Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Determining if a piece is suitable

Hey guys,

Question- How do you know if a new piece is too advanced for you or if its just challenging?. When you play through it, I mean, for the first few times, what tells you that it is too difficult for you to try or is a good challenge? I hope that makes sense, lol.
Thank you!

It's a good question: determining what is a challenge and what is beyond challenging, being not feasible.

When I play through a new piece I assess the sections or passages that are the most challenging to me. Based on what I know of my strengths, weaknesses and potential with certain technical difficulties, be they unison scales, passages in thirds, octaves, rapid repeated notes, etc., etc., I use that criterion to judge the possibility of playing the piece.

I believe it boils down to knowing what you can do with practice and what you can't do - currently - even with a great deal of practice. The more advanced and/or experienced you are with the piano literature and with knowing your own capabilities, the easier it is to judge whether or not you can play a given piece, with practice.

This raises another question : How much practice will I need to do to master this piece and how much practice do I feel this piece might be worth at the present time? In theory, once could say that almost any piece is possible with the right amount and the right kind of practice. I would not, however, advise the person who has "just learned Für Elise after four months work" to tackle the Waldstein, even though, with five or six years s/he might make some headway on it.

Know what you can and can't do and how wide the gap is between that and what is required of you in a new piece; that will help you decide what level pieces may be appropriate for you.

Regards,

Maybe it is a question which is difficult to answer straightaway. You should wait and see if you improve after awhile, or if the initial problems are really insurmountable.
You have to challenge yourself without really pushing or causing injuries.

I don't understand how anybody can 'play through' an unlearnt piece 'for the first few times'. I like 'em long *and* challenging, so 'playing through' is out of the question until the heavy lifting has been done.

To respond to the original question: go straight to those passages you expect will be most challenging for you. Spend some time on them, and you should fairly quickly realize what you can eventually shape them into (or if it would be hopeless to try).

whether I like it or not, although I know that sounds arro it's my only guide into new pieces, play through and think: do I like it, will I spend my time rehearsing it, will it be my piece?

That's interesting advice!

Thanks guys

Bruce and Pianomie have given good advice. I'd like to add that I ask my teacher's opinion. The last time I started a major piece of music, my teacher asked me to bring my wish list to my next lesson. I arrived with a thick pile of scores including:

Prokofiev Sonata #5
Schumann Symphonic Etudes
Schumann Fantasy in C
Beethoven Sonata Opus 53, The Waldstein
Anything Bach
Rachmaninoff - several preludes
Rachmaninoff Variations on a Theme by Corelli
Brahms Variations on a Theme by Haydn

He chuckled at the Schumann Symphonic Etudes. We settled on the Waldstein.

I'm going to have to disagree with this statement especially for those who are serious musicians... Its not about what you like but about learning pieces that have to be learnt. You can enjoy yourself to a certain extent

Your teacher will be the best judge

That is one reason I will not pursue performing piano as my primary profession. I will NOT play things I don't love and enjoy. I will NOT conform for anyone or anything else that I don't want to.

Of course, I will still give performances and take on students (I hope I'll be good enough a pianist and musician to make a good teacher... I REALLY want to teach!)

If you've reached a certain standard, I don't see anything wrong with learning pieces that you like - whether or not your teacher agrees to teach it to you.

From my early teens onwards, I've always learnt to play pieces 'on the side' that my teacher never knew about - I'd be studying a Bach Prelude & Fugue with her while also practising Beethoven's Pathetique on the side (because my uncle just transferred the whole cycle of Wilhelm Backhaus's Decca LP set of Beethoven Piano Sonatas onto cassette tape for me, and I was listening to them, entranced, every night before bed....). I greatly expanded my repertoire that way, not to mention increasing my devotion to classical music with each new discovery. If I encountered technical problems (in the Pathetique, the broken octaves in the first movement which tired my wrist rapidly because I'd never encountered them before), I just slowed down and kept plugging away at it until I got the music up to speed. Sometimes, I asked my teacher for specific advice, without mentioning why...

It's a dull student who only ever learns to play what his teacher is teaching, or what his teacher deems 'suitable'.

Once you've reached that 'certain standard' of being able to self-teach, you might question why you need a teacher at all.

At the standard I mentioned (struggling through the Pathetique first movement), a teacher is still required. After all, at that time, I'd yet to learn octave technique, playing 9 notes in RH against 5 in the LH, bringing out inner melodic lines, playing thirds and sixths fluently, trilling with outer fingers while playing a sustained melodic line with inner ones, playing fast chords/alternating or interlocking chords, glissandi.........

You might question why and, if you do so thoughtfully, you may realize that you can never totally discount the great benefits of a second, considered, informed and professional opinion upon what and how you play.

Moreover, all the self-teaching skills that you may have acquired may not bring you all the most efficient answers to technical questions that you encounter.

For this reason, many professionals continue to be coached by other professionals in the field. I seriously doubt that I will ever get to the point where I know enough not to benefit from good instruction. What good instruction has done - and continues to do - for me is it enables me to come to lessons better prepared, with many technical problems solved and with an interpretive vision of a piece already formed.

As a side-benefit, my teacher, though eagle-eyed and sharp-eared as any good teacher should be, does admit that I am making considerable progress, playing more difficult repertoire at a more professional level than a few years ago and doing so more efficiently. This kind of support and encouragement is much more meaningful than a non-trained listener who gushes : "Oh, that's so hard and you play it so good!!"

Regards,

I think dolce is a pretty advanced pianist.. performs all the time, no? I think once you reach such a stage, you certainly can and should pick repertoire that suits who you are. Yeah you should play what you should play - lots of Bach, Beethoven etc, but when you're out there putting programs together for recitals, it's up to you what you're going to play.

Unless we're talking about something like, you're hired to do a concert from series that are focused on German Romanticism for the season. Or are asked to do an all-Schubert recital. Then your choices are a bit more limited.

Right, and if you're not a professional ... well then. It really is a question of whether one's self-teaching ability is adequate to one's reasons and purposes for making music at all, never mind whether the benefit of a second opinion is worth the *cost*.

Funny how it's taken for granted that teachers are competent to teach and answer 'technical questions', especially once one has progressed to that 'certain standard'. Some are, obviously, and *many* are not. For many advanced amateurs, an adequately qualified teacher is either prohibitively expensive or simply not available outside major metro areas.

You're already a good enough pianist and musician. Teaching has a lot less to do with those two things than people think. (They're important, but only about half the puzzle.)

I think "dolce sfogato" may be a performing professional. In which case his point of view is entirely legitimate if he can sustain his career with his choices. (or even if he can't )