As I've progressed in my studies and become a little more skilled technically and somewhat more discriminating in what's acceptable soundwise after 6 years I've become increasingly dissatisfied with the sound quality of the grand piano samples available on my Yamaha Clavinova (which now seem "muddled" to me) and have been looking hard at the HP series of DPs from Roland.

The demos of the HPs at various sites online sound really good and I'm tempted to start some serious shopping for a new or preferably used model (200 series or 300 series),

Q: are these DPs as good as they sound (I'm primarily interested in the quality of the grand piano sampling here and not all of the other bells & whistles on these machines)?

Q; all other features aside, do the "lower end" models of HPs sound just as good as the "higher end"?

Q: where's the best place to shop for them, either in person or online?

Thanks, Trap (longtime resident in and contributor to the ABF here at PW)

P.S. is anyone potentially interested in a used (but not abused) Clavinova? `

Hello Trapper John,

I have just bought the lowest level Roland HP which has Super NATURAL sound engine, and this is what I found:

Q: are these DPs as good as they sound (I'm primarily interested in the quality of the grand piano sampling here and not all of the other bells & whistles on these machines)?

Yes, they really are - but listen closely for some slightly disturbing features from G4 to C6 - duplex resonance, I think, is a little heavily done, and the sound is not as full as on some other high end DPs - However, overall, the sound is superb for this level of DP (ie not an Avant Grand or V-Piano) The piano sounds lively, full of timbral variation and is characteristically sweet and strong.

Do the "lower end" models of HPs sound just as good as the "higher end"?

The main difference is in the amp & speaker set up which is, of course, much bigger and better on the expensive models. But I get a very good sound by augmenting the HP 302's own speakers with a line out into good external system. Sounds even better than most DP's own systems IMO. Apart from that, the internal sound engines are identical - only you have more user definable settings in the more expensive models (not that important)

Q: where's the best place to shop for them, either in person or online?

I'm in Europe, so the trading situation is totally different, but I got a better deal locally in a shop than I would have don on-line.

I found the Roland HP sound worse than the Clavinovas. So I bought a Clav.

But, dissatisfied with that after two years, I moved to computer-generated sounds using piano libraries.

I think that if you want to improve your sound, keep your piano and attach a computer. It's much better. And it's much cheaper than buying a new piano.

TrapperJohn,

Which model of Clavinova do you have? I would usually classify the Roland sound as less bright than Yamaha and with less clarity. There is much to recommend the Roland SN sound and I think there is a lot more going on sonically than with the run-of-the-mill Yamaha Clavinova sounds. But if you find the Yamaha "muddled" I'm not sure the Roland will help you that much in that particular respect.

If you do get a Roland please make sure it is the 300 series with SuperNatural sound engine (the 200 series did not have this upgraded sound engine). The difference between the two is very significant.

Good luck,

Steve

Another option is the Roland DP-990F. Same SuperNATURAL sound engine, same features as the HP302, simpler cabinet, and less expensive.

I would say no. At least not through the inbuilt speakers. Maybe ok through good headphones.

I agree with the comment about how well the tone responds and changes to different dynamics. That actually makes SN a delight to play.

I also add to the duplex comment G4-C6, specifically hit C6 hard and let it sustain. I hate the tinny whine that results and seems to take over in the decay. Hit C6# and also try F6# - dull, something went wrong with the tone generation there, that's why I say 'hit' them, the only way to get some life out of them. IMHO of course, as discovered on a friends FP-7F.

Thanks everyone - I've read thru your comments several times so far and while I was hoping for a positive consensus, if not necessarily a unanimous recommendation, of the HPs I think I knew that that wouldn't happen, especially since the question of sound quality can be very subjective. I know I probably shouldn't base my judgment of this factor (DP sound quality) on online demos but should play them in person.

I suppose that I was thinking that I could shortcut the process and save myself the time & effort needed to physically audition various DPs by asking for opinions here, which I guess is a little unrealistic and not too cool.

I'm particularly discouraged by the fact that a couple of you say that the Rolands are less bright and suffer in clarity in comparison with the Clavinovas, especially when the demos appeared to demonstrate the exact opposite - at least when compared to my CVP-301 from 6 years ago. Maybe the problem is with my machine alone (which significantly lacks brightness & clarity). Do these things "wear out" with fairly heavy use in time? Or have the Clavinovas improved greatly in sound quality lately?

I should state that I'm not set on the Rolands - I would readily consider other makes/models if they were especially noted for the superb quality of their grand piano sampling.

Trap

What you say makes great sense, and it follows that you should try to audition as many as possible - get the feel of the keyboard, the sound of the piano sound generators and the overall effect of the two together.

Yamaha's CLP 400 series, Roland's HP series, Kawai's CN & CA series. They all have very different characteristics and extra features, and all have their strengths and weaknesses. But there's nothing like actually trying them.

And all of these have stage piano versions (without cabinet) which, in the USA, at least, are better value for money. (Yamaha P155, Roland FP7f and the Kawai MP6 & MP10).

...and this is by no means a fully representative list - just a useful set of references for some of the best selling (and I would think, highest quality) brands in the $1k - 2K range and upwards.