Well, the down payment check has been sent to the bank, so I guess it's time for another piano search story. Let me start by saying I had a LOT of fun during the auditioning process - if you're patient and take time to educate yourself and play everything you can, I hope you'll have a similarly great experience.

Below is the list of what I auditioned. I'm mentioning the dealers by name to recognize their efforts, and say thanks. I enjoyed meeting everyone, and I hope I haven't worn out my welcome if I didn't buy from you (at least not this time). It's also worth mentioning that if I had more time and resources to travel, there were other stores and restoration facilities I would have loved to have seen - you (mostly) know who you are...

Also keep in mind the list includes pianos larger than I wanted (trying to stay under 7 feet) and some above--far above--my budget (I don't have a "tier 1" checkbook!):

Fazioli 228 - PianoForte Chicago
Grotrian 225 - PianoForte Chicago
C. Bechstein M/P 192 - Pickle Piano
Bechstein B-88 - Pickle Piano
Steingraeber 232 - Petit Music
Petrof III - Petit Music
Petrof Storm with MAA action - Petit Music
Grotrian Cabinet Grand - Petit Music
Wilh. Steinberg AC188 - Petit Music
Sauter Delta - Wells Pianos
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Wells Pianos
Seiler 208 - Hulbert Piano
Seiler 186 - Hulbert Piano
Mason & Hamlin BB - Carlson's Piano World
Mason & Hamlin AA - Carlson's Piano World
Bechstein A190 - Carlson's Piano World
Shigeru Kawai SK3 - Farley's House of Pianos
Shigeru Kawai SK6 - Farley's House of Pianos
Restored NY Steinway O - Farley's House of Pianos
Steinway B - Schmitt Music
Schimmel K189 - Jim Laabs, PianoForte Chicago
Estonia L190 - Jim Laabs, Cunningham Piano
Restored/Stanwoodized NY Steinway A - Cunningham Piano
Restored Hamburg Steinway A - Cunningham Piano
Bosendorfer 200CS - Cunningham
Yamaha C5 - Music Connection
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Ken Hannah's shop
Walter 190 - Walter Factory
August Forster 190 - Altenburg Piano and a private seller
Restored Steinway "long A" - private seller in Chicago

I have to say that there are aspects of all of these pianos I like, and there was an immense range of tonal character and action response to be found. With various "tweaks" to the regulation and voicing, I'd probably be happy with the majority of these pianos for many years.

Anybody want to take a guess yet?

Okay, first hint. This is (partially) Steve Cohen's fault. He didn't tell me what to buy, and I didn't buy from him, but he set into motion a "six degrees of Kevin Bacon-esque" chain of events that transpired over the course of four years...and led to this.

I know! I know!

and the answer is.....



[Answer to be posted by Owen when hwe sees fit.]

Shades of Frank's piano thread!!!

Congratulations!

I love a good piano story with a happy ending!

What was it you bought?

Rick

Based on the serial number alone, my SWAG is that it was one of the Grotrians. I owned one for 18 years and loved it to death. Given your own characterization of the throw weight of your checkbook, I'm guessing the Cabinet Grand -- the 192 cm successor to the 189 I owned. They're sure not inexpensive, but unlike Faziolis and others, you don't have to rob banks to be able to afford one.

The variety and quality of the instruments you tried is amazing. I thought I was a careful shopper, but this is something else. (Maybe not so careful after all; my wife likes to remind me that I went out to buy a pair of ahtletic socks 30 years ago and came home instead with my first grand, a Kawai KG-2.) At least you'll never have to wonder if the outcome would have been better if only you'd prolonged your search.

Congratulations. I'll be checking in periodically to see which one won.

Shi-ger-u!Shi-ger-u!Shi-ger-u!Shi-ger-u!
(I'm a 37 year old guy with a fast receding hairline and a gut--I make an ugly cheerleader:)

Hope you got the piano of your dreams Owen.

you could fall in love with any of those pianos. cover your eyes and point to the list at random and you should be fine (unless you don't have the funds for the fazioli)

Thanks for posting, Steve, Rick, Phil, Adrean, and Perri!

