much, much more. I approach it as a piano that I sit at and play. I don't split or layer. I don't program presets. I just play piano. I'm simple that way! smile And when inspiration strikes and I need (AH!) sostenuto, I don't have it available to me with the F-20 pedal. This is why I was asking KAWAI if they were planning on providing a 3-pedal unit to those that wanted one. It's really nothing more than that.

Yes, I can connect a separate single pedal placing it to the left of the F-20 and then assign it to una corda and the left pedal of the F-20 as sostenuto. But that doesn't feel right to me. The spacing (positioning) of my foot is wrong when pressing any pedal other than the damper pedal. And yes, I could get an off-brand three-pedal unit that may (or may not) work with the MP10 but I'd rather keep it all KAWAI.

And the big tease about all of it is that the black box of the F-20 is already set up to host a center pedal; it's just NOT THERE!! I will probably attempt to fill that center position with the missing pedal as a personal project.

Curt

Top
#1795575 - 11/24/11 10:22 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
And I hope all of you (that celebrate it) had a very Happy Thanksgiving!!

Curt

Top
#1795577 - 11/24/11 10:27 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3474
Loc: Pennsylvania
Sounds like a fun project. From what James says, though, I think Kawai will have a three pedal unit soon enough. Good times for sostenuto users!

Top
#1795592 - 11/24/11 11:17 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1706
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: curt88
I'm not a pop piano player, in which genre I would totally agree with you that sostenuto is RARELY, if ever, needed.
Curt


In 25 years I can't think of a song that's required it, in fact I don't believe I've ever used it in a pop/rock song.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

Top
#1796214 - 11/26/11 11:12 AM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
arley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 47
I'm getting an MP6 for Christmas. I've been thinking about getting an F20 to go with it (comes standard with MP10, optional with MP6). When I searched it on Google, one of the internet merchant sites said "This item has been discontinued".

Now, I'm sure Kawai James is bound by company rules not to say anything for fear of invoking the Osborne effect, but ya gotta think that little wink emoticon meant something. Assuming that bit of info is correct (i.e., the F20 is discontinued) ya gotta think that no company is gonna discontinue something if a replacement is not in the works.

So James, I understand you can't really say anything right now. Not asking you to--you're too valuable a resource on this forum, and we don't want you to get in hot water with the suits. Just mention to the powers that be that IF an F30 is in the works (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more), it sure would make sense for it to be compatible with the MP6, and to create whatever software/firmware updates it takes to make that work well with the MP6.

Top
#1796373 - 11/26/11 05:52 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: curt88]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3343
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I think some members have been a little too demanding of James lately. We are very lucky to have somebody in his position on the forum and I don't think we should push our luck by expecting him to answer warranty complaints and be the conveyor of all our desires to the product development team. I understand why people are asking, but I'm just concerned that this might make this a pressurised place for James to come and visit if we don't set some limits. Personally, I think we should confine our questions for James to current Kawai products, and let him volunteer what he wants and can about future products.

Top
#1796415 - 11/26/11 07:33 PM Re: F-30? Kawai James? [Re: arley]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8416
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: arley
When I searched it on Google, one of the internet merchant sites said "This item has been discontinued".


Perhaps that particular internet merchant is incorrect?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
145 registered (ando, 36251, Almaviva, 49 invisible), 1518 Guests and 27 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74296 Members
42 Forums
153673 Topics
2252533 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Favorite Beethoven Sonata cycles?
by TwoSnowflakes
04/23/14 09:43 AM
Casio 350 thin sound on decay
by mtnpete
04/23/14 07:49 AM
Playing from photocopies
by lacrymosa85
04/23/14 12:32 AM
Too much for my level?
by Maarkr
04/22/14 09:51 PM
The Italian Concert No.2 by J.S.Bach
by Iori Fujita
04/22/14 09:03 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission