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#1803140 - 12/09/11 09:34 AM john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice
maduro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 276
hello I am an early intermediate reader and I could use som help from some seasoned players
I wanted to re apply myself to the discipline of reading
I love method books because of the systemezation

the john thompson books have etudes that accompany the grade levels
but I never had a teacher so I never really quite knew how to approach these etues.

are suppose to be brought to performance standard like a real piece of music.

how much time should I spend on etudes.
two for every piece I am learning or one for every piece I learn

for ampl I may spend 10 minuts on scals and appggios
and one hour on reading
wher do the etudes factor in


I have the fut feeling that these etudes are vry important but I nevr knew how to apply them.

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#1803555 - 12/10/11 12:06 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: maduro]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6424
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Maduro -

Seems you've asked similar questions in other threads - and have received some excellent answers.

If I recall correctly, the Thompson etudes are all fairly short. These should help you with specific technical problems as well as with your reading. You don't necessarily need to get an etude up to
"performance standard," but you should strive to master the technical issue being addressed in the piece. How much practice time that requires will depend on many different factors.

Like others here have recommended, I would strongly suggest that you find a teacher.
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1803629 - 12/10/11 04:57 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: carey]
maduro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 276

I appreciate your response your tone is a lot more understanding if that makes sense.

your simple statement if I may paraprhase :"if I recall they are all rather short"

says to me that I really should just do them all suck it up
master what they are looking to solve and keep it moving no harm no foul because they shouldnt take that long to learn anyway.

out of all the responses I got to my question I have found my truth in this one

thank you.

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#1803637 - 12/10/11 06:04 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: maduro]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
maduro, believe me, your progress will go much faster if you have a teacher or mentor standing next to you once in a while pointing out the obvious.

Without having a teacher you could be playing with bad habits, bad physical habits, and not know it.
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#1803692 - 12/10/11 10:13 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: Dave Horne]
maduro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 276
A well intentioned yet misinformed teacher can be just as limiting as an astute teacher is liberating.
...maduro Ms.ed


The Holy Spirit will teach and guide you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the ...
john 2;27

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
unknown





Edited by maduro (12/10/11 10:42 AM)

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#1803702 - 12/10/11 10:26 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: maduro]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6424
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: maduro

says to me that I really should just do them all suck it up
master what they are looking to solve and keep it moving no harm no foul because they shouldn't take that long to learn anyway.


When I took lessons as a teenager my teachers would generally assign a new Czerny etude to me every week. I don't recall ever getting any of these up to a performance standard - but I learned how to deal with various technical challenges in the process. Fifty years later I'm still using a handful of these etudes as warm up exercises. smile

Good luck !!
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1803711 - 12/10/11 10:58 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: carey]
maduro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 276
thats another good point live with the etude for a week before moving on

this allows you to actually get the technical requirements under your belt.

and by the way I meant to say I never had a teacher explain etudes
not that I never had a teacher .

thanks for all your help Carey

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#1803718 - 12/10/11 11:11 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: maduro]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
The Holy Spirit will teach and guide you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the ...
john 2;27


Wonderful, words of wisdom from the Bronze Age.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1803722 - 12/10/11 11:23 AM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: maduro]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4437
Loc: San Jose, CA
The Burgmueller books of etudes could be useful for you as well. They are short, fairly interesting, and were written for students to help the fingers learn some keyboard task. They're not really performance pieces, but that's what 'etude' means: they are 'studies.' Any store that sells piano music will have them.

Books of hymns can be useful. They are familiar tunes to many people, written (some of them, anyway) to be pretty easy to read and play with due practice; some of them are by excellent and famous composers.

I dragged out the old John Thompson books to see what directions he gave about 'etudes.' Ah--- they're in an additional book that goes along with the method books. He's picked some out (it says) from composers like Burgmueller, Cramer, Hanon. Ok. Yes, you're supposed to do them. He doesn't say anything about sucking it up; I think that's a matter of attitude. You could just get the original books; they're still in use. Hanon just calls them plain 'exercises,' but you can learn a lot just by doing them. They're not hard and they're not easy; they help what you get into the brain with its thinker turn into what it knows automatically with its knower and rememberer. It helps the hands become smart and confident, not so different from driving a car, which we learn with great effort and attention, then do automatically and without much thought as to the mechanics of driving.

