Read this link

I did a combo of raise and cost of living increase in 2011. Don't plan one for 2012, however.

Excellent link!!! And, great idea.

I'd be interested to see how this unfolds. On one hand it would possibly reduce your student base if they thought you were already pretty pricey; on the other hand it would show you how many students are committed to you the individual as opposed to the mere idea of taking piano lessons from the most affordable person.

This also leads to another interesting question. What's the ideal wage for a piano teacher? Ideal meaning maximum total monthly take home before a higher hrly price reduces your student base enough to reduce your monthly pay more than it was the month before.

Also, do you base your rate increase off of what others around you are charging through formal/informal teacher collusions?

How do you handle the family that really wants to learn but can't afford the rate increase?

We put our prices up every January - in fact, it specifically states that this will happen in our terms and cons, now. This way, we can keep the increments relatively small, and we don't have to formally announce every rise as it happens - we simply hand the invoice out at the end of December with the new prices.

This year, the price increase for *individual lessons went up by approximately 5% - not a single eyebrow raised in response.

*Paired lessons remained at the same price, as they have done for the last few years, as we wanted to bring them into line with the recommended 2/3 of individual price - when we first opened, we kept the exact same price structure as the music school we'd just left. From next year, they will be subject to the same percentage increase as individual lessons.

I'm surprised that there are not more positive comments. Raising prices of course, 'might' lose some clients but, how good we are, at what we do, clenches sales and retains clients too.

Well after three years in a row of 5% increases, my eyebrows are raised. My income has taken a 15% hit over the last four years. My finances are already being strained, and the latest increase has me thinking. I might have to cut back on the length of my lesson.

And the mystery guest has signed in. This response is more of what I would expect from the person who pays the bills these days.


I guess it depends on whether you teach in a wealthy neighborhood or an area where income is closer to the average household income and whose breadwinners are struggling with unemployment potential and mortgage payments.

There are too many dynamics at play to simply suggest that giving your self a raise is a good idea for everyone. And even though you may feel good about the idea, I would just say look before you leap.

I raise my rates every August. It helps weed out those students who are in just for an "activity" and doesn't affect the more serious students.

While I don't mind the idea of weeding out students who are lackluster about the piano if thats your preference, I am a little concenred that you seem to equate wealth and means of payment as a sign of committment.

I live in Rexburg, ID and the culture here is for parents to enroll every child in piano lessons for as cheap as possible. Even the more established teachers don't charge much which makes it difficult to raise prices. Is it like that in every college town?

Thanks for your concern, D4v3. It's a fact of life that when people pay a little more for something, they take it more seriously. And I have a couple of serious students on scholarship too.

The nice thing about owning your own business is that you can chose what kind of work to do. It's more enjoyable for me to work with students who practice and enjoy music than those who do not. (They don't have to be especially talented.) So that's what I do!

I'm in a college town too, but I still get plenty of requests.

it is a theory rather than a fact of life. It holds true in societies where there is affluence, where people pursue affluence and measure their worth by their ability to spend and the cost of things. It starts swinging the other way when people have very little. So much suffering and hardship is involved in trying to get together the money for expensive things, possibly depriving family members of real needs, that high price becomes a definite deterrant.

Someone who has yearned for private teaching and has not been able to get it in anything - let alone what your affluent students get, for whom piano lessons are one thing among many - will appreciate and do his best because it's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

This is not the same thing as coming into a poor community as an act of charity and throwing music lessons at anyone just because he's poor. obviously appreciation will be hit and miss, with mostly misses.

Stanny, it is good to hear about the scholarships.

Yeah, you are probably right. I should have said "a fact of MY life." I've been lucky to have been born and raised in a town which is fairly recession-proof, so my view of the world is likely skewed. But I still have a couple of students who would not be able to study music if not given some help along the way.

I don't think my students are affluent. Some have lost jobs, gone from two paychecks in the family to one, but definitely not poor. Just very middle class. But it doesn't mean I have to charge less just to help everyone else.

Stanny, you should charge what you are worth. It is only the statement about dedication linked to money that bothers me every time it comes up. It is often true, but not always.

I understand that price rises will inevitably lead to the occasional situation such as yours. However, this isn't really what I implied by saying there were no raised eyebrows - it could well be that some of my students are starting to find it tougher to afford the lessons, too. What I meant was, that by keeping them regular and incremental, our price rises are rarely seen as being unreasonable.

Even after this latest rise, our pricing structure is very competitive in our area.

When it’s time to raise rates, many freelancers worry about hurting their long-time, loyal clients. After all, you may have developed personal relationships over the years. However, it’s critical to remove any emotion from the equation. Increasing your rates shouldn’t offend anyone — it is a pure business necessity. Even Social Security will receive a 3.6% cost of living increase for 2012.

I have raised my prices as the years have gone by, but I don't do it every year. I usually put together a formal letter and send it out a few months in advance of the increase. It is always much easier to raise my rates with new students, but I haven't lost any current students due to increased rates.

I did have one instance where a students parent thought I was doing such a good job and actually gave me a raise! This was when I first started teaching and hasn't happened since, but it was such an encouragement!

I hear what you are saying about "removing emotion from the equation" and that it shouldn't offend people as it is purely a business situation. Try to understand though that the same emotions some teachers get when a student/parent tells them they are leaving for another teacher, may be similar to how a student feels when they discover they can no longer afford to take lessons.

I would also say to expect the parent/person paying to question the merits of the raise against the progress of their child/selves. If I were taking lessons and something more than base inflation was put on me and the teacher was not doing anything more now than they had when we first started then I'm starting to look at the graduate student listings. Now, to me it would be cold of me to do this if I could afford the increase and knew the teacher as a friend and they needed the money, but as you say, I guess it's business and I should only care about my interests and remove emotion from the equation.

So, if a piano teacher is charging I don't know, I'll pick a figure $40 an hour and they raise their rates by 6 % they don't deserve that $2.40 increase but, the rest of the world gets their raises. Fair is fair for everyone.

1. Not everyone in the US gets raises or cost of living increases, infact very few do. Hence the current Occupy Wallstreet movements.

2. Be sensative to the fact that the average hourly wage of Americans is $23.
Average Hourly Wage in US

So as a consumer who makes $17 less than your $40 and who may not get raises, then yes, that 6% raise for an expensive luxury service, non necessity, can be a hard sell for you.

Fact number 1: UPS raising rates in 2012, most by 4.9 percent or more......

By Lynn Adler

Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:39pm EST

(Reuters) - United Parcel Service (UPS.N), the world's largest package delivery company, announced higher rates for most shipping services for 2012.

2: SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (WWLP) - One month ago, thousands of families in Western Massachusetts were still in the dark after the October snowstorm. Next year, WMECO customers will be paying more for their electric bills.

WMECO customers can expect their bills to be about five percent more in 2012. For every $100 you pay, you can add five dollars on that to. If you're electric bill is around $300 a month, you'll be paying around $15 more.

3. The Public Service Commission Thursday approved new electricity and natural gas rates for Madison Gas & Electric Company, which will take effect on January 1, 2012.

It's a 4.1 percent rate increase for electricity and 0.3 percent hike for natural gas. The average residential household will pay an estimated $3.30 more for electricity and $2.26 more for natural gas each month

4. The cold, hard facts
Shipping giant FedEx (NYSE: FDX ) has announced on its website that it will raise some of its shipping rates in 2012. Among the rate hikes to take effect on Jan. 2, 2012, are a 5.9% average hike on FedEx Express package and freight rates and a 5.9% average increase on FedEx Ground and Home Delivery services.

5. Florida wants an extra quarter from drivers on toll roads next year, including at the pay plazas on the Veterans Expressway and the Suncoast Parkway.

6. The USPS® has announced that it will raise shipping rates by approximately 4.6%, effective January 22nd, 2012. The increase comes amidst a chaotic financial outlook for the USPS®. Having recently faced significant plant consolidations, financial losses in the millions, and increased competition, they have strategically responded to these threats by raising their shipping rates.

It's a fact of life. Price increases. None of us can afford to just keep our rates low or keep them below the cost of living. Business just does not work that way unfortunately. I'll re-post this in my other thread as well. Nobody likes it. But, is, the way it is. Eat the cost of doing business? We can only do that for so long. Many of us have already done that for to long now.

The average hourly wage has nothing to do with us. A good number of workers in the US don't have a college degree, or multiple degrees as many piano teachers have.

I think you should raise your rates to the level the market will bear. If you have a waiting list, then you are probably not charging enough.

I think the logic should be reversed, what good did getting those multiple degrees do you when you feel comfortable charging twice as much, plus additional raises, as what the vast majority earn to pay for a service that is a luxury not a necessity.

/ps I'm sorry you see a degree as a form of entitlement.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/ahetpi/10

Feb., 2009: Most workers saw their purchasing power increase in February, according to a report Friday from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

This one climbed too. http://fxtrade.oanda.com/analysis/econom...hourly-earnings

Piano teachers deserve a raise as much as anyone else does.

Real average weekly and hourly earnings increased 3.6 percent last month compared with a year ago. Real average earnings are a measure of the purchasing power of a worker’s earnings when adjusted for inflation.

I don't see free health care as a form of entitlement either. Piano teachers work hard for their degree and if you don't have one, you should not be paid as much then either in my not so humble opinion.

I think this is where your argument hits a brick wall. The rest of the world is not getting their raises.

D4v3: So everyone from physicians on down should all earn the same amount of money?

Although my political leanings are to the left, I'm not going to charge what the average American earns. I would be the lowest paid teacher in my city, which would not do any of the teachers any good.

By the way, I did not write the articles I quoted. I do agree with them however. Read the stats. They most certainly are getting raises. My health insurance rates went up last May 2nd by 53 %. On average, they have increased 20 to 35 % per year for the past 38 years. How am I to pay for these increases if I cannot raise my own rates too?

Stamps are going up once again. Postal workers got an increase. Ford and GM got one too. A LOT more than they should have gotten plus bonuses. Most anything that has a union, gets a price increase at some time or another and so does everyone else.

Ditto.

Not sure where you think the rest of the world gets their raises. I have had over a 45% pay cut in the last 5 years. I know some people who have had a 100% pay cut.

I am not saying that piano teachers or technicians should not raise prices, but not based on the above logic.

Remember what happened to NetFlix?

Jonathan

If someone got a 100 % pay cut, what are they making nothing?

There are jobs where some people are worth more than others. Self employed persons have to make more than people that work for companies because we have larger expenses than they do and more of them.

I looked up my stats on the internet and quoted the links above. That's where my facts came from.

It's called being laid off.

http://www.paywizard.org/main/careertips/Getapayraise Something else interesting.

I am not saying that technicians and instructors should not "give themselves a raise." Just some of the reasoning in this thread for giving yourself a raise are in my opinion laughable.

The best reason for giving yourself a raise in my opinion is this:



My wife runs her own business and this is what her guidelines are. If she raised rates "because everyone gets a raise" I think she would eventually run off her customers.

Jonathan

There are so many variables in why someone should give themselves a raise. Are they worth it? Do they do good work? How are their work ethics? Morals, etc. When was their last price increase? So, let me rephrase what I said because that is not true. Fair is not fair for everyone... Not even close really.

If you actually read the article itself, it does have a lot of interesting things in there to learn about, I think. You don't raise your rates, just because your neighbor does. I don't. I raise mine according to my costs of living, how much education I've gotten over the last 40 years verses my competitors and there is much more to it than that of course.

There are always those that disagree with every one of us but, I don't think that was the original intent of the OP posting the "Give yourself a Raise in 2012" deal to begin with, was it? It wasn't my reason. Mine was education. I enjoy reading about these things.

I already raised my rates this past May when my health insurance decided to increase my rates by 53 % all at once for no good dang reason other than they could.

Wow! That's a terrible attitude to have. Is there something wrong with piano being an activity? What exactly do you prefer it to be?

Neil.

I See nothing wrong with Stanny's position. She has decided that she does not want to work on pianos where people play as an activity - I assume meaning not as a professional or highly dedicated amateur. Stanny has (once again I assume) checked out her business model and there are enough of those folks around so she can make a comfortable living just working for them.

Jonathan

There is nothing wrong with someone who is actually a professional --- meaning they have the background= knowledge & experience and intend to work seriously --- charging the fees of a professional. Professionalism is a combination of ability and attitude.

There IS something wrong with the second statement as it came out. Yes, it is reasonable for someone who wants to work seriously in a professional manner, to also want to work with serious students. But to equate the inability to pay higher rates with not being a serious student is hurtful to any serious student struggling to stay in lessons, or not even be able to get in the door, or having to put up with mediocre teaching because they cannot get at the money.

I don't think that Stanny meant it that way, but that is how it could have been seen. The fact that this teacher has a scheme for a few students who are serious but less well off speaks to the fact.

There is some sense to it. Somebody who has money and is a hobbyist might not be willing to go on if more is expected of him including financially. Any freelancer runs into people who shop around. The bargain hunter is often the least cooperative, hardest to work for or with, and most demanding. I'd bet that this is what it's about.

Well, first of all, Stanny is a she :-)

And I don't know if I meant it that way or not. When I started teaching, I charged way below the going rates. I attracted the type of student who's parents only wanted them to learn piano to say they were learning piano. They rarely practiced, and lessons were a frustration to me. As I raised my rates, the students who really wanted to learn stayed on, and those who didn't practice left. My rates are still middle of the road, because I live in a college town with several piano professors who charge much more than I do.

I am sorry I offended a few of you by my statement. I already stated that I take a few serious students on scholarship (reduced rates.) I just don't want to teach kids who don't practice at all and have no parental support. Parents like this who just want their kids babysat for 45 minutes a week really don't like to pay a lot, so by raising my rates, these students were eliminated. That's my experience. Message boards are to share our experiences, not to call people terrible for sharing.

Hi Stanny, now that you've reworded and explained, I can fully understand where you're coming from. The reason it touched a nerve with me is, I'm an adult beginner, and about to start lessons in January. I would hate for my soon to be teacher to not take me seriously. I'm never going to be able to play piano professionally, but I would hope I'm not considered a lesser student because of this. I want to learn as much as possible and will put the necessary time in to do that. I'd hate to think I might be a weeding problem for not aiming towards professional standards. Piano for me is an activity, but one I intend to continue and enjoy for as long as I can.

I sincerely apologise if I insulted you in any way by my reaction to your post.
Take care,

Neil.

Jerry, had to laugh when I read this. If I dropped my rates to $18 - $20/hr, I would be giving myself a 100% pay cut. If I did that 5 years in a row, the IRS would reclassify me as a hobby, not a business, and then I'd be in the hole 250%. I wonder how many of the non-teachers can figure out why this would be so.

Don't sell yourself short. If that's your goal or dream, work with a teacher who will prepare you to do just that. Many people change careers mid-life, and there are several relatively famous examples of people beginning piano in their 60s and really becoming masters.

I have a studio of over 40 students in Colorado. I am raising my rates slightly this Jan, but this is not a frequent occurance. I have a significant waiting list, and I agree with those who use this as a rule of thumb! Seems to be a good "finger on the pulse" to check where your area stands.

I was hesitant about this rate raise, but I have gotten a lot of good info from a music school coaching program: www.musicacademysuccess.com . My studio has grown a ton since I started working with them (I had 20 students last Jan, so I've doubled in the last year), and I have gotten to the place where I have students that I really love working with. It has helped me to gracefully weed out the students that didn't want lessons but their parents were forcing the issue... and those students have gone on and started other instruments and loved it!

Stanny mentioned this factor: choosing the type of student you just love teaching, and then filling your studio with them so that you look forward to the lessons. It's not that there is anything wrong with other types of students, but as a teacher, you have to recognize your own strengths and weaknesses. There is nothing like loving your job!
Karen

Thank you for the motivating words, I have no idea if my teacher will suit me in that respect or not. I live in a small town in England, only 3 or so teachers nearby, so I picked the one I have based on a telephone call and 2 emails.
For certain there is one factor that will prevent me from ever playing as a profession, and that is nerves. I couldn't even bring myself to play a single note over Xmas for my father-in-law.....he plays keyboard and was excited to learn I had taken up piano......told him maybe next year.

Neil.

Neil, if you didn't have nerves, you wouldn't be human.

FWIW, I work with my young students to present, present, present. Usually, pre-puberty, no problems. Once the hormones kick in, major problems, but as they mature, they develop the skills to cope. Trust me, I no longer perform very often, and those old nerves come back to haunt. Try to muster the strength to play whenever the opportunity arises. You'll be surprised how, over time, you'll transition to a "calmer" state.

Hi John, I'll try to take your words on board in future and thank you for taking the time to comment, it is very much appreciated.

Neil.

An hourly wage is not the same as an hourly rate of a self-employed person. A person who is self employed needs to have a rate considerably higher to net as much as that person making a $23 wage.

I don't think that having higher rates necessarily means that only people with a lot of money are more serious (and I doubt Stanny meant it in that way). But a more serious student will do whatever it takes to pay for lessons, whereas one who is not serious will not. I'm not saying one should raise rates for that reason alone if they want only serious students, but it can be a factor in the decision. Also a part of that decisions is to consider what would be an unnecessary burden on those serious students.

This comes up again and again when discussing fees. Those who feel their teacher is not worth the money they're asking will go elsewhere and no doubt will be able to find someone cheaper. That's how a free market works. If that teacher is overcharging for the service they provide they may eventually be priced out of the market altogether, but there's no guarantee.

As for the comment earlier about what the average American worker makes (was it $23/hour?), does the average American have to pay 100% of their own health insurance or have to do without? Do they need to pay overhead to go to work such as rent, utilities, maintenance of instruments, teaching materials, seminars, etc.? Does the average worker work during non-working hours without pay? Does the average worker have to collect payment from their employer, who may or may not pay them in a timely fashion, bounce checks, try to get more free work out of you, etc.? I'm not complaining about my choice of vocation. I love it. Nor am I looking down at the "average American worker". But you must compare apples with apples here. Why not compare what a teacher charges vs. what another self-employed individual charges to be fair?

Some of the Teachers in here have some stinky attitudes.

The fact that some of you believe that its a good idea to raise your prices as high as you can get away with to weed out serious students from the non-serious is laughable.

How about admitting that you are trying to shake down people for as much as you can get because you can take advantage of the situation?

If my piano teacher raised her rates..the first question I would ask is "Why?". Besides, some of you have this "Im a hot commodity" attitude like you are are highly sought after. Maybe some of you are...but Im sure those students wear a gas mask when they come over for lessons.

I dont mind paying more if I am getting more out of it...raising your rates by %6 each year makes you seem just as greedy as some of these corporations out here, IMO.

And call me a non serious student if you want to.


Wealth does NOT equal Willingness to learn. What a sick attitude to have!

Piano teachers "shaking people down"? LOL!

The teachers I know who increase fees each year, increase about 2% per year. I don't think anyone claimed a 6% increase yearly.

The first article quoted boils down to this: A freelancer has to decide when to increase fees. There is no boss who gives a raise. If you haven't raised fees in years, you're probably undercharging.

Anyway, if you don't like what your teacher charges you are free to look elsewhere for what you may think is a better deal. Maybe you'll even be fortunate enough to find a kind soul who isn't so mean as to charge for lessons...someone who volunteers her time.. and you won't even have to pay for lessons at all.

Well, my first reply to this thread might have implied something close to that. As it happens, most years it has been only a few percent.

The point is - other local schools/teachers have all raised their prices over the years, too. Some do it annually, some less frequently, but then the percentage increase tends to be higher. Regardless, throughout the last 8 years our price-point has remained around the lower-middle of what others are charging in our area.

Did I say I didnt like what my teacher charges? I dont mind payiing for lessons AT ALL. What I do mind is dealing with some elitist teacher who thinks they deserve more money just because and rationalizing raising rates as something that is necessary to weed out who is more dedicated and who is not. Be honest, it isnt about who is more dedicated, its about who is rich enough to pay a premium for your service which you have determined based on some numbers that have NOTHING to do with freelance piano teachers.

I am fortunate enough to not have a teacher as stuck up as some of the folks in this thread. If she raised her rates, Id totally be fine with it because she would probably have a better reason other than trying to figure out who is willing and who is not.

I dont know what you charge for lessons, Ann in Kentucky...but Im sure its not enough to deal with your stinky attitude even if you think you are the best teacher in town.

BrokenChord, you are sounding like a broken record. No one wants to hear your insults. Why don't you stop holding your nose and browse some other forum more pleasing to your nasal preferences?

You are right...why am I in the teachers forum? Im not full enough of myself to be posting here. Nor am I paying enough money for my lessons to appreciate how rare and valuable a piano teacher is and how much more trying their economic situation is compared to the rest of the economy.

Oh gosh. Not nice.
I think you have the wrong impression of the teachers on this forum- and let me say right away I am NOT a piano teacher- but an adult student/piano player.
I've been reading and occ. posting on this forum for about a year now and I find the teachers to be polite, professional and very caring about their profession. I haven't detected a snobbish attitude from any of them. Admittedly, the internet makes it easy to misinterpret what someone is saying and perhaps, this is what's happening here.

In any case, from my perspective, Ann seems to be a nice lady, who seems to love teaching piano and has a VERY CLEAN REFRIGERATOR.

Can't we all just get along?

I dont have a problem with anyone I just dont not like some of the statements that I have been reading from Piano teachers in this thread. While most of them seem to be good people who want to make a living...it annoys me that there are a few people in this very thread that are simply raising their prices because they want to attract wealthier customers. I also dont agree with this attitude about money equaling dedication.

I pay quite a bit for my lessons, I am a college student who became interested in studying Piano. I am just as dedicated as someone who has been playing for years, I am willing to learn and I am willing to pay anyone who is willing to teach me.

However, I am not willing to deal with someone with an attitude like what I am seeing out of some of these teachers in this forum.

By the way, Ann...If my teacher decided to volunteer her time, that would be perfectly fine me. She teaches piano because it is her passion, she isnt trying to hike up her prices to get rich. I guess she should unplug her nose too, eh?

I seriously doubt the teachers are raising their rates to "get rich". I think there's a misunderstanding there- plus, I may be wrong but I cannot imagine people teach piano with the goal of getting rich.

