I wanted to start a thread about something
i know a lot about I have been playing in church professionally for ten years now
I have learned quite a bit about how to play a church service how get gigs
how to keep them and how to lose them
how to learn songs by ear
the best way to learn a written piece that may be at your technical limitations or just beyond your reading level

how to learn 6 songs in one day
how to convert a piano arrangement to an organ arrangement
the differences of organ playing vs piano playing

keyboards in church what sounds to use and when
preacher chords what are they

best song books and hymn books

the difference between evangelical
black gospel
anglican churches


If you are at al interested in these topics I will be happy to share what I know and invite discussion from others about their experiences

OK, I'm curious. Do the extensions depend on the denomination?

hmmmmm yes and no.

some denominations have something they call war fare ie juanita bynum

and this is different from standard preaching chords

That being said
I think that when you are playing behind a pentacostal or baptist preacher
you can pretty much use the same extensions

and almost the same basic progressions

for these sorts of churches a good rule of thumb is to play #9 chords something about having that minor third and a major third at the same time gives you that quality you need for preacher chords
they have that real edgy sound.
coupled with blues scale runs you have what you need

basic progression

I7 iiidim iv7 #ivdim7 I7 (2nd inversion)

but move into evangelical or anglican setttings
and you may have different requirements
there are some preachers that like to have strings behind them when they preach and this is something entirely different
sometimes here an excerpt from chopin or beethoven does the trick


just remember preaching is different from teaching
so if the minister is teaching dont use preaching chords
maybe here you need talk music

here it is more about your harmonic progression
pedal tones playing outside the scale tone system

such as subdominant harmony

playing the on the b7 and b6 chord tones

and builiding your improvs around a minor melodic minor scale

wow, i never knew there was so much to it. I imagine C of S has it's own modes.

Gospel lessons here:

http://store.gospelmusicians.com/Fundamentals_of_Neo-Soul_Keyboard/

yes there is a lot more than meets the eye

some things I would like to discuss ae how to practice for the church service
songs you must know
diffferences between service music from denomnation to denomination

Thanks for volunteering Maduro.I would defintiely be interested in any information you have on these 2 subjects.

-how to convert a piano arrangement to an organ arrangement
-the differences of organ playing vs piano playing

can infidel play in church?

well this is a topic that I am still very much exploring
so please take everything I say with a grain of salt.

i dont know what happened but my text got twisted around so i apogize if the concepts dont flow smoothly

first I would say that there are organists who can play piano just as well as organ and vice versa but for most of us we pretty much have to pick our battle axe

the techniques and thought process between the two are sometimes diametrically opposed.

also are you talking about hammond organ or pipe organ
or reed organ or theatre organ because it makes a big difference

second do you intend on playing the pedals or do you want a two handed approach.level not knowing these points wont allow me to tailor the information

so I will just be general

when you play organ you are almost like a one mann band.

I like to view my left hand like a guitar part or a comping pianist think the left hand is now your right hand your foot is your left hand and your right hand is a horn or string section

you have options on how big to make your left hand chord
it can be an extension of your right hand chord or it can be an independent left hand chord.

you can play three note four note or even two note voicings

these are systems based on a 60 chord system you must be very proficient in understanding how to put these together



check our mark levine for the four note rootless voicings





ok another thing to consider is rhythm

your chords just cant lay there you have to have some sort of pulse happening interplay between right and left is cool



the most basic pusles to start with are a quarter note pulse and a half note pulse

you cn play on every quarter note

or on the one and the three

or ou can get fancy and play on the 2and 3

iyou will probably have more questions



the simplest way to get started on the organ if you have never played it is to set your first four draw bars out to 8888 and play it like you would a piano trying to put as many extensions on your right hand chords as possible
your foot can just pulseon the tonicc of the key.

next step
follow your left hand with your foot (double the bass line)


third step
duplicate your right hand chord with your left hand
this will start to strenghten your left hand for its future duties as harmonic keeper.


step four

have your left hand play an independent chord

here is where it gets tricky


a good starting point would be the seventh and third of every chord and when there is no seventh play a sixth

this is the most unobtrusive left hand part you can play and it will sound nice


for and edgey soung you can play tritones in the left hand
your tritones must correspond to your bass note




to go to another

wow its a free country most churches will prefer a believer but i have seen some so called believers do some pretty wicked things so for the purposes of this thread I will leave out beliefs and stick to the music

Thanks Maduro. That's great.