If you like method books, Alfred has some that are well-regarded, and which come with a CD so you can hear what they're supposed to sound like. Since you don't have a teacher, the CD could have your back.

Along with my mom's old JT books there is one called 'Everybody's Favorite Piano Pieces,' played to rags. I got a new copy, it's still in print; quite inexpensive. There are many other collections, which have classical pieces, some easier, some harder, and which can be found in recordings. Try lots of things; it's how you will find yourself.

Learning piano is a steady process that takes a lot of time. All these things are meant to help you keep moving up, bit by bit. What else do we have that's better to do with our time, anyway? Don't come back with 'watching television!' or 'playing Bingo!'

_______________

Clef

PS- I kind of agree with the sentiment expressed in your quotation, but I can't join you in feeling that teaching (either Bronze Age spirituality or music instruction) is valueless. Of course, one has to shop carefully for a teacher who is right for you, and I wouldn't go with a bad teacher. Still, the learning process is a long effort, and a teacher can really speed up your progress materially.

The earliest cave paintings we have found are 32,000 years old--- they are, comparatively, about as distant in the past from the Bronze Age as they are from us. Herzog's 2010 IMAX documentary film, Cave of Forgotten Dreams, shows (he said in an interview) that this art sprang into full being suddenly and without antecedent; it is pictorial art which is good even by the standards of today. Who can say, really, that the same is not equally true of music--- or spiritual knowledge and experience.

Just keep playing and keep posting.


Edited by Jeff Clef (12/10/11 01:03 PM)
_________________________
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#1803763 - 12/10/11 01:02 PM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: Jeff Clef]
maduro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 276
wonderful words of encouragement

I have gone through hanon up to 37

I plan on picking it back up at the last 20 which to me are the best.

burgmeiler I own this

other etude books I own are
pischna
plaidy
czerny 100
and art of dexterity
and Rapheael josephy ***** loved this book

although I own these and pick at them from time to time my desire was to explore the thompson etudes because I felt they were really programmed in
thus



my purpose for asking about the thompson books specifically is because as you said I like methods and I want to follow the recipe so to speak and as you also said john thompson says little about how to utizize these etudes

but I like what Carey said
one etude a week
I may even get away with two per week
because I think I am actually reading a little below my level
I can learn a third grade piece now in one or two sittings and have it at tempo by the third day

if memory serves me correctly it useed to take two weeks to learn one of these third grade pieces

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#1803764 - 12/10/11 01:03 PM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: Dave Horne]
maduro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 276
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
The Holy Spirit will teach and guide you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the ...
john 2;27


Wonderful, words of wisdom from the Bronze Age.

not sure if this is meant to be a compliment or a dig

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#1803962 - 12/10/11 09:06 PM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: maduro]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4437
Loc: San Jose, CA
...not sure if this is meant to be a compliment...

Well, if it's a dig--- as in an archeological dig--- the dating is somewhat off, but only 3000 years or so. The Gospel of John was written (or compiled from somewhat earlier sources) something like 1850 - 1950 years ago; the Bronze Age dates from around 5300 through 2700 years ago, depending on what part of the world you're looking at.

Some people call this the Phosphor Bronze Age now that some traditionally brass instruments are made with this alloy, and some kinds of strings are wrapped with wire made from phosphor bronze.

Back to the etudes, maybe if you play through them they will tell you, on their own, where they fit into your studies. That would be the best way to find out.
_________________________
Clef


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#1804023 - 12/10/11 10:51 PM Re: john thompson etudes how do I use these in my practice [Re: maduro]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6224
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: maduro
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
The Holy Spirit will teach and guide you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the ...
john 2;27


Wonderful, words of wisdom from the Bronze Age.

not sure if this is meant to be a compliment or a dig


I took it as one man's contempt of religion.
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It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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