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#1808821 - 12/19/11 05:31 PM Which piano - expect surprise...
Norbert Offline
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Registered: 07/03/01
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Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Which piano was used in this recording?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72e_cuOueqY&feature=related

Norbert wink
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#1808834 - 12/19/11 05:53 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Entheo Offline
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Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
CD 318 i would imagine, but in any case a wonderful little video... thanks.
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#1808944 - 12/19/11 11:22 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
TX-Dennis Offline
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Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
I believe I can make out the Steinway & Sons logo on the fallboard.
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#1809568 - 12/20/11 08:59 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: TX-Dennis]
Sparky McBiff Offline
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Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 1112
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Yea, I use a 42" monitor with my computer and that is a Steinway and Sons logo.
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#1809957 - 12/21/11 12:19 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
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Registered: 04/09/06
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Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Still wondering what the surprise is.
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#1809965 - 12/21/11 12:27 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
Still wondering what the surprise is.


rod, maybe the surprise is... there isn't any.
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#1809980 - 12/21/11 12:52 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Entheo]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Quote:
rod, maybe the surprise is... there isn't any.


Or perhaps that the piano he is sitting at in the clip when talking to the journalist is not the same piano the Emperor concerto was recorded with?

schwammerl.

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#1809998 - 12/21/11 01:41 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: schwammerl]
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1528
Loc: Danville, California
Originally Posted By: schwammerl
Quote:
rod, maybe the surprise is... there isn't any.


Or perhaps that the piano he is sitting at in the clip when talking to the journalist is not the same piano the Emperor concerto was recorded with?

schwammerl.


I believe you have guessed it.

Unless I am mistaken, the surprise is that the actual performance was on a Yamaha.

And the world didn't come to an end.

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#1810078 - 12/21/11 03:53 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14138
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
More please.

There *is* a surprise but it may not please everybody.
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#1810259 - 12/21/11 09:44 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
e440 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 13
There is no spoon

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#1810340 - 12/22/11 12:22 AM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1955
Loc: Philadelphia area
It's a Steinway "D". The pianos he used have been well documented. Ethno is easily correct that it is "CD 318".

Great video. Thanks.

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#1810366 - 12/22/11 01:04 AM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Glenn NK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 457
Loc: Victoria BC
Were the video and the audio recorded using different pianos? Just a hunch.

G

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#1810409 - 12/22/11 04:17 AM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Gregor Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 434
Loc: Münster, Germany
The real surprise is that I can´t watch it in Germany due to copyright reasons frown

Gregor
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#1810438 - 12/22/11 06:44 AM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
from denmark Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 49
Loc: denmark
Dear PianoForum
Glenn Gould was as you know playing Yamaha for many years. The late recording of the Goldberg Variation was played on Yamaha grand piano. Now my question?. When you search photos, Gould always play Steinway, you can´t find any photo where he playes Yamaha. Why? I find it strange.

Yamaha S4

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#1810559 - 12/22/11 11:04 AM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: Norbert
More please.

There *is* a surprise but it may not please everybody.


okay considering the source it must be something like the yamaha was built in china smirk
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#1810597 - 12/22/11 12:28 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3510
It's NOT the CD318 I think. I checked some photos of it and it seems the CD318 has only STEINWAY (and not the "and sons" nor the logo) on the fallboard. Unless they changed the fall board?
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#1810598 - 12/22/11 12:31 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3510
Can someone confirm that the guts of that grand is indeed a Steinway?
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#1810645 - 12/22/11 01:32 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: wouter79]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
Originally Posted By: wouter79
It's NOT the CD318 I think. I checked some photos of it and it seems the CD318 has only STEINWAY (and not the "and sons" nor the logo) on the fallboard. Unless they changed the fall board?


yes i believe you are correct about it not being CD318:

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#1810665 - 12/22/11 01:49 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Entheo]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
I go for a 'Steinweg', nowadys called in Europe "Grotrian-Steinweg' and in the U.S "Grotrian".

schwammerl.

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#1810681 - 12/22/11 02:13 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
It would not be a big surprise if the video has been edited for youtube.
Being an old recording the equipment used may not
sound that great. So singers lip sink and I've seen many "live"
performances that were prerecorded.
Just think of the olympics in China!!!!!
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#1810757 - 12/22/11 05:18 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 3204
Loc: Midwest U.S.
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
It would not be a big surprise if the video has been edited for youtube.
Being an old recording the equipment used may not
sound that great. So singers lip sink and I've seen many "live"
performances that were prerecorded.
Just think of the olympics in China!!!!!


