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#1809324 - 12/20/11 03:00 PM How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
I am always struck by how some people can be so deceitful. I have a few private students whose homes I go to for lessons. My sick policy is very clear - if I suspect a child is sick at a lesson, they forfeit the lesson. With notice, I will gladly do a make up lesson. I already had to leave a lesson once because this particular student told me he was "very sick." Now, months later, I arrive at the home, student ran upstairs to change (it was 6:30 and child was in pj's). That should've been my first warning sign. He wasn't attending his usual class that evening - second warning. Then, during the lesson, he was coughing a wet cough. Without going into too much detail, I have to be very careful about getting sick. Besides that, it's the week before the biggest holiday of the year for me. After I left, I stewed for days, and am still upset. How do I deal with this now? I want to call and discuss this with the parent and tell the parent that this is the last discussion I will have about my sick policy. Is it too late to discuss this now? Clearly, this child was sick, stayed home and yet the parents allowed me to come in and give him a lesson. I suspect they've trained him not to reveal when he's sick, since the last time he did that, I left without giving a lesson. Parent sits in the next room and listens to everything that's said. Help!

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#1809344 - 12/20/11 03:27 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Do the parents insist you stay under these circumstances? Perhaps all they want is that the week's assignment be made available for later use.

When my kids were sick for more than a single day their schools would provide assignments for pick-up so they wouldn't fall behind.
_________________________
“Intellectual passion dries out sensuality,” Da Vinci
Learning: A bunch of good stuff

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#1809501 - 12/20/11 06:29 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeff Clef Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 3458
Loc: San Jose, CA
Can you do without these people as customers? This weaselly behavior is not something I like to have in my life, or my business. Once detected, these people are flushed. They don't get to be less trouble over time, only more.
_________________________
Clef


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#1809599 - 12/20/11 09:50 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Ann in Kentucky Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2063
Loc: Kentucky
Hi chasingrainbows,

I am reminded of the movie "The King's Speech" (and book by same title). The speech therapist would not make home visits, even for the soon to be king. He felt it was necessary for the client to make effort. The therapist considered the effort the client makes to meet at the therapists studio was part of what made the lessons effective.

Your policy that the parent should recognize that their child is sick, make the decision to call you, and follow through notifying you is apparently too much effort for this family. We know that they are not willing to drive their child to your studio, and they are not willing to notify you when their child is sick.

You could bow out at this point letting them know that you are not willing to be exposed to sick students. Or let them know that if it happens again you will have to discontinue service due to the need to protect your health.

I wish you well in getting this sorted out.
_________________________
Ann
piano teacher since 2007
Member of NFMC and MTNA

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#1809647 - 12/20/11 10:47 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
TimR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 1810
Loc: Virginia, USA
I suggest it is okay to vent here, but don't deal with the situation while you're angry. And you are at this point still unreasonably angry.

If you're one of many people with weak immune systems for whatever reason, being around sick people can be risky. Unfortunately, teaching is not one of those professions where you can avoid it. You're dealing with an age cohort that has lots of illnesses. If you had only one student you could avoid him when he's sick, but with any large group a few of them are always sick.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#1809659 - 12/20/11 11:04 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
rysowers Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 1955
Loc: Olympia, WA
Being a teacher of children, you will always risk exposure to whatever ailments are going around. I would suggest bringing a surgical mask with you and wearing it if you feel like your student might expose you to something. Also, you can insist that your students wash their hands before playing and I know many teachers who use sanitary wipes on the keys before and after the student's lesson.

Another option might be to use Skype if a student is sick.
_________________________
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Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

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#1809767 - 12/21/11 02:39 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
AZNpiano Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 3586
Loc: Orange County, CA
I have one student who gets sick a lot, so I'm used to seeing her showing up coughing and stuff. If I enforced my sickness policy, she'd miss 20 lessons a year.

I've worn face masks, taught from the living room (20 feet away), or put a fan between me and the student and blown wind her direction (her mom did not like that, but, hey, I don't want her germs!). After she leaves, I sanitize the keys immediately and wash my hands thoroughly.

When you work with children--any children--you do get sick a lot, but you also build up a good immune system. It's much better than not getting sick at all for 20 years, and then be knocked out completely by a stupid flu (which can actually be deadly).
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1809771 - 12/21/11 02:52 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: AZNpiano]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano

put a fan between me and the student and blown wind her direction (her mom did not like that, but, hey, I don't want her germs!).


Seriously, you blow wind in the face of a sick child? This is worse than I thought.


Edited by liszt85 (12/21/11 03:06 AM)
_________________________
Current:
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Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1809781 - 12/21/11 03:44 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: liszt85]
AZNpiano Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 3586
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: liszt85
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano

put a fan between me and the student and blown wind her direction (her mom did not like that, but, hey, I don't want her germs!).


Seriously, you blow wind in the face of a sick child? This is worse than I thought.


It's a joke! Her mom sits in at lessons. If her mom didn't like it, would I even do it???

I noticed you have been replying to many of my posts with false accusations, insinuations, and personal attacks. It needs to stop. If you don't agree with something I write, you may express your opinion in a civil manner.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1809834 - 12/21/11 08:15 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
childofparadise2002 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 415
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
My sick policy is very clear - if I suspect a child is sick at a lesson, they forfeit the lesson.


But this is not an instruction to the parents, this is information to them on what YOU will do, not what THEY should do. You might want to be more specific, informing them that you are particularly prone to getting sick and would like them to be very conservative about letting kids have lessons with symptoms. You could also list symptoms and their durations (fever within the last 24 hours, etc) under which parents should cancel lessons. Some school districts give parents long lists of symptoms under which a kid should stay at home. That is helpful and also gives teachers an objective guideline on when to send kids home.

The fact that a child didn’t go to school, by itself, is not a good indication of how sick a child is. We’ve had plenty of times when a kid didn’t go to school but went to after-school activities. Sometimes kids stay at home not because they are contagious but because the illness makes them weak. A kid who doesn’t have much energy may not last for a whole day at school, but can be fine for an hour’s lesson.

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#1809854 - 12/21/11 09:38 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: AZNpiano]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: liszt85
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano

put a fan between me and the student and blown wind her direction (her mom did not like that, but, hey, I don't want her germs!).


Seriously, you blow wind in the face of a sick child? This is worse than I thought.


It's a joke! Her mom sits in at lessons. If her mom didn't like it, would I even do it???

I noticed you have been replying to many of my posts with false accusations, insinuations, and personal attacks. It needs to stop. If you don't agree with something I write, you may express your opinion in a civil manner.


With the kinds of opinions you've been posting recently (teacher = superior, student/parent = moron), I seriously believed you when you wrote all that. If it really was a joke, good for you. I'm not going to write in a "civil manner" to somebody who seems proud of having blown wind in the face of a sick child. Frankly, none of what you said was unbelievable, based on the posts I regularly see in these forums. I made no false accusations, I've only quoted and responded to what you stated. The one time I misinterpreted, I immediately admitted it.
_________________________
Current:
Beethoven: Sonata Op.31, No.2 ("Tempest")
Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1809915 - 12/21/11 11:39 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Tararex]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Tararex, they obviously expect me to give the lesson, since they didn't follow my policy and call to reschedule. AS I posted, they tried to hide the fact that the child was sick (in pj's, skipped night classes, wet cough).


Edited by chasingrainbows (12/21/11 11:42 AM)

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#1809918 - 12/21/11 11:40 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Jeff Clef]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
Can you do without these people as customers? This weaselly behavior is not something I like to have in my life, or my business. Once detected, these people are flushed. They don't get to be less trouble over time, only more.


Yes, I agree Jeff. Once more chance, and they can find another teacher to take advantage of.

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#1809923 - 12/21/11 11:42 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Ann in Kentucky]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Hi chasingrainbows,

I am reminded of the movie "The King's Speech" (and book by same title). The speech therapist would not make home visits, even for the soon to be king. He felt it was necessary for the client to make effort. The therapist considered the effort the client makes to meet at the therapists studio was part of what made the lessons effective.

Your policy that the parent should recognize that their child is sick, make the decision to call you, and follow through notifying you is apparently too much effort for this family. We know that they are not willing to drive their child to your studio, and they are not willing to notify you when their child is sick.

You could bow out at this point letting them know that you are not willing to be exposed to sick students. Or let them know that if it happens again you will have to discontinue service due to the need to protect your health.

I wish you well in getting this sorted out.



Thanks Ann, I like and will use your diplomatic suggestions. One more chance, and I'm letting them go.

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#1809930 - 12/21/11 11:48 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: TimR]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: TimR
I suggest it is okay to vent here, but don't deal with the situation while you're angry. And you are at this point still unreasonably angry.

If you're one of many people with weak immune systems for whatever reason, being around sick people can be risky. Unfortunately, teaching is not one of those professions where you can avoid it. You're dealing with an age cohort that has lots of illnesses. If you had only one student you could avoid him when he's sick, but with any large group a few of them are always sick.


Tim, thanks for the response, but my question was how to deal with the deception? I've already left one lesson because this child was very sick. I have a clearcut policy the parents signed listing all the "symptoms" that require a rescheduled lesson. At this point, nearly a week later, I am not angry, just tired of dealing with people who are sneaky and inconsiderate for no reason. Yes, I should drop them, but I like the student.

I understand your opinion that exposure to sick children comes with the territory, but why should it? Why can't parents leave their sick kids home and reschedule? Because it's inconvenient for them? HOw about the teacher who gets sick and has to either credit their students, or try to squeeze make up lessons in? Besides that fact, who wants to be sick? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask sick kids to stay home. It took way too long, IMO for schools to finally step up and tell parents the obvious - keep your sick kids home. Why do we have to be an exception?

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#1809935 - 12/21/11 11:51 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: childofparadise2002]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: childofparadise2002
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
My sick policy is very clear - if I suspect a child is sick at a lesson, they forfeit the lesson.


But this is not an instruction to the parents, this is information to them on what YOU will do, not what THEY should do. You might want to be more specific, informing them that you are particularly prone to getting sick and would like them to be very conservative about letting kids have lessons with symptoms. You could also list symptoms and their durations (fever within the last 24 hours, etc) under which parents should cancel lessons. Some school districts give parents long lists of symptoms under which a kid should stay at home. That is helpful and also gives teachers an objective guideline on when to send kids home.

The fact that a child didn’t go to school, by itself, is not a good indication of how sick a child is. We’ve had plenty of times when a kid didn’t go to school but went to after-school activities. Sometimes kids stay at home not because they are contagious but because the illness makes them weak. A kid who doesn’t have much energy may not last for a whole day at school, but can be fine for an hour’s lesson.


My policy lists specific symptoms that require a rescheduling of the lesson. In addition, I've spoken personally to each parent about this subject - I am sitting inches from the child who is coughing, fingers in nose, mouth, on the piano, etc. I can't afford to be sick, etc. If the child isn't well enough to go to school, they should stay home, IMO.

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#1809976 - 12/21/11 12:44 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 218
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Tararex, they obviously expect me to give the lesson, since they didn't follow my policy and call to reschedule. AS I posted, they tried to hide the fact that the child was sick (in pj's, skipped night classes, wet cough).


My suggestion: Retraining the parents with the desired behaviors is probably a worthwhile first step. This technique doesn't always work but is usually worth an attempt.

To do this you would step up in these situations and say: "Little johnny is obviously ill. Unfortunately our lessons agreement and health policy precludes my providing lessons in homes with sick family members." (This type of statement takes the onus off you-as-bad-guy and focuses on the policy that the parent has neglected to respect.)

Spend 5 minutes writing down the assignment that would have been that evening's lesson. (Do this not because they deserve anything but to show you're doing them a favor this ONE time in providing something policy says you need not bother with at all.) Hand the information to the policy-deficient parent while politely explaining how unfortunate it is that their forgetfulness has wasted an opportunity to reschedule. Ensure they have your phone number(s) and e-mail address to further subconsciously ingrain that it is up to them to contact you about problems BEFORE you make a visit. It's important that your demeanor be both friendly and firm.

When you get home, email the problem parents your phone number(s) and e-mail address...with a friendly "Assistance for rescheduling piano lessons" subject line.

Once parents realize inaction leaves them on the hook for payment-without-lesson for their little sick precious this probably won't happen again.

If the above cure fails I suggest dropping the student. Kids usually pick up the same character traits and weaknesses as their parents. Would you want a long term student who doesn't respect agreements?
_________________________
“Intellectual passion dries out sensuality,” Da Vinci
Learning: A bunch of good stuff

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#1810032 - 12/21/11 02:54 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Tararex, thanks. I think I need to take a class in how to deal with these issues. I have a hard time concealing my irritation when I very nicely have explained the "rules" before they sign up for lessons. I love your suggestions and will use it for this situation. Happy holiday!

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#1810035 - 12/21/11 02:55 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Tararex, let me just add that by the time I added up all the factors (why was he in pj's? why wasn't he attending his usual evening activities? the coughing started during the lesson), the lesson was nearly over.

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#1810085 - 12/21/11 04:07 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
AZNpiano Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 3586
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Tararex, let me just add that by the time I added up all the factors (why was he in pj's? why wasn't he attending his usual evening activities? the coughing started during the lesson), the lesson was nearly over.


I agree with you that this case is blatantly the parents' fault. However, not all illnesses (or all stages of an illness) will display overt symptoms. Sometimes there are no symptoms at all, and the child is sick and bringing germs/viruses to your studio.