I'm betting they are raising their rates in order to KEEP UP WITH THIS DANG COST OF LIVING!
Not sure it's as obvious to a college student ( I only say this b/c when I was in college, my focus was on plenty other than the economy) but services and products are getting rapidly more expensive. My health insurance premium is going up by 10%, while my salary has been frozen for a few years now (and I work for the federal government- poor me, right?). Shall we discuss the price of food (compared to what it was not that long ago), the price of gas, utilities, automobile insurance- I could go on, but you get the idea. Heck, just signing my son up for Little League is nearly $200 !

If I owned my own business, I would sure try to raise the price of my goods and/or services in order to keep up! I wish I had that option! I think people forget that teaching piano is a business- and not non-profit.

I didn't quite interpret the posts the way you did....
Anyways, good luck with your studies and Happy New Year's to everyone !

Joy, I was talking specifically about those teachers in this thread that claim they were trying to "weed out" students by raising their prices.

That sounds a whole lot different from "Im trying to survive in this economy".

I did not misinterpret that.

You dont have to tell me about the cost of living I am not swimming in money over here either, my university keeps raising the tuition EVERY year by the maximum percentage allowed. Im hurting too. I live in an apartment and I pay my own rent, I have to pay high prices for food...books..entertainment. I am paying off a $1000 (thats a friggin Co-pay!) medical bill on my own. OUCH! I do all this by myself, I dont have mommy and daddy's money...I work my butt off! And here I am, spending extra money I dont have on learning to play an instrument because its something that makes me happy and I am dedicated to it.

The only thing that needs to be weeded about are those who dont appreciate their customers. That goes for teachers and whoever else.

Thats all I was trying to say.

Anyway, I wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Our studio raised their rates for 2012. Enough for me to consider why she is going there vs a different instructor. At this cost though, it is worth it to me (liberal make up policy, flexible hours, not in my home and very close to my home).

Her other instructor (for a different activity) didn't raise her rates in 4 years. Over the past two years she has taken a lot of training, seminars, and tests to gain additional credentials. I had no problem with her raising her rates for 2012. We are getting a better instructor than when she began with us 4 years ago so she costs more.

I have a child who practices, is a hard worker, and enjoys lessons. But it is a worry that we can easily be priced out. We already make sacrifices so she can do these activities.

Thanks BrokenChord. Hope you have a Happy New Year too!

I'll admit that I have never felt the need to weed students out by raising fees. Raising fees is stressful for me and I hate to do it. This past year I finally crept up to the going rate in my community and I'll probably be at this rate for years.

I just got into the battle because I felt a bit low. And the idea of jousting with someone who likes to use the word "stinky" perked me up. I didn't disagree with what you said, but with HOW you said it. But it was unprofessional of me and I intend to be more professional this year. Still, I got a kick out of it and I feel more cheerful today. I'll stay out of it now.

I love this description! Thanks! It would be fun to use it in a bio if I'm asked to write one.

Many people do not raise their rates yearly. 20 years ago, my accountant told me that if I did not raise my rates as a "self employed person" a minimum of 3.5 % per year, "at that time," I would only stay even with the rising cost of living expenses, eventually, falling behind because I would only be charging the actual cost of living. There are always other things rising higher and faster in price. Gasoline prices come to mind.

Well frankly, I have not 'always' raised my rates that much every year either. But, eventually, I do feel it as the cost of doing business keeps going up regardless. During those times, I will make one larger increase to make up for it. I learned a long time ago though that the best way of doing it was to make smaller incremental increases each year if not at least, every other year.

If you did not raise your rates for 5 years and you decided to increase your rates this year, then, you would really need to figure out what the cost of living was for those past 5 years and raise your rates at least that much just to break even. 3 % x 5 years for example means a minimum increase of 15 %. Seems like a lot to those that do not have business related expenses but, if a teacher or anyone else, left their prices the same for 5 years, that's pretty darned good. A 15 % increase then, is still, barely getting by for them then.

I enjoy interesting articles and here is another one with the link to it. Maybe you will find it interesting as well. I hope so.

Average 2012 pay raise 3%, more for top workers: study (NOTE TOP WORKERS)

BY FRANCINE KNOWLES Business Reporter fknowles@suntimes.com July 27, 2011 9:20PM

Updated: July 28, 2011 2:13AM

Pay raises next year will average 3 percent, but top performers can expect more, according to a survey released by human resources consulting company Mercer Wednesday.

The average 3 percent increase for all workers will be up from 2.9 percent in 2011 and from 2.7 percent in 2010.

Half of employers planning the bigger increase next year say greater competition for workers and anticipated labor shortages are the main reasons they’re bumping up pay more.

Mercer found employers are concentrating rewards on key top employees as they worry about retention. Top performers got average base pay increases of 4.4 percent this year, compared to 2.8 percent for average performers, Mercer found.

“The continuing fragile economy has caused employers to remain worried about increasing compensation,” Catherine Hartmann, principal with Mercer’s Rewards consulting business, said in a statement. “However, they are more worried about losing their best employees to their competitors. Differentiating salary increases based on performance has become a necessity with limited resources.”

click here for the link to it.

I would just like to point out, seeing that the pay of employed persons has again been quoted, that teachers have just protested against the quoting of what employees get, saying that it's apples and oranges: that the situation of freelancers is not the same as that of employees. You guys will have to figure out which it should be. If salaries are quoted to justify this, then mention of salaries to counter it also has to be allowed. Just saying.

Sorry Keystring, I'm not trying to offend anyone here. You know that. My point was what the average pay increase was and that there was one. Dinky, but, there was one and it varied according to performance.

Happy New Year you all. Enjoy today and tomorrow.

No offence, Jerry - besides as both student and freelancer, I am on both sides of the fence. Just hoping to head off possible confusion because they way it went:

- you wrote about salaries employed people get, as an argument for increased fees
- people argued against the increase, by talking about reduced salaries
- teachers then argued that arguments about salaries should not be mixed in with discussions about self-employment
- and then the salaries are back

The salary thing might be a red herring, since people out there have all kinds of experiences, so salaries can be used to argue anything. Many get increases, but others lose jobs, get pay cuts etc. So arguments can go anywhere.

For the record, I didn't quote those things in addition to saying employees vs. self-employed is apples vs oranges. I've always considered the two very different, and it is someone else who is quoting employees I guess.

This thread has been fascinating to me! It is such an emotional topic and it is interesting to see how different people react, and what their perception of what is reasonable regarding pay/fee increases.

One of the things I have told clients if they raise an eyebrow at a rate increase is to let them know that I owe it to my family to get the best compensation I can. I'm not in business "Just for the love of it", although it is true that I get a lot of satisfaction out of it. The reality is the satisfaction alone doesn't keep the lights on. It also doesn't pay for healthcare, sick leave, vehicle expenses, vacation, retirement, office expenses, supplies, continuing education, trade organization dues, etc, etc...

From a business perspective, smaller, more frequent increases make a lot more sense than occasional larger increases. Consider the two scenarios:

Teacher A charges $40 per hour lesson and teaches 48 weeks out of the year. After 5 years he raises his rates to $50 per hour (a 25% increase) At the end of 10 years he has grossed $21,600 for that one-hour lesson slot.

Teacher B took a business class and decided to commit to a 6% per year increase: 3% for cost of living and 3% for increased experience. Year 1 she is charging $40 per hour slot, year 2 she is charging $42.50. Year 3 she is charging $45.05, etc. Based on this model, teacher B will gross $25,362.24 for that one-hour slot over a period of 10 years. That is a difference of $3762.24.

That doesn't sound like much until you consider that each teacher has 20, one-hour spots filled. Now the difference in their gross income is $75,244.80 over 10 years.

Teacher A has to agonize over the rate increase and maybe looses a few students with the big rate jump.

