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#1811061 - 12/23/11 10:04 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: pianoeagle]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: pianoeagle
I don't. I wouldn't want to lose my money either.


Exactly. So if people don't want to be treated like that, they should come up with policies that will take care of both themselves AND their clients. If someone has to cancel with a notice less than 24 hours, if the reason given is genuine and sufficient (I'm sure people here have woken up in the morning with a headache at some point or the other), the teacher should make an effort to reschedule (and not cling on to the policy whining about it). I'm sure you can find one extra half hour slot somewhere that month, no matter how busy you are! Make sure you tell the parent that it takes a lot of effort and I don't see why they would be so cruel as to take advantage of your kindness every time and don't give you the 24 hour notice that you require even if they can. I think there is a general distrust of students and parents expressed on these forums and I think its just highly misplaced. Trust and respect has to be mutual. So I see that those complaining all the time about students tend to exhibit a certain disrespect toward students and parents (in the various postings of theirs here), so I'm not really surprised that people don't treat them very well in return. The teachers who don't seem to complain as often here seem to be overall happy with their students and parents.

I'm pretty sure somebody is going to come in here and whine "Oh but if you did that, its not just one person you will have to reschedule, it will be 20, because people are evil, and they will all want to reschedule without giving me 24 hour notice just because I bent my policy one time with that first student". That is a choice you will have to make. If that's how you choose to treat this, then people will continue trying to avoid forfeiture of their lesson fee that I'm sure they work VERY hard for. Sometimes I find it hard to believe that people can be highly sensitive and prudent when it comes to policies protecting themselves ("I have to keep a steady income flowing in, so these are some great policies") but then exhibit great insensitivity when it comes to the parents' money.
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#1811063 - 12/23/11 10:07 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Originally Posted By: pianoeagle
How much prior notice do you require, in order for a lesson to be rescheduled instead of completely forfeited?


I ask for 24 hours notice, but do make exceptions, because I realize that students can become ill the day of their lesson. I am pretty flexible because I want to avoid at all costs being in a small room with a sick student who is coughing, sneezing, runny nose, etc.


thumb This, I believe, is the ideal attitude. I'm willing to bet that chasingrainbows is pretty happy with his/her clients and has no major complaints (except for the exceptions now and then, of course) about how they've treated him/her.


Edited by liszt85 (12/23/11 10:07 AM)
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Next in line:
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#1811183 - 12/23/11 12:45 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
TimR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 1810
Loc: Virginia, USA
And if one is unusually concerned about illness, it might be a good idea to start looking at Skype and other technologies. I think there is some opportunity there.

Remember that besides immune compromised teachers, there are immune compromised students.
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#1811186 - 12/23/11 12:48 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
wouter79 Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 1792
Since you offer a free re-schedule in case of illness, I don't see why parents do not want to honour your request. Did you ask the parents why they did not move the appointment and do they realize that they are putting you at risk?

If this happens more often, you could put a note in the contract that if you do not get a notice that the child is ill that there is a penalty (eg, lesson has to be paid but you leave immediately). I suppose this matches the normal penalty for missed appointments?
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#1811315 - 12/23/11 04:37 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: wouter79]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Since you offer a free re-schedule in case of illness, I don't see why parents do not want to honour your request. Did you ask the parents why they did not move the appointment and do they realize that they are putting you at risk?

If this happens more often, you could put a note in the contract that if you do not get a notice that the child is ill that there is a penalty (eg, lesson has to be paid but you leave immediately). I suppose this matches the normal penalty for missed appointments?


My policy offers makeup lessons for sick cancellations, and also states that I will not give a lesson to a child (exhibiting specifically named symptoms in my policy). This particular parent has already taken advantage once, since the child told me he was very sick as we prepared to start the lesson, at which point, I got up, spoke to the parents, reminding them of my policy and left. I suspect the child was reprimanded for telling me that. It's usually out of the mouths of babes that I learn they are sick, as this has happened a few times before with other small children, despite parents signing my policy.

I called the parent yesterday and of course, parent denied that the wet cough was from an illness, but rather from the lack of humidity in the house.

Aside from the fact that I was catching everything that came along last year, I missed 60 days of work and felt drained and ill most of the year, is the issue that these sick children are passing germs to the next students that enter the small studio.