Onto the next hints, and the last for this evening:
1. Scratch any of the pianos that are 7 feet or longer-- budget, volume (though the Grotrian 225 could be incredibly docile when played gently), and space issues eliminated them from contention.
2. Scratch the "tier 3" instruments, though I'll share a little bit about the Petrof Storm w/ MAA action in a later thread for general informational purposes.

Have a pleasant evening- I'll check back in after the loan papers are signed in the morning.

My guess is O boy!

My shot in the dark guess is the Mason Hamlin AA based on the fact that you played so many of them in your search.

Oh man...a Bosendorfer CS! I'm very jealous if that's what you got!

Geez, you couldn't be in a better predicament. Congratulations!

Couldn't go wrong, if this is the outcome! Sounds like you enjoy the great tone and bass of the AA!

When do we hear the outcome?

Well, I've officially "bought" the piano now...though (technically) the bank owns it for a little while.

Don't worry lilylady, I won't string this along for more than a day or so - it pales in comparison to Frank's search thread, as I only visited 2 factories and 2 rebuilding facilities during my search.

If you look at the serial number in my sig and you're a true piano "geek", you can easily eliminate some of the pianos on the list...though having a few restored pianos in there will complicate things. Some makers have serial numbers into the millions while others in the single thousands. Let me leave you with what's left, based on the hints already given:

C. Bechstein M/P 192 - Pickle Piano
Bechstein B-88 - Pickle Piano
Grotrian Cabinet Grand - Petit Music
Sauter Delta - Wells Pianos
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Wells Pianos
Seiler 208 - Hulbert Piano
Seiler 186 - Hulbert Piano
Mason & Hamlin AA - Carlson's Piano World
Bechstein A190 - Carlson's Piano World
Shigeru Kawai SK3 - Farley's House of Pianos
Restored NY Steinway O - Farley's House of Pianos
Steinway B - Schmitt Music
Schimmel K189 - Jim Laabs, PianoForte Chicago
Estonia L190 - Jim Laabs, Cunningham Piano
Restored/Stanwoodized NY Steinway A - Cunningham Piano
Restored Hamburg Steinway A - Cunningham Piano
Bosendorfer 200CS - Cunningham
Yamaha C5 - Music Connection
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Ken Hannah's shop
August Forster 190 - Altenburg Piano and a private seller
Restored Steinway "long A" - private seller in Chicago

Any eliminations or guesses based on that?
I wish some of my students were as perceptive as some of you are...

I'm guessing the C Bechstein 192.

Dan

Well, he did say that he didn't have a "tier 1 checkbook." Buying a new C. Bechstein requires a tier 1 checkbook.

Based on what I percieve your tonal preferences to be I'd have to guess it's either the Bechstein A190 or August Forester 190. I would have also guessed the Grotrian except it's in tier 1.

Indeed, except that among tier 1's the Grotrian one of the most affordable.

Hi plumpfingers, DanLaura, P*D, Swarth, and Rich D,

Without giving out much information at all regarding the playing experiences in this search, you folks are fine detectives, all.

Alright, let's remove those "tier 1" pianos from my list, but before I do that, I feel like making a few educational comments for the membership--

The tier structure is one of the most hotly contested parts of the PB. If you separate the parameters of a piano into: touch, tone, assembly quality, and finish, the one thing all the so-called Tier 1 pianos have is a solid combination of every one of these factors. The Tier 2-3 pianos execute many of these parameters well, but usually not every category (and not to the same degree of excellence). There is a difference, and that difference is often reflected in the selling prices. Even the cheapest Tier 1 piano was out of my budget.

The new list:


Bechstein B-88 - Pickle Piano
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Wells Pianos
Seiler 208 - Hulbert Piano
Seiler 186 - Hulbert Piano
Mason & Hamlin AA - Carlson's Piano World
Bechstein A190 - Carlson's Piano World
Shigeru Kawai SK3 - Farley's House of Pianos
Restored NY Steinway O - Farley's House of Pianos
NY Steinway B - Schmitt Music
Schimmel K189 - Jim Laabs, PianoForte Chicago
Estonia L190 - Jim Laabs, Cunningham Piano
Restored/Stanwoodized NY Steinway A - Cunningham Piano
Yamaha C5 - Music Connection
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Ken Hannah's shop
August Forster 190 - Altenburg Piano and a private seller
Restored Steinway "long A" - private seller in Chicago

Only one of you picked up on the serial number hint (very early in the thread), you could easily get rid of at least several of these pianos with that info alone; just look at the other serial numbers we owners sometimes post in our signatures...