That would be a tough audio editing job as for much of it, Gould is out there humming and singing simultaneous to his playing. I've done studio sound editing for commercials and film and since, as Alfred Hitchcock said, "actors are cows" and seldom get their lines right, I sometimes had to piece together words from syllables from other words to make their lines right. Such can be done. But removing a poor-sounding piano and replacing it with a clean one would be difficult, given Gould's vocalizations. Not impossible, even to do that well, but difficult and time-consuming. I can't see anyone going to that effort for that YouTube video. Beyond that, the audio of the voices is quite good for old video.

I did consider last night that perhaps the piano was actually silenced and overdubbed later, to get around the difficulties of getting good piano sound production, say if the room for the interview was poor accoustically. But I quite doubt that, too. On the other hand, Gould spent the later years of his life almost entirely in the studio and many of his later recordings were edited from multiple takes with dubbed inserts. So he might be the one artist who WOULD go the route of silent piano with overdubbing. Gould spoke at some length on film once about his choice to filter his work through that process, saying essentially that for the sake of perfection, in the final vinyl, he used all the tools at his disposal. Apparently he was very adept with the electronics in the studio. I found that aspect of his musicianship fascinating, though I’m surprised purists didn’t raise heck.

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#1810758 - 12/22/11 05:25 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 3204
Loc: Midwest U.S.
wow Autoreplace at PW yields "heck". Who knew? whome Filtered by PW, where I'm headed sounds a little less bad.

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#1810791 - 12/22/11 06:53 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Ok so editing may not be what the secret is.
The piano is a Steinway, so what's the big insider news. confused
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#1811007 - 12/23/11 07:51 AM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3510
I don't believe this interview contains overdubbed piano sound for 2 reasons

1. Gould may have been an expert on overdubbing and manipulating audio, but overdubbing a video over audio is MUCH more difficult. Under scrutinization you can notice the smallest time difference between a key press and the actual sound. Re-timing a video is a big job, and even more so in the 60's without digital stuff. Most feasible would be if Gould would hear the playback of his own recording and then try to synchronise on the spot with it. Even then this is still hard, probably even impossible to get perfect. Now youtube is known for its asynchronous playback so most people probably don't even look at that anymore with youtube, but if this is really overdub, small audio/video inconsistencies should still be noticeable if looked for.

2. In this video he is "only" giving an interview, right? Would Gould really be bothered by the audio quality of a few snippets that he plays during an interview?
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#1811088 - 12/23/11 10:47 AM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
i too do not believe that overdubbing is the 'secret', since the quality of the recording is what one might expect for an interview with a mic aimed in the piano's direction.

norbert's original question is "which piano was used in this recording" and it's clearly the steinway lyre on the fallboard, and it's not CD318. this interview is from march 1966, and gould had CD318 thru the 70s.

so it's my guess that it was any old steinway brought into the BBC studio for the interview.

maybe norbert is going to wait until December 21, 2012 to enlighten us.
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#1811221 - 12/23/11 01:47 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
I think I figured out the surprise!!!!
I think Norbert was waiting for the public announcement at NAMM in January but I can't keep a secret!!!!

The Steinway that was used in this interview was purchased from the BBC from the former Bosendorfer executives that designed the Brodmann that seems to be a copy of a Steinway model "A"
They have purchased this "D" to be cloned for their new concert grand being unveiled at NAMM next year.

Oh gotta go Santa's at my door. We need to load a few more Walters on his sled.

grin


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#1811252 - 12/23/11 02:50 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 1111
Loc: chicago, il
if true, then that's kinda funny, since a) it is pretty much 'any old steinway' that gould happened to play and b) if a particular piano could be cloned - which it can't - why pick that one?

guess it will make a good showroom floor story for the naive buyer.
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#1811269 - 12/23/11 03:15 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
wouter79 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3510
Rod,

I'm assuming that it must be a world-class instrument if they want to clone it.

Are you sure that they are using a world-class concert grand just for an interview? Sounds pretty odd to me?

And then, even if it were a 1970's world class instrument probably is not so world class anymore 40 years later?

Where did you get this information? Or are you just guessing parts?



Edited by wouter79 (12/23/11 03:19 PM)
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#1811271 - 12/23/11 03:18 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Norbert]
Zormpas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Monterey, Ca
Naw, the surprise is that Norbert sold Gould the piano in question! laugh
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#1811299 - 12/23/11 04:18 PM Re: Which piano - expect surprise... [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2307
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak

Oh gotta go Santa's at my door. We need to load a few more Walters on his sled.


Could you have him drop one off at my place? They are as scarce as hen's teeth around here.
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