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#1811018 - 12/23/11 08:30 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
Brent H Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 843
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
For my fingers the stretch is such there is no curve - my fingers are straight out like carrots to reach. I need finger 4 to contact in just the right spot, if it does, all is well.


Well it's gotta be tough playing with Ten Left Thumbs, innit? confused
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#1811228 - 12/23/11 01:53 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: Brent H]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Brent H
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
For my fingers the stretch is such there is no curve - my fingers are straight out like carrots to reach. I need finger 4 to contact in just the right spot, if it does, all is well.


Well it's gotta be tough playing with Ten Left Thumbs, innit? confused


1 1 1 1 1
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#1811645 - 12/24/11 05:10 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Merry Christmas everyone, Have a joiful time! Been great working here in the last year and I look forward to learning from book 2 next year.
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#1812235 - 12/25/11 02:25 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
It's going to be a great year!
++

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#1812766 - 12/26/11 06:03 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Anyone making goals for next year?

Last year I set myself the goal of improvising quavers, in control - and - I've done it.

I'm wondering if I should do something about comping for next year. I'll stick with joi, of course, it's not mutually exclusive. I'm just wondering how much it would take for me to get together with other jazzers and comp, and if that's a realistic goal for a year. Any thoughts?
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#1812778 - 12/26/11 06:22 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2261
Loc: Sydney
Hi 10
Short term goal: to get a maj-min tune nailed e.g. Beautiful Love
Medium term goal: to finish JOI at the end of April, God willing it will be 2 years.
Longer term goal: Develop skills for arrangements.

What is your preferred style of jazz ? Do the other musos in Edinburgh play it ?

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#1812790 - 12/26/11 06:39 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Hi custard, you are working steadily at this. If I remember right you're in the 40's with the tunes, so that would be on course for the end of April. As for arrangements, that could keep you busy for a while, depending on what you arrange....

As for Edinburgh there is this place:
http://www.thejazzbar.co.uk/

I have to admit I've never been there. It's in a part of town that's difficult to get to - or more to the point, difficult to get home from. Especially at 3am. I'm not thinking just now of performing at all. There is a music library in town, musicians put up fliers. Any time i go there there will be signs saying 'jazz singer wants pianist to accompany' etc, etc.

I think I need to focus on quick reflexes for chords for this. I'm sure there's more to it than that. I've not really done two handed chords.
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#1812799 - 12/26/11 07:01 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>> I'm just wondering how much it would take for me to get together with other jazzers and comp, and if that's a realistic goal for a year. Any thoughts?
It takes less than you might think. I think towards the end of the year might be a realistic goal.

Gotta work on 2 things: Be able to solo on about 1/2 a dozen tunes.
Be able to improvise at 120 or so.

It think the speed thing would take maybe 3 months to feel good. Each tune is like 3 to 4 weeks. So it can be done! But it'll keep you busy!!

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#1812801 - 12/26/11 07:04 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Or did you mean comp for a singer in a duet?
I really have no idea how to do that, but you'd have to work with Dave specifically on this. I assume it will involve some basslines and playing in unfamiliar keys.

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#1813047 - 12/27/11 09:32 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
hi knotty, thanks for the reply. i was just thinking of some kind of playing with others, not necessarily soloing myself. ive not taken 'comping' as a goal, but maybe i should? a year is long enough to build skill if i work.
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#1813475 - 12/27/11 11:22 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
It's a nice goal!
There are some logistics involved, but the easiest is to simply sit at an open jam session, oR find someone that will host one and has a keyboard ready...

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#1813583 - 12/28/11 05:07 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
the logistics are a problem. i could have one other musician in my living room, at the right time. i dont have a dp, neither can i see myself being able to afford a good one in the next year. still, you never know what opportunities might arise.

having hunted around i have an initial plan and would like to hear your thoughts. stage 1: master 2+2 voicings as in randy p228ff and apply to tunes. i prefer these voicings to levine's 1+2 which just feel a little childish (root note only in lh). i think i need to make a start on 2 handed voicings, and getting them to come quick. course i can do much smarter than randy p228, *but* i need them to come quick. sound like a good place to start?

the other option would be more familiar rootless rh + walking bass. probably also important, but i can only focus on so much at a time?
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#1813753 - 12/28/11 12:14 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
10,

You can worry about logistics later. Once you start looking, you should be able to find places to play.

I think it would be a better approach for you this year to lay out a stricter practice plan. Doesn't have to be logging hours or whatever, but just having in mind all the things you want to do in your practice, what specifically they will make you better at, and roughly how much of your time you want to dedicate to it.

2+2 is fine, it's a simple solo piano approach, but it's not going to get you much closer to your goal of playing with others.

Better might be to learn to play arrangements for about a dozen tunes by the end of the year. Maybe less than that.

Also, I think it's important that you stick to the JOI program. Finish the tunes, keep with the hanons, and a lot of improv. Some singing with solos would be great also.
Perhaps as much as 30% to 40% of the time should be spend on improv. Then maybe 10% on hanons, 10% on singing with solos, and 20% on arrangements (whether 2+2 or totally free). Some time on the joi tunes and you got yourself a nice routine.

Playing to me does not count as practice btw. Each time you practice something, you should have in mind why you're doing it. And so with improv, you shoudl stick to the plan, just playing simple progressions for now and working your way up.
I've been playing Yardbird Suite for almost 4 weeks, and no other tune. I am now starting to dig the changes to that tune. I'm taking it faster one notch at a time, and it's starting to really burn.