Your best bet is to boost your immune system and take all the necessary precautions to protect yourself. If you're in that situation ever again, just walk out.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1810140 - 12/21/11 05:44 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
TimR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 1810
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: chasingrainbows
Originally Posted By: TimR
I suggest it is okay to vent here, but don't deal with the situation while you're angry. And you are at this point still unreasonably angry.

If you're one of many people with weak immune systems for whatever reason, being around sick people can be risky. Unfortunately, teaching is not one of those professions where you can avoid it. You're dealing with an age cohort that has lots of illnesses. If you had only one student you could avoid him when he's sick, but with any large group a few of them are always sick.


Tim, thanks for the response, but my question was how to deal with the deception?


You chose the word deceit, making this a moral (sin) issue rather than a practical or communication issue. You cannot succeed with a parent on that basis. You are starting off by using inflammatory terms - do you expect the parent to be reasonable after that? Unlikely.

It may or may not be accurate. Doesn't matter. Starting there doesn't work. But it takes a bit of calm self control to realize that and search for a better strategy. I think you are having trouble letting go the blame mode and getting into the solution mode.

Do you ever teach when you're sick? No, never? Well.........hardly eVERRRRR? (sorry, I've been a Gilbert and Sullivan fan since I was a child) Or do you figure if you're just a little sick you can't afford to give up the income?

I worked 8 years in a hospital, cleaning body fluids off mental patients. Exposure came with the territory, so maybe I'm not as sensitive to your issue as I could be.

Most people with a normal immune system can handle routine exposure. Some people don't have as robust a system. It may be that they are not suited to teaching, or they are suited to teaching only a very select type of student. If you fit in this category, I think it is more important than for most that you set very, very clear expectations with parents before starting. That way they have the option to seek another teacher if meeting your special requirements (in their eyes) is too onerous.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#1810364 - 12/22/11 01:03 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
pianoeagle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
How much prior notice do you require, in order for a lesson to be rescheduled instead of completely forfeited?
_________________________
Children's piano instructor
Member NGPT, MTNA/TMTA/PMTA

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#1810388 - 12/22/11 02:43 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Candywoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 641
Is it possible the parents were waiting for you to decide if a lesson was to take place?

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#1810395 - 12/22/11 03:08 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Gary D. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
Elephant in the room: if there is a policy that same day cancellations will not be made up, even for sickness, then students will come to lessons sick, or will be brought to lessons sick.

If same day cancellations are allowed, for sickness, then some parents (and even adults) will claim sickness when they need a convenient excuse to skip any lesson they do not feel like coming to.

Catch 22 situation...
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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#1810529 - 12/22/11 10:26 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
AZN, yes, I realize that students can carry all sorts of potential illnesses without showing any symptoms, which is beyond my control. But when they are obviously sick, that is abuse of my policy. I go for biweekly acupuncture treatments to boost hte immune system, and was considered a health nut 30 years ago, so there isn't much more I can do to protect myself.

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#1810532 - 12/22/11 10:27 AM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: pianoeagle]
chasingrainbows Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 731
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: pianoeagle
How much prior notice do you require, in order for a lesson to be rescheduled instead of completely forfeited?


I ask for 24 hours notice, but do make exceptions, because I realize that students can become ill the day of their lesson. I am pretty flexible because I want to avoid at all costs being in a small room with a sick student who is coughing, sneezing, runny nose, etc.

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#1810695 - 12/22/11 02:35 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: chasingrainbows]
Jeani-Martini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Land of Astro Turf, CA
Wear a medical mask during the lesson.
_________________________
You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.
Q: What's the difference between the second violins and the violas?
A: About three half-steps.
ba-da-BOOM!

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#1810876 - 12/22/11 10:37 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: Gary D.]
pianoeagle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
I agree. Since 24 hours notice is required, and only occasional exceptions made, students will show up to lessons sick since the parents don't want to forfeit the lesson fee.
_________________________
Children's piano instructor
Member NGPT, MTNA/TMTA/PMTA

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#1810895 - 12/22/11 11:21 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: pianoeagle]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: pianoeagle
I agree. Since 24 hours notice is required, and only occasional exceptions made, students will show up to lessons sick since the parents don't want to forfeit the lesson fee.


Would you really find fault with the parent, especially in the current economic climate?
_________________________
Current:
Beethoven: Sonata Op.31, No.2 ("Tempest")
Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1810901 - 12/22/11 11:32 PM Re: How to deal with after the fact sick policy abuse [Re: liszt85]
pianoeagle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Texas
I don't. I wouldn't want to lose my money either.
_________________________
Children's piano instructor
Member NGPT, MTNA/TMTA/PMTA

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