And, there is also the issue of the quality of the lesson. I once tried to teach a child who coughed continuously through the half hour lesson. He could barely play a few notes without coughing. Parents were shopping. I finally had to suggest they find another teacher.

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#1811316 - 12/23/11 04:39 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: TimR]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: TimR
And if one is unusually concerned about illness, it might be a good idea to start looking at Skype and other technologies. I think there is some opportunity there.

Remember that besides immune compromised teachers, there are immune compromised students.


There's a difference between an adult who is ill and a child who is ill. I am talking about children whose hygiene habits aren't mature yet--I don't sneeze or cough without coverning my mouth. I don't stick my fingers in my nose, or in my mouth. Children have to constantly be reminded about these things. smile

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#1811490 - 12/23/11 09:45 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
TimR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 1810
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Originally Posted By: TimR
And if one is unusually concerned about illness, it might be a good idea to start looking at Skype and other technologies. I think there is some opportunity there.

Remember that besides immune compromised teachers, there are immune compromised students.


There's a difference between an adult who is ill and a child who is ill. smile


Not if you have normal resistance. (which I suspect you do, from earlier in the thread)

But anyone with decreased immune response is vulnerable when in close proximity, however careful or careless the other person is. You're breathing the same air.

If the teacher has the same standard of symptoms that would cause the student to not attend, then the teacher shouldn't teach, wouldn't you agree?

What I'm suggesting is there might be a large potential market for the skype process among those who are immune compromised, among those who are fearful of sexual impropriety or being accused of same, of those who are very shy, etc. It's a niche that has yet to be filled, this type of teaching is in its infancy.
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#1811598 - 12/24/11 02:49 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
ten left thumbs Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 2616
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows

I suspect the child was reprimanded for telling me that.



Eek. So, you going to drop them? If you travel to them, then there is a danger of you being used and abused by a family who have no real commitment - to baby sit.

At the end of the day, if you don't enforce, then what was the point of having the policy?

Sorry it's come to this. Some clients are just rubbish.
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#1811952 - 12/24/11 05:54 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 16995
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Having a handwashing policy (both instructor and students wash hands at start of each lesson) would probably help.

Chasingrainbows, I also was disturbed by your use of the word "deception." I don't think you've demonstrated that the parents were actively attempting to deceive you. A kid could be in pajamas for many reasons. A "wet cough" does not mean that a child is actively ill; it could be allergy-related, or it could be the aftermath of a virus where the child is not contagious at all.

If the child was not running a fever and felt healthy enough to take a lesson, it would not occur to me as a parent to cancel the lesson. If you want your students to cancel lessons for any cough or sniffling whatsoever, you need to be very explicit with them, and you need to state it in those terms. ("If your child is coughing AT ALL, you must cancel the lesson.") Simply telling the parents that they need to cancel for any illness is not--as you have found out--practical, as people define illness very differently.
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#1816453 - 01/01/12 01:46 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Monica K.]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Monica K.
Having a handwashing policy (both instructor and students wash hands at start of each lesson) would probably help.

Chasingrainbows, I also was disturbed by your use of the word "deception." I don't think you've demonstrated that the parents were actively attempting to deceive you. A kid could be in pajamas for many reasons. A "wet cough" does not mean that a child is actively ill; it could be allergy-related, or it could be the aftermath of a virus where the child is not contagious at all.

If the child was not running a fever and felt healthy enough to take a lesson, it would not occur to me as a parent to cancel the lesson. If you want your students to cancel lessons for any cough or sniffling whatsoever, you need to be very explicit with them, and you need to state it in those terms. ("If your child is coughing AT ALL, you must cancel the lesson.") Simply telling the parents that they need to cancel for any illness is not--as you have found out--practical, as people define illness very differently.



Monica, with all due respect, did you read all of my posts? If so, you would see that I already left a lesson once with the family that is the subject of my post. At that time, the child told me he was "very sick." I spoke at length to the parents reminding them of my policy. I have a paragraph in my policy that is very specific about what I feel constitutes a sick child. I also speak directly with each new parent stressing how strongly I feel about this issue, as well has my flexibility in making up any lesson that a student misses due to illness. Since this child had never been in pj's prior to a lesson, and and didn't attend his usual classes that evening (mom told me) and had the wet cough, I feared he was ill. Fool me once, I give you another chance, but twice, then Yes, you are being deceptive.