Estonia 190 is out based on serial number (Estonia won'te get to 192939 for perhaps a century). Would the Yamaha C5 be out for the same reason (except your serial number is too low)?

Fine. It is either a restored Steinway or a Bechstein or possibly, but unlikely, a Seiler.

I go with the B-88 since it is the first one on the list.

I'll give you a hint....He didn't go with my favorite piano.

I'm thinking its the O. A Steinway for work and for home.

The Restored/Stanwoodized NY A from Cunningham.

Alright-- some sound methodology and correct eliminations from the forum.

The new NY Steinway was out for obvious budgetary reasons. The Japanese pianos are gone as well as the Estonias based on the serial number. Oh, and the completely restored Steinway O was far outside my budget, though a surprisingly good example of the model. Anticipating the size of my future living room, as well as volume (I know, I know, not all large pianos have to be loud...) the 6'10" pianos are out. The B-88 was an interesting piano, though - much richer than I expected. It was technically new, but I have a feeling it had been on the floor for a very long time (I haven't seen the model mentioned here in years). Let's pare this down a bit:

Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Wells Pianos
Seiler 186 - Hulbert Piano
Mason & Hamlin AA - Carlson's Piano World
Bechstein A190 - Carlson's Piano World
Schimmel K189 - Jim Laabs, PianoForte Chicago
Restored/Stanwoodized NY Steinway A - Cunningham Piano
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Ken Hannah's shop
August Forster 190 - Altenburg Piano and a private seller
Restored Steinway "long A" - private seller in Chicago

If I forget to, remind me to post a short review of the Wilh. Steinberg AC-188 later; although I didn't ultimately select it, it's worth mentioning as almost none of us has seen or played one of the recent Wilh Steinberg grands.

Oh, and in the interest of a more thorough description, the rebuilt M&H AA's were not professionally refinished. Do you think I eliminated them because of that, or capitalized on a cheaper sale price?
The Restored Steinway "long A" was a 10 year-old rebuild.

Next hints: some comments on the final two.

Owen,

As a married man, father of four, who works all day in a piano store, I want to personally thank you for adding some mystery and excitement to my life. I look forward to your piano outcome and wish many years of enjoyment!

Thanks!!!

Are you using Larry Fine's tiers? NY Steinway is "tier 2" according to the last Piano Buyer. Now I have to take another guess.

LOL!
Better not show this post to your wife OR the owner of the piano store.....

Based on Steve's comment, my choice just got left out!

Hey Terminal!

This is just a friendly reminder that all of us here would very much appreciate your thoughts and impressions on the Wilhelm Steinberg! It's easy to overlook Tier 3 but these pianos are no slouches and high-quality. I've played a bunch of Schimmels and Petrofs that I really like, but never a Wilhelm Steinberg.

I'd narrow my guesses to Bechstein, Schimmel, or Steinway.
If there's a prize for the right guess, I'll pick just one of those three.
Is there?

My guess: Restored/Stanwoodized NY Steinway A - Cunningham Piano

Alright, now we get to the short list, the finalists. This will include some previously eliminated pianos. Given my budget, my preferences, and how and what I play, these were the ones I was considering most seriously out of the roughly 40 individual pianos I tried.

Mason & Hamlin AA (new) - Carlson's Piano World
Bechstein A190 - Carlson's Piano World
Restored/Stanwoodized NY Steinway A - Cunningham Piano
Rebuilt Mason & Hamlin AA - Ken Hannah's shop
Wilh. Steinberg AC188 - Petit Music
Estonia L190 - Jim Laabs

The new AA was new, older stock with the wooden action in polished ebony.
The Bech was newer, and polished mahogany. The Academy series, not the C. series.
The Steinway A was a comprehensive restoration of a 1905 piano in satin ebony.
The rebuilt AA was an unrefinished satin ebony case from 1905 with a WNG action, new belly work, etc.
The Steinberg was a polished ebony piano from the middle line of 3 series of grand pianos they make.
The Estonia was a satin finish, and a little burlier sounding L190 than the others I've tried.

