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#1810351 - 12/22/11 12:33 AM Need a little help
Basil Joseph Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 53
Loc: India
I am a beginner to piano and composing. I am trying to write down some of my compositions and I need clarification on some points.

1.I composed a piece in C # Minor in which the note “G” comes. Do I have to write F double sharp there or just natural G?

2.Like wise in a piece of A Flat Major where natural “A” comes which note I have to write? B Double Flat or A natural?

3.I am going to add Articulations and Expressions to my compositions. My music theory as well as practice are just in budding stage. So really confused how to add those things.

a)Talking about Forte, Pianissimo etc…they are relative terms or do they have specific velocity values attached to them? Its like I have to find the overall velocity variations through out the compositions..start with something I find ok (say mp) then go to the higer (F) and lower (pp) loudness levels as the piece progress??

b)Crescendo, diminuendo etc…Any guidelines in using them accurately and with sense?

I know these are just boring questions but please help me through this. Much thanks in advance.

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#1810385 - 12/22/11 02:29 AM Re: Need a little help [Re: Basil Joseph]
Nikolas Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2832
Loc: Europe
1. It really depends on the premise... If you are switching to G minor (for example), then you might as well go there and work with G natural. If you are still in G# minor then it's Fx for most of the times... Perhaps if you posted a pic, it would help us.

2. Ab major does NOT have A natural as a 'main note' in the scale, which means that you can do whatever your harmony dictates... I mean Ab major has 4 flats in the key signature, which is rather off to have double flats. Moreover the reason we have double sharps in some minor scales is because we raise a half step the 7th note of the scale. If this was to happen in scales with flats, then the flat would turn to natural, not double flat.

3. Difficult to answer that.

There are a few things to consider:

* Your phrasing. If you're talking piano music, then a lot of the times the legato slurs have the meaning of phrasing (so when, in somewhat relative terms, you would breath again between the notes). In other instruments it gets a different meaning (violin slurs are about bowing, NOT phrasing, and in the winds it's about playing in a single breath, NOT phrasing, although in both cases it comes close).

* Articulations. You need to decide what you want to be played staccato, accented, etc... These are articulations. And there's a world of difference between a tenuto ( - <- this sign ) and a staccato ( . <- this sign) when playing. Apart from the actual difference in playing, and even the recorded samples (if you're talking about Virtual Instruments), you also get a different sense of playing when you encounter that.

* Dynamics. Here we are... Yes in computer music and MIDI where the velocity values (how fast you hit the note down actually) is from 0 to 127 (it all has 128 values...), you might be getting relatively mathematical outputs. So a mf will be around 60-70 for example... A ffff will be 120-127 and so on...

In real life things are slightly different. It largely depends on the style of music (Bach will never be getting the same forte as Rachmaninov...), the relativity of what was before and what comes next. At some instances the how low in volume you play something will not matter if there is a huge phrase of extremely loud notes coming before that. Or it may matter.

It's all music related I'm afraid and my reply consists of somewhat simplified and half baked answers...

Oh...

b) First of all cresc/dimin vs hairpins (the two lines closing together or opening depending on the meaning). You use cresc/dimin for larger phrases (more than 1 bar), and you use the hairpins for one bar.

Now, once again, this question is music related and applies to specific music styles. For example Boulez was extremely exact to what he wrote, in every single note for example. Takemitsu as well... Prokofiev is leaving quite a few things for the performer to decide. You can go in all the detail to describe how you want the music to sound (thus filling up the notes bellow with dynamic instructions), or you can leave it for the performer (who do have a common sense and ARE musicians after all).

The how you use it... When you want it to go... louder you put cresc and the other way around you go dimin... (or dim, or decresc...). Just make sure you understand that a cresc does NOT happen immediately. It takes some time, and is gradual, and the dimin the same. If you're at forte and you have cresc, it doesn't mean that the performer will drop everything to p immediately as if they forgot. They will take things slowly. So it's sane to indicate how long you want the cresc/dimin to last, either by putting a dynamic at the end of the process, or by having dotted lines to indicate where this cresc/dimin applies.

Hope these help a little.
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1810398 - 12/22/11 03:27 AM Re: Need a little help [Re: Nikolas]
Basil Joseph Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 53
Loc: India
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
1. It really depends on the premise


it means double flats and sharps depends on the progression of notes? i thought its a rule like in Ab major you should not use A natural instead you should use B Double flat. I am wrong,am i?

you were very much helpful. Believe it or not, the quotes below, i practically had an application for that.Thank you nikolas.

What i am doing regarding loudness is first record my music into logic pro, then using the volume as a guideline to fix whether it is p or f. i used to omitt all the slurs, ffs, crescendos etc when i learn a piece and now i wish i should not have done that :P

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
* Your phrasing. If you're talking piano music, then a lot of the times the legato slurs have the meaning of phrasing (so when, in somewhat relative terms, you would breath again between the notes).

* Dynamics. Here we are... Yes in computer music and MIDI where the velocity values (how fast you hit the note down actually) is from 0 to 127 (it all has 128 values...), you might be getting relatively mathematical outputs. So a mf will be around 60-70 for example... A ffff will be 120-127 and so on...

In real life things are slightly different. It largely depends on the style of music (Bach will never be getting the same forte as Rachmaninov...), the relativity of what was before and what comes next.

You use cresc/dimin for larger phrases (more than 1 bar), and you use the hairpins for one bar.

Now, once again, this question is music related and applies to specific music styles. For example Boulez was extremely exact to what he wrote, in every single note for example. Takemitsu as well... Prokofiev is leaving quite a few things for the performer to decide. You can go in all the detail to describe how you want the music to sound (thus filling up the notes bellow with dynamic instructions), or you can leave it for the performer (who do have a common sense and ARE musicians after all).

The how you use it... When you want it to go... louder you put cresc and the other way around you go dimin... (or dim, or decresc...). Just make sure you understand that a cresc does NOT happen immediately. It takes some time, and is gradual, and the dimin the same. If you're at forte and you have cresc, it doesn't mean that the performer will drop everything to p immediately as if they forgot. They will take things slowly. So it's sane to indicate how long you want the cresc/dimin to last, either by putting a dynamic at the end of the process, or by having dotted lines to indicate where this cresc/dimin applies.

Hope these help a little.

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#1810413 - 12/22/11 04:37 AM Re: Need a little help [Re: Basil Joseph]
Nikolas Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2832
Loc: Europe
As I said it's music related, meaning that if you work on an 'atonal' work (which is rather difficult to do to begin with), then the rules you follow come from the melodic lines... You try to better your melodic lines, regardless of your harmony bellow. If you are on a tonality then you tend to follow that tonality... So If, for example I have an Ab major chord and then move to an F major chord, obviously I will move the Ab to the A... If I am on G#minor and move to D# major, then I HAVE (spelling wise at least) to write Fx instead of G, (and D# major instead of Eb major which is the same chord sound wise in piano)...
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#1810823 - 12/22/11 08:24 PM Re: Need a little help [Re: Basil Joseph]
Exalted Wombat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 874
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Basil Joseph
I am a beginner to piano and composing. I am trying to write down some of my compositions and I need clarification on some points.

1.I composed a piece in C # Minor in which the note “G” comes. Do I have to write F double sharp there or just natural G?

2.Like wise in a piece of A Flat Major where natural “A” comes which note I have to write? B Double Flat or A natural?


The only answer is "it depends". Maybe you could post a link to one of your scores. We could then give opinions on specific cases, and explain why.

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