Simplistically, you may know that to play piano well, you need a piano. You can't practice piano unless you have one.

With all due respect when one is holding forth in great detail on teaching approaches, learning styles and declaring rather categorically what does and does not work in teaching piano students...

Perhaps a disclaimer in ones .sig that says NO PROFESSIONAL TEACHING EXPERIENCE might be, in fact, more helpful to the reader than having a professional teacher declare his or her affiliation. Kind of like on the TV commercials where they depict a guy in a lab coat and stethoscope but with a disclaimer in tiny print "Actor Portrayal, Not An Actual Physician".

Candywoman wasn't talking about such circumstances. Even if she was, I would still argue that with enough will power, people can find (and have found in the past) ways to overcome these obstacles.

I believe you missed my point completely as well.

[b][/b]Not my problem.

Have you ever encountered anyone who fits all of this description? My goodness!

I'd be glad if my students have one or two of these abilities.

The important thing is that these attributes are not necessarily all there in someone who is starting out. You don't say about a beginning student that he doesn't "have" this or that - you develop it, and make sure you don't destroy it. The whole thing about a student taking lessons is that the student starts off not knowing things, and not knowing how to do things. The discussion is about students, not trained musicians.

1) emotionally interesting playing. Many people can play piano to a high standard, but musical playing is very difficult to find.
Can a beginner play emotionally interesting even if he feels things, if he has little control? Will it not become more interesting when he gets a couple of musical tools, so that he can also tweak it that way?
2) pays attention to details the teacher asks for
That can be there from the start. Let's hope they're the right details.
3) good dexterity
What happens if the student is not given a good setup, has a poor instrument at home, or if he is given crippling over-instruction?
4) ability to memorize
5) ability to sight-read
I understand that one can negate the other unless care is taken.
6) good inner pulse
Is it taught, innate, or both?
7) interesting view of the world, good understanding of literature, art
In a child? And if that child does not have the opportunity, such as being in a poor school so he is not exposed to things, does that mean he is untalented? Might this be substituted with "curiosity" and "inventiveness" for a small child? After all, curiosity leads to exploration leads to the rest.
8) works hard and learns efficiently.
This goes together with being taught well.
9) ability to communicate well
Again - in a child?
10) good tone
Can even a talented and dexterous student produce good tone from the start? Will he tend to get there faster since he's more likely to aim for it and is actually listening?

10) good tone
Can even a talented and dexterous student produce good tone from the start? Will he tend to get there faster since he's more likely to aim for it and is actually listening?

........For example, if there is poor teaching like telling a student from day one to curl the fingers, the talented student might injure himself more since he would actually be trying hard to produce the right sound by doing the wrong thing. In other words, talent is not a magic thing that makes everything go right.

Wait, so curling the fingers is wrong? I read that the fingers are supposed to be curled like holding a small ball or something. I'm asking this sincerely as I don't know, I have my very first lesson next Monday. Im expecting my teacher to flame me for flat fingers which I know is a habit I have picked up from self teaching for the last 2 months.

Sorry to hijack the thread, I'm just a bit confused.

Neil.

I teach beginners a piece called The Boatman from Leila Fletcher early in their program. Some play it beautifully and some play a stiff or loud, unmusical version of it. The former have talent, and the latter may develop talent, but do not have it at the moment.

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

—Justice Potter Stewart

if there is poor teaching like telling a student from day one to curl the fingers, the talented student might injure himself more since he would actually be trying hard to produce the right sound by doing the wrong thing.

One doesn't have to be big or strong to get good sound out of the piano.

However, there are two basic requirements: the student must be physically big/strong enough to muster a deep sound from the piano, and the piano must be decent.