Isn't it funny how markedly different tonal philosophies can all be finalists? I guess I'm either really open-minded or particularly indecisive...

Now for another hint: I took a trip to "piano row" 4 years ago. It was just a quick swing through, but it left a lasting impression that influenced the brands I shopped.

p.s. at least one of you has already guessed the winner and the runner-up. The person who guessed the winner is freakishly perceptive. (perhaps I should buy you a slice of Grotto pizza, but don't spoil it for everyone else yet...)

It has to be the Bechstein.

What is a "Stanwoodized" Steinway?

A method to a more perfect and precise key touch.

Stanwood

Thanks, S&W -- very interesting! How commonly is this process used? Do any makers include it as standard with their pianos?

Not on a mfg level, that I am aware of. More likely, @ the dealer level. There are techs that capable as well. My dealer did mine and you can PM me if you want the details.

Let's start this installment with a disclaimer, not unlike that which I say before awarding prizes at piano competitions and festivals:

My final selection was based on 1-3 encounters with each piano on the list. My choice could be influenced by a lot of things completely unrelated to how "good" the piano really is: my technique, the way I hear, what I'm used to, etc. If you gave me the same list of instruments to try five years ago, or five years from now, I may have made a different selection.

That's why I'm not focusing on why pianos were eliminated in this thread, aside from size and budget-- a lot of these "piano search odyssey" threads seem to conclude with the notion that the winner is the best piano, and all the others were losers. I'll be the first to admit there were very few "losers" in this field... As I mentioned before, I can point to things I like and dislike in every one of the pianos listed, from the cheapest to most expensive.

Regarding a few observations of pianos not often discussed here, or seen in the US, that I encountered on my journey but did not ultimately select--

The Petrof Storm (193cm) with the Magnetically Accelerated Action: I was able to sample one of these next to the older-design (but still new) Petrof III of the same size. You can see a few differences right off the bat: the Storm is individually strung, while the III is loop strung. The Storm also has an ebony bridge cap in the high treble region, which is a sort of exotic "look" for those inclined to check things out under the hood. The characteristic "bell-like" tone I have described of the Petrof III's treble, which is either charmingly distinctive or a little distracting (depends on your preference) was still present in the Storm, though its onset and presentation was much more refined and less bright. Also, the bass on the III growled a little more under louder playing (kind of like a big Baldwin does), while the Storm was again more refined and less "punchy". I believe the move toward the magnetic action was primarily for the purpose of eliminating lead from the keysticks (environmentally driven). Other parts of the action could be regulated in the typical manner by any technician. Yes, it felt a LOT different than the III, and I can't quite find the right words to describe it...sorry. It was a little odd to me, but I don't know if that had anything to do with the magnetic part of the action. Interesting concept, though.

The Wilh. Steinberg AC188 was a pleasant surprise - it's one of the least expensive pianos I tried. It's yet another instrument that uses some global parts-sourcing for cost savings, but is assembled in Germany and still uses a Renner action (the case parts are imported, if memory serves me correctly). Reading the forum comments about other Steinberg pianos (mostly uprights), I was expecting a really bright, brash sounding piano-- I wasn't really optimistic. In person, it was a very pleasant surprise. Looking at the soundboard, stringing, bridges, keys, casework, etc. it was really difficult to see any flaws. The action was very "fast", but not uncontrollably light. The overall tone was vibrant-- bright, yes, but in a good way. The treble register was really awesome, with a seemingly enigmatic combination of sweetness and projection. Yeah, the bass region was outshined by the Grotrian 192 next to it, but let's be fair, the Grotrian costs twice as much!

Without any further interruptions, the final two:

new Mason & Hamlin AA, polished ebony (older stock with wooden action)
new Bechstein A-190, polished mahogany

The "reveal" will be sometime today... it may be late tonight, as I have a very full evening, and it would be nice to figure out how to post up a couple of pictures.

