I was frustrated from my last gig that I just made an impulse decision and in the same afternoon, I had already ordered the NP 88.

I have to admit that I didn't spend hours and hours playing an NP 88. In fact, it's been a couple of months since I've touched one but my memory of it was good. And this was with whatever samples they had at GC. It wasn't necessarily the newest.

I play jazz and in a band setting, the Roland FP7F just wasn't cutting through the way I want. The piano sound is thin and with the light keys, it's very easy to sound metallic.

So yes I will miss the fancy keyboard and the FP7F sounds good in solo piano. But my single line solos don't sing and I don't like that.

It's been discussed here how your sound is only as good as your PA, so I purchased a new EV ZXA1 powered speaker on a stand. Then I added an Allen & Heath ZED-10FX as a pre-amp/mixer/EQ. With supposedly top of the line everything, I listened to the recordings and it was still awful.

I've now gone the same way as some other gigging musicians here and went for the NP 88.

I feel like some of us reinvented the wheel by going through the same cycle of keyboard choices. I recall Pianozac switching from Roland SN pianos to an NP88 for gigging.

I still have a Steinway so I'm not concerned about losing technique from a lower grade "keyboard" feel.

So am I out of mind?

Not at all!

Congrats on your purchase - Clavia produce some excellent instruments, and in a jazz setting, the Nord Piano 88 is terrific.

James
x

+1 to what James said. Enjoy your new red one! And let us know how you get along with it!

I think you will be very pleased with the Nord NP 88. It is light, svelte, and red. After becoming acquainted with the stock sounds, download and try the Bright and Bosie pianos. Congratulations on your purchase and on your progress as a pianist.

keep us posted on your experience with it. i'm interested in a light weight board for performance, and the NP88 is near the top of the list....

When Roland puts a SN piano in something AFAIK it is always the "Concert Grand" voice in the RD-700NX. It's a more complex piano sound that is fairly dark when played lightly but can get strident when pushed harder - as a result it really demands headphones or a high fidelity stereo sound system to sound good, which isn't your average PA or keyboard amp scenario.

It's too bad they didn't make the NX "Studio Grand" available in the NX FP-7F beacuse it sounds somewhat simpler / cleaner to me, and it definitely handles dynamics better. If you run across the NX in a shop you might want to give the Studio a quick try. If you do, I recommend these settings (which sound pretty good through the stereo amp & speakers I put together):


I hope the NP 88 works out for you, I'd love to be able to use that large free library of uploadable samples! (If they weren't looped I probably would.)

Jazzwee, that's going to be a really nice Christmas present - congratulations!

I, too, will be very interested to hear how things go for you. It's certainly got some great piano samples to choose from.

On a side note, I'd be fascinated to hear from "true" jazz players who have used either of the newer Kawai MPs in an ensemble context. I have a feeling that those boards would also work very well for that purpose.

Thanks for the supportive comment guys. I do feel kinda wacky making such a rush decision. But when I hear that metallic thin sound in the recording, it just grates on me.

If I do a recording direct from the FP7F, it doesn't sound like that. I wish I understand why it's so different in a live environment. Maybe it's because I hit the keys harder to compete with other instruments like the amplified bass, the sax and trumpet. Horns are so much louder than a regular piano.

Aside from the FP7F, I have live recordings with the same kind of amplified band using grand piano and that really sounds good to me. Though I always have to mic a grand to compete volume wise.

The lighter weight will definitely be a big plus. Normally I have to ask for help to lift the board + case onto my SUV or to move it to my stand. So having the ability to do it all myself is a good change. But I didn't even mind that.

What makes me so unsure though is the lack of heavy discussion of the NP 88 here. So it makes me think that very few actually have this. You all sound happy you got a guinea pig to try it out for you

voxpops, how about you? Any second thoughts on the FP7F? Do you know what I'm talking about on the metallic sound? There's a non-SN voice in the 'Other' sounds. Piano1, Piano2 and Piano3. Piano 2 seems to stand out more and is less metallic at a high velocity. But is still too thin live. Sounds good at home though.

If I set the touch setting to Heavy, then the character of the sound doesn't stand out in the mix even more, though for different reasons.

It's been months of frustrating trial and error without a solution.

And frankly, I'm not even certain the NP 88 will solve it since there's little discussion of it.