Teacher B agonizes a little the first couple of years and then gets used to the annual increase. The students don't bat an eye at the small increases and appreciate the predictability and ability to plan for the expense.

Teacher B also may feel more inspired to do her best work because she is being better compensated. The higher rate eliminates the "bargain shoppers" from her clientele. She begins to attract better and more loyal clients. This, in turn, raises her reputation, making it even easier to justify the slightly larger fee. This kind of synergy can really drive a business forward as opposed to just treading water.

yes........but what if you need those clients...then they leave you and you can't pay your bills..

I think the article should have said something about whether or not your business was established and successful, not just 'if it's the same rate you were charging 10 years ago', because that is not a direct sign that your business is doing well.

One should always, be looking to establish themselves and their clientele to the point that you have more work than you can handle. If, after 10 years, a person still needs all of those clients because they still do not have enough, and the business hasn't been established to the point where one can actually make a living, then it might be time to look at oneself. As for myself, these past three years, despite the economy, have been my best years yet.

Here's more food for thought...

Let's say, for the sake of argument, you have 30 students paying $80 a month for lessons. This would create a gross monthly income of around $2400 (close to poverty wages for a family of 4, by the way).

Now let's say you raise your rates to $90 per month. 3 of your students decide to quit. Now your only making $2430. Wait! You just gained $30 and you have 3 time slots open where you can work on improving the quality of your business!

Lets say you raise your rates to $100. You can now have 6 students quit and make the same money. At $120 per month you only need 20 students to earn the same money.

My point is that piano teachers are way better off focusing on quality not quantity. One of the best ways to transition into the higher quality market is to simply raise your rates and take the extra time gained to work on the quality of your business.

The most important thing to realize is that the time to raise them is today. The more you wait, the longer it takes you to reap the positive benefits. You are not being greedy. You are taking care of yourself and providing better service to your clients. I challenge teachers to commit to a modest yet substantial increase every year. Believe me it's the way to go.

For those who take up the challenge, please post again in a few months and let us know how it went!

Wrong. You forgot to take out the cost of running the business including liability and health insurance, cost of instrument (s) and maintenance (which can be quite high - my piano cost $20k), newspaper/yellow book ads, website production and maintenance, utilities and rent of the studio space and/or gas and maintenance on vehicle if drive to student homes, not to mention the intangibles like continued education, seminars, guild memberships, and unpaid time spent on lesson plans, recital organization, billing/collection, and general correspondence to families on scheduling conflicts.

in 2010, I had a full studio and taught consistently. I had all of the above expenses. My gross profit (not including deductions for things like depreciation) was $6200. Without expenses I made $27k, or $2250/month. Again, the only deductions I took out from the $27k was actual money spent running the business. This is the the entire YEAR. You cannot consider gross earnings of a company with gross earnings of an employee. The two are not comparable.




I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or speaking in earnest here. I don't think anyone is talking about low-quality teaching. The more conscientious teachers teach, the better they get as years go by. Like in most jobs, an employee who has experience earns more than one who has little or none. So in that sense, one can compare the worth or value of a self-employed person with an employee. But an employee does not have to bear the weight of the company's overhead.

edited to add: Another thing to consider is that if you charge $25/half hour, and you raise your rates 3%, you're looking at another $0.75 per lesson. That is not going to overburden someone. Really, if they can't find that kind of change in their car or couch, they're not looking hard enough! I know that money is tight for everyone, but I pay whatever is necessary to my teachers so that I can continue to be a better musician and I know they are worth every penny.

In the above example, even if you go from $80/month ($20/lesson) to $90/month ($22.50/lesson) we're talking about a 12-13% increase, which is much higher than anyone here mentioned doing. Still, if something happened that justified such an increase like getting a master's degree or becoming certified, perhaps an increase of 12% would be warranted. And yet, such a high increase and the cost to the student would only be another $10/month.

Morodiene, I completely agree with you. If you look at my post that I posted up above (5 spaces up) I mention many of these things. I understand that running a professional quality business can be expensive. With my business, my wife and I figure our net income is approximately 50% of our gross income.

I was really responding to Dustin above, who stated in regards to fee increases:

My point was that I doubt that even with a $10 per month increase in lesson fee, you would most likely only loose a few students (or possibly none!), and the extra income generated from the increase would most likely make up for it, with the added benefit of giving you more time and motivation to improve the quality of the business. Obviously you can take this too far, but I'm not talking extremes.

I was not being sarcastic at all! I'm surprised that my remark possibly came across that way. I never said anything about "low-quality teaching" so you are putting words in my mouth. What I'm trying to do is encourage teachers to transition into the higher end of the market, and to use regular rate increases as a way of transitioning into it.

The facts are that most piano teachers don't belong to a professional organization. Out of those that do belong, most of them don't attend meetings. Out of that limited number most of them are not continuing to study piano with a mentor. Out of that minority most don't attend conferences. The fact that a teacher is participating in an online forum is a good indication that they are passionate about their job, and want to learn and improve.


Not necessarily. There are some very mediocre, cut-rate piano technicians who have 40 or more years of experience, and I'm sure its the same with teachers. Years of experience may have some bearing on quality but there are plenty of examples where it does not. Some of the teachers with the lowest rates are around retirement age. One of the teachers I know with one of the highest rates has only been out of college a couple of years and is still in his 20's.

For over 5 years, I've been hammering this topic. It seems amazing to me that so many teachers, let alone students, consider a teacher's hourly rate to be their take-home pay. I think I've told this story before: I had a student whose mom was classroom teacher and she was constantly carping about my rates. Finally, I offered to charge her only what she was paid per hour of in-classroom teaching. She obviously had never thought of her job in terms of the client's perspective, because when we took her gross pay and benefits, divided it by annual teaching days and teaching hours per day, she was quite flummoxed to discover she was being paid very well indeed. Of course, it was the last I heard of "unreasonable" teaching rates.

Awesome post John!

I'm intrigued by some of the parallels between piano teachers and piano technicians. Here's some of the similarities:

1. The vast majority are self-employed
2. Most have very limited business training.
3. They tend to be more artistic/relationship driven than money driven.
4. There are many people in the field who have minimal or no formal training.
5. There are many in the field who work at it part time.
6. There are many who work well past normal retirement age.
7. There are many who rely on a spouses job for medical benefits.

For these reasons the range of compensation is huge. I know well-trained piano teachers who are charging $10 per hour, and have met others who are charging $100. I have known some teachers who have had over 50 students and a substantial waiting list, and others who have 5. I know teachers with two Steinway grands in their studios, and others who give lessons on a 1970 spinet.

I also know teachers with students that consistently seem to be getting a real kick out of playing the piano and appear to progress at an accelerated rate, and I know teachers whose students consistently stagnate and don't progress. I believe there are a few teachers who actually cause damage.

Goodness, Broken Chord, you are certainly upset about my choice of words or my business philosophy. I know you are in a very economically challenging state to live and work in and with medical bills on top of that, I know it is difficult.

I have a very large studio and a part-time job on top of that to help make ends meet. I work 7 days a week...no lie. I have to pay for my own benefits. I put myself through college with jobs and scholarships. If I had a violin, I'd play us both a sad song.

To say you think we should teach just because we have passion and not get rich. Ha, have you met any really financially rich piano teachers? Really? Should we all work for free? Maybe when you graduate you will understand.

Uh, yes. I personally know two of them; one teaches for free and another teaches for nearly free. Both inherited an ungodly sum of money from their parents.

Otherwise, I agree with everything else you wrote.