Many of my students are young, so they tend to forget to cover a cough, keep their fingers out of the mouth, nose, etc.

The store will not pay me if I refuse to teach a sick student who came in for a lesson. I can only rely on the relationship I've built with my families and their consideration of my one request - keep obviously sick children home. I bend over backwards to accomodate their needs, and expect at least this one request in return.

Handwashing - I keep hand sanitizer on the piano, however, I read recently that hand sanitizer does not kill viruses. Hand sanitizing doesn't protect me from sneeze and cough germs.

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#1816576 - 01/01/12 06:12 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Gary D.]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Elephant in the room: if there is a policy that same day cancellations will not be made up, even for sickness, then students will come to lessons sick, or will be brought to lessons sick.

If same day cancellations are allowed, for sickness, then some parents (and even adults) will claim sickness when they need a convenient excuse to skip any lesson they do not feel like coming to.

Catch 22 situation...


Pretty big elephant, yes.

In my opinion, you are pretty much offering up a loophole on a silver platter for anyone who wishes to take it. A loophole that apparently seems quite easy to take advantage of.
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#1816671 - 01/01/12 08:11 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
The subject of my post is about parents who have the opportunity to cancel a lesson (even the day of the lesson), b/c of an illness, with the right to a makeup, yet continue to let me in their homes with a sick child, or bring them to the lesson sick. I have not posted that anyone has taken advantage by calling out sick (when they may not be) to get a make up. Believe it or not, I do not think that has happened yet. And if it has, it isn't habitual and certainly I'm unaware of it.

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#1816675 - 01/01/12 08:20 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
The subject of my post is about parents who have the opportunity to cancel a lesson (even the day of the lesson), b/c of an illness, with the right to a makeup, yet continue to let me in their homes with a sick child, or bring them to the lesson sick. I have not posted that anyone has taken advantage by calling out sick (when they may not be) to get a make up. Believe it or not, I do not think that has happened yet. And if it has, it isn't habitual and certainly I'm unaware of it.


Ah, excuse me then. Somewhere along the lines, I got the impression that parents were lying or trying to hide the fact that their children were sick?

Even so, being sick is a side effect of being a human.

We also don't know what your definition of 'sick' is. Whether or not the child sniffles once, coughs once, sneezes once or if it has to be blatantly obvious like they are hacking up a lung or sweating bullets because their fever is so high.
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#1816779 - 01/01/12 11:48 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Dustin Sanders]
ezpiano.org Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Irvine, CA
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Elephant in the room: if there is a policy that same day cancellations will not be made up, even for sickness, then students will come to lessons sick, or will be brought to lessons sick.

If same day cancellations are allowed, for sickness, then some parents (and even adults) will claim sickness when they need a convenient excuse to skip any lesson they do not feel like coming to.

Catch 22 situation...


Pretty big elephant, yes.

In my opinion, you are pretty much offering up a loophole on a silver platter for anyone who wishes to take it. A loophole that apparently seems quite easy to take advantage of.


Please, tell me how should I re-write my next year studio policy to prevent both situations?
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#1816821 - 01/02/12 01:18 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: ezpiano.org]
Dustin Sanders Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Originally Posted By: Dustin Sanders
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
Elephant in the room: if there is a policy that same day cancellations will not be made up, even for sickness, then students will come to lessons sick, or will be brought to lessons sick.

If same day cancellations are allowed, for sickness, then some parents (and even adults) will claim sickness when they need a convenient excuse to skip any lesson they do not feel like coming to.

Catch 22 situation...


Pretty big elephant, yes.

In my opinion, you are pretty much offering up a loophole on a silver platter for anyone who wishes to take it. A loophole that apparently seems quite easy to take advantage of.


Please, tell me how should I re-write my next year studio policy to prevent both situations?


Why rewrite it when you could just abolish it altogether? Just teach the child, bring hand sanitizer with you and be smart about contacting the student physically. Get lots of vitamin C and eat healthy and exercise if you are so worried about getting sick.

By the way, just because you don't 'act sick' doesn't mean you don't have germs that can get you sick. In my opinion, you are being a bit too extreme here and I recommend abolishing the rule anyway.

Then for parents that call last second to claim their child is sick and can't have a lesson, make it mandatory for them to reschedule.
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