Jazzwee: I am looking forward to your own evaluation of the Nord NP 88 with your new PA in a jazz group setting. I have been using the NP 88 for the past nine months with stock sounds through a Traynor K4, solo through septet. This last month I downloaded XL versions of Bosie and Bright pianos and have used them on two jazz gigs. So far so good, but I am waiting for more unsolicited feedback from the group and audience. The slimmed-down size of the Nord is a major plus--it permits more space for the bass or drums in tight quarters, and it more easily fits into private party rooms. I assume you ordered the music stand and the soft case. If not, I do recommend them. The music stand is particularly well designed and wide. I have the Nord keyboard stand, but have not opened the package and will probably sell it. I am using a Roland portable Z-stand. My prior gigging rig was the Yamaha S90ES--worked fine, but heavy and big. My impetus for acquiring the Nord was generated by forum advice. I'm glad I listened.

Jazzwee, I do know what you're talking about. I had a jazz standards gig last night (which I was a bit worried about, as I'm not really a jazz player), and I was going back and forth trying to decide which piano to use. As it was just piano and vocals (no band) I was tempted to use the FP-7F, but it's such a pig to move around (bulk as much as weight) that I settled on the FP-4, since I also wanted the internal speakers as monitors. The FP-7F sounds really nice in a solo/duo context, but it does have a slightly mellow/dull character, which transforms into a kind of hard-edged sound at high velocities. I would not attempt to use it with my band, as I know that that tonal character would get swamped most of the time. (BTW, I haven't really tried to use any of the 7F's non-SN AP sounds.)

On the other hand, the MP6 seems to have the precise opposite tonality. When playing solo it can sound harsh and unforgiving, but cuts through beautifully in a band setting. The band I play in spans the gamut from progressive to blues, but only flirts with jazz, so I'm not sure how jazz players would respond to it. It's clear, bright tone would probably work very well.

At the moment I generally use the Numa Piano for band gigs, as its low weight and good basic sounds deliver most of what I need. However, the bottom end is not as powerful as most of my other boards.

Surprisingly, I think the FP-4 is a better jazz piano keyboard than the SN models. It's still a Roland, but it seems to sparkle a little more than those with SN sounds. The action is a bit of an Achilles heel, but I'm used to it and find it quite workable - probably not really any worse than the NP88's action. The slightly annoying thing about the FP-4 is that low velocities don't give the warm, mellow richness that the SN pianos deliver. Last night I needed a Rhodes sound for a few numbers, and the FP-4's Rhodes really is quite a bit better than the 7F's.

As for the NP88, there actually was a lot of discussion about it on this forum a year or so ago. Zachary Forbes was at the center of those discussions, and as his main use for the NP was jazz, it'd be worth your while doing a search for some of those threads. Zachary just loved the NP. Unfortunately, when I had it I soon got frustrated with its limitations. For a lot of my band work I need a wider dynamic range than is possible with the NP, and I no longer think that Nord's EPs are the benchmark. Also, at the time that I owned one, I had a partially modeled piano to compare it to, and I found the Nord's samples less inspiringly implemented despite their wonderfully quirky and individual characteristics. That, coupled with the not-so-brilliant action meant that I decided not to keep it. That said, I loved the AP choices on offer from the library. Also, I'm sure the NP can hold its own easily in a jazz combo situation, and the smaller dynamic range might actually be an advantage then.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the impulsive nature of your decision, jazzwee. Something triggered the decision, and it was probably the right thing to do. And please don't allow what I (or others) say color your own opinion or make you have second thoughts - these are just personal opinions, not facts.

Yes, sorry jazzwee, I should have added that I think you're probably doing the right thing too. I haven't seen the NP 88 in person, but it sure looks good on paper and some people here love it for gigging. Even assuming the NX could get the sound you're looking for (who knows) lugging that long and heavy thing around town wouldn't be much fun.

I've owned FP-7F and Nord Piano. I still have the Nord. I had the Nord before FP and still own it whilst the FP has gone. Whatever Roland have achieved from a technical standpoint, which is undoubtedly impressive, is also really rather boring and curiously lifeless. It is pristine but sterile in my view.

I've said it a hundred times but the transition to metallic nastiness in the midrange of Roland SN pianos can be quite unpleasant. The Nord is full of personality and the variety of sounds makes sure you are unlikely to tire of it.

I think regrets are unlikely jazzwee. Enjoy your NP88.

Cheers,

Steve

Good luck with it...I think you'll like it better then the Roland

Emeritus, thanks for the info. I didn't realize you already had an NP 88. You're recommending the Bosie? I thought most others I read recommended the Grand Lady D for jazz. I'm excited to see what it all sounds like. I don't even know what was in the NP 88 at GC that I tried.

I have an Quik loc WS-550 stand. This may end up being to big for the NP 88 now but it's ok for my current venues. My band is big, sometimes it's a septet so we occupy a lot of space sideways. The Quik Loc is probably more of an issue of depth so it will probably be ok.

I have an old soft case for a Casio Privia so I presume that will be large enough for the NP 88.