One Question. You know how most Hymns are written as 4 part harmony? Well, that is for singing I guess, but what would it sound like if you actually played organ that way? Would it sound decent (passable) or would it sound like it's obviously lacking? Just curious.

I'm wondering if you could start out that way, or if you would need to add some thickness right from the start.



Also if you want to describe and elaborate on the differences between these, that would be great!

I would be happy to
just for background I am in now way putting myself up as an expert just someone with some hands on experience
in this field

the differences between pipe organ and hammond are very dramatic
I played my first pipe organ at a funeral it was actually a rogers organ and i was dumbfounded by all the funny little white buttons I had no clue what they meant
fortunately I just started hitting combinations quickly
after the service everyone said I played it great and that most people who come to the church couldnt play it

the reason is because i played it like a piano not like a hammond
and that was difference

I am not sure what it is about the pipe organ but it definietly is more forgiving to the pianist trying to switch over than the hammond is.
point to note there is a milisecond delay from the time you depress your note on a pipe organ to when it actually plays so you have to get used to playing slightly ahead of where you want to be.

think major latency like when you have to many instruments daisy chained on a midi connection





so first lets answer your first question
the if you are on a pipe organ you absolutely could play a hymn just as written
placing the bass note in the pedal
and the tenor voice in the left hand
a play the alto and soprano in the right hand

there are some things to be mindful of like repeated notes get half their value

and sometimes you may want ot do some sort of cadence between long drawn out measures

bass notes should walk as often as possible but for a beginning part of departure sure you could play as written on a pipe organ


as far a s hammond no the hammond doesent lend itself to this treatment as much
could you get away with it yes
but you woulc be much better served approaching the hammond as if it were a a trio
your ffoot is the bass player your left hand a guitar player or piaist comping and the right hand a horn player or a second chordal instrument.

as far as thickness is concerned you can get your thickness from the drawbars

each draw bar is represents a pipe
some are octaves others are fifths and thirds and even 2nds

if you pull your drawbars out the right way you can play a small chord that will sound fuller than what you are playing


another difference betweeen piano and organ is that organ does not have a sustain pedal so you need to be even more legato and connnect chords a lot more than you would if you were playing piano

practice playing violins on your keyboard without using your sustain pedal and try to get them to sound like violins you need to keep a finger on the note you are about to leave as you put a finger on the note you are going to in order to majke them connect

this is basically how you need to treat the organ.



reed organs are like your home wurlitzers they are played in between a pipe and a hammond they are not quite either one

I just came back from a rehearsal and i noticed that sometimes I will play the melody with both hands using thirds it makes a realy nice sound
the left hand is playing the tenor voice and the soprano voice an octave below

and the righ hand it playin the alto and soprano voice
and I am actually harmonizing the entire melody when done correctly it sounds delicious

It is 7:30 in the morning I have to leave for church in an hour and a half and I find myself transposing o come all ye faithful

I dont want to write out a chord chart I am actually trying to read it in the key of G and transpose it from the page into the key of D

I can almost do it
but to be frank I am concerned that the pressure of the perfomance may cause me to fumble


i will spend another half hour on it

but these are some of the things you may face as a church musician
having to play a song in multiple keys is a necessity and often you dont get this luxury of taking time at home to work it out.

now to be honest I could fake my way through but I want to put the melody and all thrich voiceleading that makes the song beautiful


ok half hour later and pretty much have it down
I will make a judgement call in service to figure out what I
MAy do