I don't understand this. How can someone salaried like this not know ? All the info is in the paycheck/statement- gross pay, taxable wages, nontaxable wages, tax deferred wages, medicare deductions, retirement saving plan deductions, federal taxes, health benefit deductions, etc. How can someone be surprised at their gross OR net pay? wow.

Having taught in the classroom, I can tell you that a teacher's work extends beyond the official hours. You are creating lesson plans, lesson material, talking to parents and students after class, attending meetings, doing research, writing reports and report cards. This does not happen during class time, and these hours are not figured into regular hours. A pay statement will not give you your actual working hours, and so you cannot see your true per hour wages that way. I think that's what John was getting at. Of course this is generally true for any work at a professional level.

It's fairly easy, actually. Most public employees and perhaps corporate employees consider their pay based on number of hours worked, not on the number of hours serving customers/clients. Public school teachers, bless their hearts, normally think of the total hours they work a week, and divide their salary by that figure, not on the number of hours spent actually teaching in the classroom. If I had to guess, most spend as much time in prep, and other required work, as they do teaching. But when a parent or adult student contacts a piano teacher, they are only considering their cost per hour of learning, not the teacher's overhead, prep work, such as conferences, practicing student's music. The two figures are wildly different, and can cause much consternation.

I didn't say you should teach JUST because you are passionate about teaching. I said, you should not arbitrarily raise your rates because of some random statistics that have NOTHING to do with TEACHING PIANO!

While you are trying to tell me I don't understand... weren't you the teacher that stated that you raise your rates to "weed" people out?When another teacher tried to clarify what you meant, you said something to the effect "I am not exactly sure if thats what I did not mean". Give me a break.


And yes...I do know someone who teaches and isnt relying on Piano lessons for their sole source of income. My Piano teacher's husband is a Chemical Engineer and they are putting two kids through college and they seem to be well off. Whats your point? She started teaching piano because she wanted to share her talent with other people, she did not set out to make a living teaching because she was already set. I guess shes in it for the wrong reasons then.

Maybe if you "weed" out enough of your students, you can find some sorry soul who can pay for your benefits and your college and all that other stuff because the plight of Piano teachers in this country is so much worse than those of us who are in other occupations.

It must be SO hard! I have no idea, Im just an undergraduate majoring in Engineering, I have NO idea about what its like to be a private piano teacher because I am not one. I need to graduate before I understand anything about having to work to feed myself, pay bills, and all that Jazz.

Don't patronize me.

Okay, that's just not nice

Well...based on his/her own statements in the earlier posts in this thread. It was nice.

He/She literally stated that they used fee changes to weed out the serious students from the non-serious.

I feel sorry for anybody that fell victim to that kind of business practice.


*Also: I don't mean to bash piano teachers as a whole. Not everyone is bad or is doing things for the wrong reason. It irks me when someone in ANY profession has a nasty attitude towards their consumers. I also dont like when someone feels their situation is far worse/better than someone else's because they work in a different field. In this case, I don't think a Piano Teacher's problems is any different than a Mailman's.

What's wrong with weeding your client base? The reason we weed gardens is so that that the garden can produce better. There is nothing unethical about raising rates so that the least loyal clients drop out. You can also call this "skimming the cream" off your clientele.

I don't think it is the teachers problem to worry about the financial situation of their clients. For starters you have no idea what people's financial situations are. There are people living in trailer homes that are doing better financially than some people in mansions. People living at the poverty level, still find money for cell phones, cable TV, high-speed internet, and big screen TV's. Besides, sometimes grandparents or other benefactors are helping with the lessons.

If teachers care about their profession, they should be doing everything possible to make the profession attractive to smart, creative, ambitious people. One of the best ways to attract talent into any profession is to make sure the pay is competitive. By keeping rates lower than they need to be, teachers are undermining the well-being of the profession, IMO.

"Random stats?" "Have nothing to do with teaching piano?" You sound young. As if, piano teachers do not deserve a price increase or something? I lost you on that one.

This is what I had to pay last year just for health insurance alone. For starters, I had a 53 % increase in my health insurance cost as of this past May. I currently pay $640 a month for 2 people and have BCBS.

In 2011, I "paid" a $7,000 "per year deductible," before anything else even began to kick in. Can you imagine my surprise when I found out that out patient physical therapy, NONE OF IT is covered at all? As if, we don't need PT???

After my $7,000 deductible was met I paid another 80/20 up to $10,000 which I also met.

After having 2 surgeries, it put my portion for my cost for my health insurance well over $17,000 not including prescription costs.

I had two operations in 12 months. Last years operation (in September of 2010) was just in time to not quite meet my deductible last year but, I did meet it this year. Not to mention the amount of money I lost working. That's right. No worky...no free payeeee....

Those that have all of this stuff given to them as a part of working for an employer, count your blessings because it is not free to anyone and it is very expensive for the rest of us.

Those that are self employed have to raise their rates a lot more than those that work for someone else just to break even with what that other person makes, if that is possible after all of their expenses are deducted.

There really isn't any reason to be sarcastic...

My health insurance went up $89 per month last year, and $119 this year.

This makes sense to me.

I need to raise my rates this year, in March, June or September. Still waffling, and not sure why. This thread is not entirely helping, haha!

Hm. I think what is being missed here was on the first page of the thread. Stanny made the statement that raising rates helps discourage those students who are just taking lessons as one more thing to do and want the cheapest rate, and that her serious students were not affected.

Another poster besides Broken Chord expressed a concern that Stanny equates having enough money to not mind a rate increase with being serious. Stanny's reply was, thanks for the point, she also has some serious students on scholarship.

I think Broken Chord has reacted to the perceived wealth/serious equivalency, and missed the scholarship - a lesser fee for some students who are serious but for whom the increase is difficult.

So I don't think, in fact, Stanny equates wealth/serious - her first post specifically mentioned weeding out those looking first for inexpensive lessons. Her second post, then, clarified further her true position - she gives scholarships to those students who are serious but can't afford a higher fee.

If she in fact equated wealth and seriousness I'd take exception, too - but I don't think she does.

I, too, am an independent contractor. Some people can afford my rates and some cannot. I try to keep my rates at such a level that I can make a decent living - and I'm for sure not rich - and mostly the market tells me what that is. Too high and I don't get clients Whether I am willing to have scholarships for some is a business/personal decision.

Any way, I think that's part of what's going on here

Cathy

Well-said. And I wanted to say thank you for clarifying your previous post. I agreed with it, but then I thought, maybe you were being sarcastic and wanted to check! Part of my response was just in general and not directed at you so sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you.

"fell victim to that kind of business practice"??? What, left a teacher because they couldn't afford them and found a teacher more in their price range? According to you, Stanny is a terrible teacher for doing this, so it's better for the student if the student leaves and finds a cheaper teacher who doesn't do such unethical things as decide what kind of studio she wants to run. No one is a "victim" here.

You've been very nasty, especially considering that Stanny later stated that she has a couple of serious students on scholarship. So those that are serious but in financial need can still get access to her teaching if her rates are not possible. Yet you insist this is a nasty attitude toward students. I think it is a proper attitude toward treating her business like a business, and being respectful of other teachers as well. One piano teacher who charges the same rate they charged in the 1950s ruins the market for every other teacher who needs to make a living and not able to rely upon another person's income for support.

I agree too, well said Ryan. I was trying to say the same thing but wasn't managing it very well! Good job!

Raising fees--even if it means to weed out certain students--is not being nasty; it's a fiscal necessity.

Speaking from personal experience, when I raised my fees substantially in 2006, I actually got better students. I still get a lot of calls from parents looking for cheap piano teachers, but I'm certain there are teachers in their preferred price range.

