Am looking to buy a 2000+ Steinway D for my home. I found a 2004 C&A not too far from my home, private party. They're changing continents and can't take it with them. He says he paid $95K for it in 2008 and that Steinway released the sale because it was a C&A but hadn't run its four-five year rental course. I have no idea what this piano is worth, other than that I have a budget of around $60K, max, and don't want to go beyond that. I don't want to get this person's hopes up, but we haven't discussed price as I haven't seen or played on it yet. I've looked on Piano Mart, Google for Bluebook piano prices (all fee driven), read the discussions on the forums in which no one trusts BB prices or Larry Fine's used price guide, etc., so I am turning to the forum itself in hopes that someone can tell me what this piano is worth today, given the present economy and that it will probably get worse. I'm nervous about spending this large a sum of money, but I have my heart set on a D. The piano, according to the technician who tunes it, is in excellent condition, nothing needing replacing or refinishing in the near future, despite being a rental model. Dick

Well, I like the technician's comments, at least. That's a positive.

I won't present myself as knowledgeable here, but I've always wondered about these C&A pianos and their retirement schedule. My received wisdom is that they undergo a lot of stress from all the moving, climatic changes, and the differing demands of artists, such that they are in a sense "worn out" after just a few years.

I, too, would like to learn more about these, just out of curiosity. Also what fair resale prices are. (I'm not in the market.)

May I ask why so narrow of a search? Confining only to the last decade as opposed to other qualities seems artificially confined. What happens to a piano when it turns 10?

$60k would be cheap for one so young if really nice, but the seller's situation makes them more inclined to entertain offers. The condition of ex-C&A pianos depends largely on what the dealer did post tour of duty, so in some cases, it wouldn't be more than a fair price. Their tech's assessment is a good start. FWIW, I know of another recent private sale D, immaculate instrument, also very young that sold for around $60k.

Richard, Steinway usually keeps pianos in the C&A pool for ~ 10yrs. Which raises the questions, why it was pulled from the pool early? Or, if it really was a C&A piano? And, 95K in 2008 does not seem to be much of a discount price for a 2004 Model "D"? But First: where was it used? The best scenario is that it was selected for use at a major venue. These pianos are very well serviced and cared for. The C&A rentals that are constantly moved around often spend too much time in the back of moving trucks.

I would also keep in mind that C&A pianos are often selected because of power and projection that works well in a large hall. This may or may not be what your looking for.

I fully understand your choice of the model "D". The action and the balance between the upper and lower sections would make me late for work. Every day. Enjoy your search. Best of luck.

Sam--thank you so much for your reply. As to narrowness of search, I wanted one that had the improved action (New York shank?), plus the fact that a number of Steinway techs and some forum members say you can get about twenty years out of a soundboard before it starts to decline. This is just a general observation because I'm sure there are a lot of pianos out there much older that sound just as good as they did new, but it was another factor why I wanted one of more recent manufacture.

Can you tell what year the D was that sold for around $60K? It would help me a lot in arriving at a fair price for the one I'm looking at. Dick

My recollection of that D was from about 2000-2001. It was privately owned. There was a buyer at $65k, but it ended up at a more charitable organization who he gave a break.

As far as the 20 years comment, I have to ask what is your purpose with the piano? In a hall setting, for concertos with full orchestra, sure, you loose a bit of ear-blistering top-end after a while. But any other deterioration is more due to intense use and fluctuating environment.

You are putting it in your home. A tech will already have to make some real adjustments just to deal with the acoustics of even a large room. If there isn't a back upper balcony audience member to reach or 90 other instruments to overpower, a healthy 20 or 30 or even older soundboard will not let you down. Place it in your home, voice it wide open as if for a concert stage, and it will still deafen you, your kids, your neighbors.

I'm just hoping to give you some context. A little information is a dangerous thing without the right context and perspective.

Not sure if I would necessarily agree on this, perhaps each case is different.

We just had a home concert last Sunday on a 9' concert grand, alas different make. The piano had never been voiced down for a home situation.

The concert pianist claimed it was the "closest to a Hamburg Steinway" which often means "brighter" than its U.S. cousin.

Yet piano sounded absolutely wonderful in its "smallish" setting.

I also know of several others who own concert grands in their homes. There's something to a big grand which makes it special to just about all others. It's not always *volume* but often incredible depth and clarity.

If you can get the 9'Steinway work for you, it could be a great instrument even at home. If worst comes to worst, simply close lid on piano.

I know some who do this on their 7' and even 6' grand....

wishing you the best

Norbert

Sam--thank you so much for your informative comments! It cleared up a lot of uncertainty I had about voicing down such a large instrument into a non-concert stage setting (my room is 30 X 36, eight-foot ceiling) which I didn't think you could realistically do, believing my large room could handle it. As to your soundboard comments, it will let me lower my original 2000+ wish into the mid or high 1990's, knowing if I keep on top of the environment I can extend the top-end life of it--probably more realistically within my $60K budget I've been trying to hold myself to. Dick

P.S. Can you tell me generally how much you think a new Steinway D drops in price from year to year, whether it's like a Jaguar or Maserati, dropping $10K or more the moment you drive it off the lot, or whether the depreciation is a lot less? Everything today is in such a state of flux because of the economy and the Euro ready to tank that it's hard to know what the price of hard goods is/are/will be in the months to come, pianos included.

Hello Richard,

I don't think it quite works the way you want it to work...Steinway doesn't make that many pianos that find their way to resale in such a short time and even fewer D's. How do you obtain an average when you have a miniscule sample size and usually dire circumstances to create such a sudden change in ownership. And those are spread around the country. And of those, how many are even with public knowledge?

A new one is about $130k. If you want a really young one, start looking for distressed recording studios and add some money to your budget for touchup and top-flight service. A patient seller will probably ignore your offer, but someone will probably relent. But the question is will the one that is a good deal be the one that you prefer? From the 1990's, I would think is highly possible. Just a few years ago, I would see people get huge numbers for D's even when they were train wrecks. People were satisfied to save 25%-30% off a fixable instrument, rather than demand 60% off a gem.

$60k will buy you a lot of really, truly fine used concert grands (these days, it might even get you close to some still new C&A instruments from other good brands), but D's are way too varied to use pricing as your search factor or for justification during negotiation.

Truthfully, see what is out their, wave a little cash around, and maybe you'll get lucky. But if you want a plan of attack, I'd look at 15-20 year old institutional instruments that may come up, buy one more affordably even if it's a little rough and pay for a new action, maybe respray at top coat of finish and have it rubbed out fresh and new. That's how I'd get a great D for home use on a more moderate budget.

Sam! What a wonderful reply. I read your post through three or four times, and what you have to say makes absolute sense. Will take your advice and run with it. Dick.

P.S. If I find something, and I can remember our discussion, I will let you know what I settled on.

An artist friend of mine has a Hamburg D that he moves from his home to a 1200 seat theater for a bi-annual concert. It fills the theatre, and sounds great in his living room. In the theatre, the lid is up. In his living room, the lid is down. That's why they make pianos with lids on them.

Bob--I've often thought the same thing! That lid is the real saver, including that rug underneath it! I have a son in Jacksonville (just back from Iraq) that I should visit after the New Year's. If you come across a "young" Steinway D, as they term it, please let me know. I would truly appreciate it. Dick