Huh! Were you able to find any Wilhelm Steinberg IQ pianos to try, Terminal? I mean, if an AC series can surprise you, imagine what their top line can do.

I do not want to hijack this thread, but there are manufacturers that keep the "Stanwood Principles" in mind when designing an action. Certainly not all do and there are many pianos of very high grade that can be markedly improved in the way their action functions by having the "action ratio" corrected.

If there is interest to discuss this further i will begin a fresh thread, but for now, I return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

a married man, father of four, works all day in a piano store, and no mystery and excitement in your life??

That just doesn't make sense!

Does Academy rhyme with story?

Rich, that sounds like an excellent fresh thread.

I'm guessing

The rebuilt AA was an unrefinished satin ebony case from 1905 with a WNG action, new belly work,

or

The Estonia was a satin finish, and a little burlier sounding L190 than the others I've tried.

But maybe you eliminated the Estonia earlier.

"Isn't it funny how markedly different tonal philosophies can all be finalists?"

YES! I found that too. Another reason to play as many pianos as possible while shopping.

Alright, last set of hints before the reveal--

1. The bridges are "naked".
2. The bass strings are "kinky" at the ends.

Now ya' know...serial number or not!

(The rhyming thing was not relevant; i just ran out of creativity before slapping a subject on this thread.)

Naked bridges! That is sooo disgusting.

....or....it is a Bechstein A190!

The Winner is...[commence drumroll]

(for best supporting comment in the thread)
Stephen Lacefield!
(for most accurate psychic mind on the forum)
Rich D!
(for being a good sport about this publicly even though I didn't buy your Steinway)
Rich Galassini!
(for not spilling the beans though he was the 3rd person I called after I bought it)
Steve Cohen!

...oh, and by the way, I bought the Bechstein A190!

I think it was back in '07 that Steve mentioned the opening of the Bechstein company store on Piano Row in NYC. In the city on unrelated business, I dropped by and was absolutely floored by the 7'7" C. Bechstein they had; it still makes me chuckle to this day thinking about playing this most wonderful piano I could never, ever afford. I think that experience helped keep the idea of trying one (even the "lesser" Bechstein Academy) in the back of my mind when it came time for my own search. If I'm not mistaken, what was the Bechstein selection center is now part of Faust Harrison.

Thanks to Paul Hardy (manager and technician) at Carlson's Piano World in Minnesota, who was the "pointman" regarding the logistics, final prep, and even holding the final two pianos for me for two weeks due to my work schedule and a family funeral. Also thanks to Ron Carlson for making a deal on this piano that I could not refuse. (It does bear mentioning that all the dealers I listed were very price competitive, and willing to bend over backwards to set the pianos up to my liking if I selected them)

The Bechstein feels great, was assembled and finished carefully, and has a truly unique tone quality that can change "color" through the dynamic range, and volume that befits a modest-sized living room. The action is almost telepathic under my fingers. And, it's pretty nice looking to boot.

Only trouble is I have to wait a while to take delivery - my apartment is too small, and I have to move my Schimmel to my parents' home (it's too nice of an upright to sell, and it's paid for).

I'll post pictures tomorrow-- thanks for your guesses and well wishes!

Congratulations!

I've only played a couple of new Bechsteins, and they certainly weren't my favorites as far as sound, but I'm glad after all this that you found the piano you really really like!

Congratulations!

The 7'7 C.Bechstein is a formidable piano!

Norbert

Congratulations on your new Bechstein!

I recently had the chance to play a 282 and walked away with a most favorable impression.

Congratulations, and thanks for one of the most enjoyable piano search threads I've read in a long time.

I'm glad I got to this thread late, as I would've (once again) guessed wrong. My money was on the Stanwoodized Steinway.

Congratulations, we also like Bechsteins a lot. After my initial guess of the C Bechstein proved wrong I thought that it would be a M&H AA. Turns out that my first guess was pretty close. We can't wait to see the pictures. So are you going to move your Schimmel back to your home some day when you can find room? If you can ever find the room, or a larger apartment/house, that would make for a nicely set up studio to have both the Schimmel and the Bechstein.

We can't wait to see the pictures.