Well, I never said you had to provide your service at a loss. Actually, I never once said anything about you having to keep your rates cheap. My gripe was with the idea that simply raising rates would attract only the most serious people. There are people out there that would love to learn anything if they can afford to but they do not have the money. Money certainly does not equal power and that is nice if someone is willing to provide a scholarship for those people but its totally irrational to believe that the highest bidders are the most willing.

I work for the Science college at my University, some of these parents are paying for college out of pocket for their kids to be here and their kids come into our office crying about professors picking on them and wanting to know if they can hide grades from their parents. It costs $20,000 a year to In-State and $27,000 for out of state. You would think all that money would motivate them to do well, but it does not for some of them, its just time away from their parents. On the other hand, we have some students here that arent so rich and are paying with loans and they are taking this very seriously.

I deal with these people on a daily basis and I can see everything that they do in school, where they come from, and what kind of grades they got in school before they got here. The tuition at my University goes up every year (When I got here in 2008, tuition was $250/credit. Today, it is $500/credit), and these people still do the same as they do every year....absolutely nothing.

Anyway, my point is...if you raise your rates because you think you are going to get rid of the bargain shoppers and people who just want to say their kids are taking piano...you will probably still get those people, they will just be bargain shoppers and lazy people with more money.


....and Im pretty sure I am paying what most of you charge for your lessons to my own teacher. So obviously I am not shopping for a bargain.

AZNpiano,

Great post! I'd like to know more about how it went when you raised your rates substantially in 2006. How much did you raise them? How did you inform your students? How did they react. How many students did you lose, if any?

It's great to hear people's real life experience with this issue.

And, to me, that was clarified on the first page, after someone else also understood it slightly differently. I don't think that was what was said/meant, and the clarification says it wasn't. In other threads here teachers talk about other ways to deal with non-serious students/parents besides rates - and some teachers actually don't mind students who are less "serious" - they're learning whatever they want to learn. I guess because I read this forum quite a bit I have that larger perspective.

I also think your point was slightly different - that people who aren't wealthy or can't afford the raise are not necessarily non-serious. It's a little different, but I think clarity is important. And I think the teacher's attitude was clarified on the first page.

Cathy

BrokenChord,

Your anecdote shows that money is a factor when gauging how serious someone is about an endeavor. You're saying that students who rely on parents to pay for their education are less serious than the ones who have to bear more of the financial burden themselves. The ones whose parents pay are essentially getting their education free, and may be at higher risk of taking it for granted.

Bottom line: What we pay more for we respect more.

I would believe you if MOST piano students were paying adults and not children who have parents who pay. How then, does having a parent pay more for your lessons mean that their child is going to be a serious client?

My basic point was that you have those who can and those who cannot. Those who can afford to pay $50 for a 30 minute lesson arent necessarily those who will go home and practice, bring their materials to the lesson, show up to lessons on time...etc.

Im sure there are plenty of people out there who can only afford to pay $30 for a 30 minute lesson that will take it more seriously than someone willing to pay $20 more.

I threw in the anecdote about the students at the science college because I know many of them are non paying students who have paying parents that are willing to take an increase (ridiculously high!) in tuition..just like the kids you guys teach piano to.

But, anyway, I'm sure there is a teacher out there somewhere that can take pity on someone who can only afford to pay $30. They might turn out to be the best student ever.

First of all, there are adults who claim they can't afford lessons under the best of situations, who waste far more than the price of a weekly lesson on things they don't need it all. That has been talked about a lot. For me they don't have their priorities straight, and if a small raise in my prices makes them bolt, I have only contempt for them.

But there are other adults who are truly scraping by (much as I am, much as many TEACHERS are), due to skyrocketing healthcare costs (the price of insurance now is INSANE), and everything else that is going up. With those people I have a running dialog about how hard it is for all of us, and I think we all sort of feel like we are "in it together". I do everything possible to keep costs down. In fact, most of the music I use is free, done by me in Finale, and the editing time and personal effort is enormous, but it is worth it to me because of the personal touch, the ability to edit exactly as I please, and the personal growth. That's win-win. But it does eat up a HUGE amount of time.

The families who are perhaps doing a little better than average are often amazingly helpful by bringing in reams of paper, helping out with my ink costs, etc.

We can't talk about everything we do in private. Personally, I am well aware of which students (of all ages) are working really hard and appreciate what I do, and I do things for them that I don't even talk about in public. I'd bet a lot of teachers do the same. Probably most.

It doesn't. But I will tell you one thing for a FACT: there are parents who will switch teachers in a heartbeat if they can find a teacher who is a block closer, or one who will charge a dollar less, or one who will make up lessons that are missed for NO reason other than total irresponsibility. This is not a money issue. It is a stupid-parents issue. And it's more common than you think. It keeps totally ignorant teachers in business and hurts all the rest of us.

I'm not exaggerating. These are the parents who neither recognize nor appreciate a good teacher, and the attitude usually rubs off on the kids, who adopt the same attitude.

The thing that rips me apart is when I get kids, of any age, who know I am a good teacher and appreciate what I do but who have parents who are too selfish and foolish to realize that and so switch them to another teacher who is terrible. And that does happen.

It is also true that sometimes my young students will actually fight their parents about making a foolish switch!

Now, what about the cases in which a dollar more per lesson will actually make a difference. That would be four or five dollars a month. Are some people really that "hard off"?

My answer: yes. There are people making huge sacrifices already. One family was taking a bus to get to me. I've had families who had to drop out a month in order to save up enough money to start up again. One of my teen students is contributing money from a job to help pay bills. It won't surprise anyone that he is a great student.

And I bust my a** for these people, doing everything possible to help them.

However, if I can't make enough money to pay my bills, if I can't make enough money to fill my prescriptions, to get gas, to do the other things that are necessities, I can't do my job.

That's why I say it is tough for everyone. This is just my perspective. I don't see raising rates as a means of driving away people who are not serious, because my experience tells me that many serious students are barely making enough money for lessons, or have parents who barely make enough to pay for them, while there are spoiled rotten children (with parents who raise them that way) who have all the money they need.

And the idea that parents who appreciate music have kids who do, and that parents who know very little about music have kids who do NOT--well--that is simply utter crap. My parents became somewhat sophisticated about music through ME, because I continued to educate THEM for as long as they lived.

Life is not fair. The best we can do is to try to look out for the people who are serious, the ones who really care, and I'd be very surprised if most of the teachers here don't do that.

I also think some of the "hardness" that seems to come through in these threads is a bit of posturing--or people trying to talk themselves into not being taken advantage of!

And I agree with that point. I'm not sure that anyone disagrees with it. But I would suggest that it is the students have to struggle SOMEWHAT, to earn the right to have lessons, who do not have an attitude of entitlement, who tend to be the stand-out musicians, in the long run.

Totally true!!!

I'd also add that most likely I could charge more money if I wanted to target people who have enough money to buy and sell me. That's just not who I am. Year after year some of the most wonderful students I have are they ones who are just barely making it (or their parents are barely making it). I do expect to be paid, but appreciation and respect is hugely important to me, and if someone was willing to pay me $100 a lesson but with the attitude that I was his/her inferior, someone to be treated like a lower-class servant, that person would be gone out of my life in a heartbeat.

To me earning money in that manner makes prostituation a noble profession by comparison.

That's good Gary,

What I have found over the years, is that parents who do not play the piano themselves, are a lot less apt to have the piano tuned. They are a lot more apt, to look for the cheapest tuner and the cheapest teacher even if they can afford it. It is a lack of education on their behalf then. Which becomes up to us, to change. They quite often own a piano that is pure junk. And quite often, they could care less, regardless of how much education I attempt to give them because, they do not play it themselves, therefore, they fail to realize how poorly it is playing.