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#1813887 - 12/28/11 03:59 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
hmmm, not sure. I just can't imagine saying, look, I've learned these 12 songs, lets do them - but if you want to do anything else it's going to take me a month to learn it.

The arrangements that I've done (and they took a lot of work to play to an acceptable level) didn't help me at all with coming up with chords quickly. Neither does improv because I work by setting my lh to autopilot.

I will absolutely stick with the joi plan.

but I think if I want chords to come quick, then that's what i've got to work on. Somehow.
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#1813973 - 12/28/11 06:06 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
the key here is to practice two-hand 2-5-1 (for example) combinations. Dm7 - FACE G7 - FABE CMaj 7 - EGAD, is one of a million..play them whilst saying the name of the chord out loud, chromatically, around the cycle of 4ths, up and down min 3rds, eventually using the metronome at slow speeds.

This will give you the grabbing capability.

DF

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#1813990 - 12/28/11 06:26 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: davefrank]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: davefrank
the key here is to practice two-hand 2-5-1 (for example) combinations. Dm7 - FACE G7 - FABE CMaj 7 - EGAD, is one of a million..play them whilst saying the name of the chord out loud, chromatically, around the cycle of 4ths, up and down min 3rds, eventually using the metronome at slow speeds.

This will give you the grabbing capability.

DF


that exact voicing is what i do with one hand. every key, every day. what should I do for two hands?

just to clarify - my mo has been every chord is 3579 or 7935 to make a smooth progression around or a little south of middle C.

i just need a bigger spread. for ultimate grabbability. smile
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#1814032 - 12/28/11 07:46 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2261
Loc: Sydney
Hi 10
Are you talking about harmonising ?
For Dave's example which is a 7th chord you can use
LH) R 5 7
RH) 3 7

If you are talking about melody as well, for the RH you need to include the melody note on top. If the melody note is already 3 or a 7, then you don't need to.

btw I know it's scary but I think like Knotty help
Making your melody sing is important, much more important than harmonising your melody. To make your melody sing:
1. Stick closely to JOI (singing JOI tunes and the masters as you have been doing) and
2. Automate your LH to enable your brain to concentrate more on your RH.

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#1814043 - 12/28/11 08:18 PM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
oops, I screwed up, the two handers would be like:
Dm7 LH DGC RH FA
G7 LH GF RH BEA
CMaj 7 - CE RH ADG

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#1814227 - 12/29/11 04:09 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: davefrank]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: davefrank
oops, I screwed up, the two handers would be like:
Dm7 LH DGC RH FA


no worries. but im confused, why does the dm7 have a G in it?

Quote:

G7 LH GF RH BEA
CMaj 7 - CE RH ADG


is the CE a third or a 10th? max reach is an octave.

so one thing i'm noticing is not being afraid to put root in bass.

thanks for all help.
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#1814229 - 12/29/11 04:15 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: custard apple


If you are talking about melody as well, for the RH you need to include the melody note on top. If the melody note is already 3 or a 7, then you don't need to.


hi cus, i'm talking about comping, so someone else is playing the melody, or soloing.

i suppose if i'm playing the melody then rh (melody) and lh (familiar chords i'm used to) would be a provisional start. probably worth practicing. but my range for chords is an octave and it would be nice to break out of this with two hands.
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#1814238 - 12/29/11 05:23 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
the G sounds good (it's a kosher 11th), the CE is a 3rd

DF

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#1814249 - 12/29/11 06:03 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
lol, kosher 11th is good enough for me! smile

I'll stick to joi 2 as planned. Just had another look at those voicings. Some will be two-handers for me anyway. and I suppose even when comping, one is supposed to do fills and stuff? I think I'll not put myself under pressure to be 'band-ready' in the next year, but just stick to the plan and be patient.

dave, isn't it the middle of the night for you?
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#1814336 - 12/29/11 10:12 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
not any more

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#1814383 - 12/29/11 11:29 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
oh my, that voicing sounds uncommonly professional. cus, you need to try it. smile

dave, hope you slept well. smile
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#1814394 - 12/29/11 11:44 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
that's that chord me ans cus was talking about, maybe on another thread. We called it So What, or drop 3.

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#1814955 - 12/30/11 03:53 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: knotty]
MissJones Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Hello every one, I am new here, and hope you don't mind my thoughts - I also like 'So What' chords, and I believe that their beauty comes from the intervals' ratios within - and I just noticed that the notes actually describe a pentatonic scale, e.g., Emin: (E) A-D-G-B; the pentatonic scale would be G-A-B-D-E-G; and then Dmin: (D) G-C-F-A; (F Pent major, F-G-A-C-D-F); ?

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#1814966 - 12/30/11 04:39 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: MissJones]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
now, how is it i never noticed that? smile

thnx!
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#1814976 - 12/30/11 05:49 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2261
Loc: Sydney
Welcome Miss Jones. I can't believe there's someone else on my side of the world with an even earlier time zone than me.

I don't know pentatonic scales. I think it's great that you can hear them that way.
Knotty introduced So What chords to me. I think of them as groups of 4ths plus a maj 3rd.

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#1814981 - 12/30/11 05:57 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: custard apple]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


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www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1814994 - 12/30/11 06:46 AM Re: Join the JOI jazz joint ! [Re: ten left thumbs]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2261
Loc: Sydney
Thanks 10 ! I didn't know the black notes on the piano corresponded with the pentatonic. Nor that Swing Low was pentatonic, I hear that tune all the time when I go to the rugby.

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