I used to have an S90ES too. That's quite a while ago now. In the past I have stuck to Yamaha so this Roland was the first Roland for me.

There's not been much Nord advice here before (I searched). At least compared to Roland/Yamaha, it's a small fraction of the traffic.

It is interesting though that Nord only gets talked about by gigging musicians. I guess it found its niche.

Voxpops, now that I still have the FP7F, the most non-metallic piano patch with body is the Piano 2 (Other). That's actually acceptable to me as a sound. Probably less dynamic control though since it's not SN. I was banging hard on it and it still sounded good. Unfortunately, analysis at home is always shallow because most of my gigs are in a dry-dry room with acoustic tiles and carpet. And even if I add reverb it just starts getting shrill. So my opinion on the Piano 2 is tentative.

It's true that in a Jazz band (especially amplified), the dynamic range needed is usually narrow. I can see why when you're a solo accompanist to a vocalist that your needs would be different. I think actually that the FP7F would still be good for that environment. Maybe more so than the NP88.

For me it's more about a strong sustain on the piano sound. Sometimes I'm tempted to use EP on an entire gig but I guess I'm too much of a piano man to just rely on that.

BTW - my jazz teacher is a Nord artist (as well as Yamaha for acoustics) and it's actually suprising I didn't spring for a Nord sooner. It's probably because I considered the keyboard feel to be paramount before.

Now I'm less concerned about that.

dewster, you're right. I'm already having problems lugging around an FP7F. For the same reason, I wouldn't consider a CP5 either. Just back breaking.

If I'm just playing at home, I would have had no complaints on the Roland since I have made some nice recordings from it. It may even sound good in a room with good natural reverb. But gigs don't give us the luxury of proper acoustics. I hope that what's for one enviroment is not bad for another (meaning I hope I not transferring a problem rather than solving it).

Does the RD700NX have those same non-SN piano patches I found on the FP7F? Just curious.

Yours is a very valuable opinion, Steve, since you're one of those that observed the same thing and went the same direction.

I'm curious as to this "full personality" you find on the Nord. Some of the Youtube videos I've seen doesn't necessarily remind me of the sound though it really felt good playing it (like I said 2-3 months ago). So while I still don't have the unit, I have this angst because I rushed to buy without trying it out one last time.

What sample do you gig with?

The point though Dave is that the ZXA1 has a clean neutral output much like headphones. I may not have the bass of your fancy speakers but it should be able to show me the true colors of the keyboard.

Since I don't have to play in the lower registers (without offending the bass player ), it's really about a clean sound from mids up.

So having a unit that's been called 'cleaner' than the twice as expensive QSC's, I figure I should have a true enough picture.

And the picture was unsatisfactory...BTW Dave, this was the first time I used the EV ZXA1 on a gig. Imagine my disappointment after spending all that money.

No the NP88 is not a real piano, and my expectations are very realistic for DP's. I just want it to sustain enough to make me sound like Keith Jarrett and then I'll be happy (even if it's a fake sustain ).

So what's this "Long release" and is it available on the NP88? There's so little said about this so I'm not sure I understand.

jazzwee, I believe the Long Release was added with a recent firmware update.

James
x

Thanks James. Sounds like it's a good thing but what is it?

A brief Google found the following explanation:

With Long Release activated you get a slightly longer release more suitable for legato playing. This important feature reflects adjusting the damper tension in an acoustic or an electromechanical instrument.
The Long Release can be activated globally in the Nord Piano's Sound Menu and works on acoustic and selected electric pianos version 5.3 or later.

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2011/09/09/nord-piano-gains-long-release-function/

Cheers,
James
x

James, thanks but not entirely clear still. I'm trying to understand how this relates for example to a real grand. Maybe I have to try it out to understand. Or perhaps those with an actual NP88 or NS2 could describe.

I think you'll find that the Nord is slightly too deep for the Privia case. I use the Privia case for both the FP-4 and the Numa Piano, but IIRC I used a Roadrunner case for the NP.

What I recall from playing both the Electro 3 and the NP88 was a rather strange, truncated release characteristic when damping a note. I think that the Long Release function will produce a more natural damping of the sound.

I'm considering the NP88 myself.

One thing to remember about the NP88 is that, even though it's still a DP, it's the only truly upgradeable piano from any of the major manufacturers. With luck, and goodwill from Nord, it should still be going strong years from now. And you should never get bored with it.

Another happy NP88 user here. I've been doing live gigs, studio work and a piano player for many years. I've never been so content with any other piano and the Nord has made my life delightfully simple.

voxpops, you're spot on.

Fingers crossed those lovely Swedes treat us Nord folks to a selection of new, large-sized EPs this Christmas!

James
x