Dan

Congratulations on a great choice. I've played both the Bechstein A190 and C.Bechstein 7'7" and loved them both. Oh and if you ever get down my way you're welcome to play my Grotrian and enjoy some Grottos pizza.

Rich

Congratulations !! Hope you enjoy many wonderful hours on this lovely instrument!

Sophia

Congrats Owen!
That there is a fine fine instrument.
My first piano was a Bechstein Academy upright. I loved that piano. When I decided to make the move to a grand the first one a spent a lot of time on was an A190. I probably would have gotten it had it been inside of my budget.
I hope you have a lifetime of enjoyment with your new baby:)

I want to guess...I want to guess!!!

I say it was the Bechstein A190.

What do I win????

Congrats on your new baby. May it give you the years of pleasure you rightfilly expect.

See you this summer, if not sooner.

SC

Hi Dan,

I've thought about that a little. Actually, I sold my parents' used U1 Disklavier upright to help raise money for this purchase, so I kind of owe them a piano...

Looking ahead (after this one's paid off), if I had room and my significant other doesn't harshly object, I would consider a different-sounding grand piano of the same size to complement the A 190. Something along the lines of a new or restored M&H, Steinway, etc. would be a fun contrast.

Well, my goodness! Might this be the first PW thread with a 'Bech A' the take home prize?

Congratulations TD and may you have many years of enjoyment!

Loved your purchase thread. ;-)

Dear TD,

Thank you for the mention, but honestly... How could I be anything but a good sport?

You had very high praise for what you played here. Choosing a piano is a personal decision. Besides, if I remember right your enthusiasm actually helped us sell a Steinway M AND a Bosendorfer upright. Did I only dream this?

I wish you would visit again and again.

And enjoy the Bechstein! It is a very nice instrument.

Congratulations and here's to many healthy happy years of piano playing!


I sure hope someone else starts a mystery thread as poor Stephen Lacefield now has no mystery or excitement in his life......
( that still cracks me up!)

Awesome!! Congratulations on one great piano. A few years ago, I played a C. Bechstein, not sure what model. But it did floor me.

Anyway, I'm sure you will enjoy very much your A190. It is always nice to have a happy ending. Happy playing!!

I played a 7' something C Bechstein this fall and would have moved heaven and earth to buy it, but alas, I am not strong enough. I also liked the Academy series 6' something Bechstein which was much closer to my budget, but I really don't know what all the differences are between the high line and the Academy. Can anyone explain?

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/user/BechsteinPianos#p/u/21/q-6o3t6RRjk

Hopefully this works - I've not tried to post a picture here before:

Wow, it's beautiful!

So jealous...
It's gorgeous.

Enjoy your new piano!!

oooooh!

Very pretty!

That is one immaculate showroom, too!

That is one beautiful piano. Congratulations!

It's a beauty. Another congratulations for getting a great piano in a wood finish. I like the green felt too.

Dan

Thanks, y'all!
Yeah, the green felt...there's "something" about it; that stuff totally gives the piano its unique sound.

No question about it. Remember the green marker trick on CDs to get warmer sound??!! (I'm probably really dating myself here...

Congratulations on your new baby!

Robert

very nice piano.. congrats!

Wow a knock your socks off piano! Congratulations it is amazing!

P.S. It was a great story too. I had alot of fun reading through this thread and hearing everybody's guesses!

- Zoe

Gorgeous! Try to have some fun...

Thanks all for the well-wishes. I can't wait to practice on it on a daily basis.



That made me laugh. I guess that means I'm old enough to remember that phenomenon!

Sorry to bump my own thread (tacky, I know), but I forgot to add one more thank you before I let this fade away into the archives:

To Sally Phillips, who worked for Bechstein at the time my piano was built. She did some initial prep with the piano. You are one awesome lady, and definitely my kind of tech!

For the record, she was the first one to correctly guess the outcome of my piano search with just the serial number. It's funny how far this forum reaches in our little world of pianos...

My finalists were also an AA and an Academy series, and I also went with the Bechstein, though I've spent a lot of time second guessing. Congrats!

It is a beautiful piano. I look forward to seeing lots of videos!