While they may be sending their kids for lessons, they do not understand that by having a poorly tuned piano or one that is piece of junk, they are setting them up for failure. Their child goes to the lesson, plays on a nice piano, only to come home to play a piece of junk piano that hasn't been tuned in 15 years, has sticking keys, notes that are not working at all, or the touch is horribly uneven, etc.

These same parents will say to me, "it is good enough for them to start out on." I can't count the amount of times I have heard that line. Probably thousands? All technicians hear that one. I ask them if they would want a concert pianist to come into their house right now and play their piano? OH HEAVENS NO! Why not? If it's good enough for your child, isn't it just as "good enough" for them too? Well, stammer, stammer, stammer.....no but, but, what??? I just say, do you get my point? If they, as a concert artist, would not want to play on this piano, they why would anyone else, including your child want to play on it? If you want them to succeed then you need to have something that will encourage them to do so. Let me help you... One way or another, we can find something, that is better than this at fair price... I will even look at it for you for nothing, just to help you out...

I read an article 30 some years ago. I can't recall where but, i want to say that it was the Music Teachers Association or, something like that (anyone remember this that can help me?) did some research on the reasons students stopped taking lessons. (Maybe it was Yamaha?) The number one reason, they found, was sheer frustration at having to play on a piano that was not well taken care of.

While "some" cannot afford to do much to their piano, there are just as many, if not more that can, but choose not to do so. I see what they drive, what they own, what they smoke.

On the other hand, I also see that many parents who take it seriously, most often, listen and learn. They have the piano fixed if it needs it, by a competent technician. They have it tuned yearly, at least. They buy something decent and their kids have a lot more fun taking lessons. Eventually, these kids inherit the nice piano.

Jerry, I just love your comments. As a teacher, I am constantly frustrated by talented students who have to fight inferior instruments at home, don't want to practice for the same reason. And I've heard hundreds of parents say the same thing: it is good enough for them to start out on. What they don't realize is that it defeats the hard work both teacher and student do at the lesson. Thanks for posting this.

You need to ask the parents if they would think that a car that has 5 inches of free play in the steering wheel is good enough to learn on. That is the equivalent amount of lost motion in many of these old pianos. (Or 3 inches of play in the brake pedal!)

That's why some teachers interview all inquiries and offer the extremely talented students partial or full scholarships! That makes good business sense, too!

+1,000!

Another aspect to consider when setting rates is to be aware of the psychology of price. It is human nature to believe that higher priced items are better quality. When we go to a store to purchase a bottle of wine, some will not pay attention to any of the bottles of wine under $5, because they assume it's not as good as the wine that is $10 a bottle. I have heard that in wine tasting tests, people think that the wine with the highest price tag is better tasting and that the wine with the low price tag tastes worse, even if the price tags are reversed.

At least one popular study shows that people can't tell whether wine is cheap or expensive just by tasting it: Richard Wiseman Study.

This means if your prices are lower than average, many people will perceive that you are a lower quality instructor, whereas if you charge more than average, people will automatically think you must be better than average. Of course if the quality of your teaching is obviously not good, you probably won't get away with charging top-dollar. However, I'm sure that there are medium quality level piano teachers who enjoy a better reputation than some better quality teachers simply based on the price.

A successful Seattle piano teacher gave a presentation last year about the business of running a teaching studio. He claimed that when he raised his fees, started charging tuition by the year, and stopped letting his clients reschedule missed lessons, that his reputation went significantly up, even though he felt like the quality of his teaching had not changed.

So remember that price sends a strong message about the quality of your product. I really like the idea of charging top dollar, but then offering scholarships for special cases, if you feel inspired to do so. That makes way more sense from a business perspective than keeping your rates low to make sure you are affordable to low income folks.

By the same token, if you can manage to have yourself booked way ahead, and have a big waiting line, like I usually am, booked anywhere from a month to 3 months solid, depending on the time of year then when I get a call from a potential new customer, many times, they will say, wow, if you're booked that far in advance you must be good! That sends them a strong signal. Busy, means good. Although, the last 2 weeks don't count. I've been on vacation and having fun chatting with you good people

Some parents (like me!) like structure... the yearly plan that coincides with school semesters, regular homework, and final exams (= recitals) works well for older kids. We (I) also like the teacher to "take the heat" when "talented" kids don't want to practice ...

In my town, the most expensive teachers have fancy credentials and very high expectations for their students... LOts of these kids also have high pressure parents. I'm not a big fan of the pressure but LOVE the results! That said, my kid has a less expensive teacher, lower expectations, lower pressure and is working slowly through the curriculum with side trips into (gasp) popular music... I can almost keep up!

And we have a cheapo Yamaha digital piano for the time being (at least it stays in tune) while I try to figure out what to do with our "ratty" Steinway.

???

I have no idea what that means... <confused>

Originally Posted By: GEB77
We (I) also like the teacher to "take the heat" when "talented" kids don't want to practice ...

???

I have no idea what that means... <confused>

Sorry Gary, it was late... What I meant was, when my daughter doesn't want to practice mommy can say: "I don't make the rules, I just enforce them" or "Mrs. P will be so disappointed if you don't come to your lesson prepared" or "It is just like homework" which puts me in the same boat as my daughter rather than making me the nag.

I'm not quite sure what this and your previous post has to do with a teacher raising their rates.

My apologies for going off topic. I think you should give yourself a raise, especially if you are a great teacher.

Advance apologies for continuing the off topic bit.

I would like to suggest that it is possible that your kid might actually be learning more of substance than the kids under the high-pressure and highly pressured teachers. I'll explain my thinking.

High pressure in a community that does this can be toward external measurable results which the lay public understands: high marks in exams, winning in competitions, pieces that sound impressive, "advancing faster" through grade levels etc. Teachers may be forced to compete against each other for customers along that basis, and show those kinds of results.

To get at musicianship and produce a well rounded pianist, you might want to go slower so you can get at all sides. For example: be skilled at reading music, experiencing different composers and styles, learning to interpret music through understanding and that experience. If the goal is to impress judges with what they like to hear, or to go through every grade level as fast as possible, some things will have to be sacrificed. The thing is that many of those skills are "invisible" and don't show up in a way that will impress the general public.

I know this is off topic but maybe it's important enough to mention. You may have a good thing going for your child and the present teacher.

Boy, is this true in many areas of life! When my kid took kung fu, it was all about getting the next belt ASAP. I recall what a wise old Asian Kung Fu master said during a belt testing (by the way, this guy could do a split at age 65 that made most ballerinas look inflexible!) - said he was trying to avoid the American "fast food way of life". That he was trying to hold on to the "old ways" of enjoying the journey, taking the time to get to a destination, rather than racing towards some end with only half the skills truly acquired. Made an impression on me.
Everything seems to be a race these days..

More thoughts on "giving yourself a raise"...

I was talking earlier about how higher prices increase the public's perception that your product is higher quality. I was thinking more about this today, and also realized there is a flip side to this too: It actually affects our own perception of ourself. What effect will it have on your business if you personally perceive that you are a higher quality instructor? By raising fees toward the upper end of the market, we start to feel a part of that market and I think that can have many benefits in all aspects of running a business.

The added benefit of this is that the other teachers in that end of the Market will also begin to see you as a peer. They will also appreciate your effort to raise the up the profession.

However, there seems to be a little cynic inside of us that tries to tear us down and tell us we are not worth it. It comes up with many reason why we shouldn't charge more for our time. I haven't been able to make that voice go completely away, but I make sure its off to the side and not dominating my brain space. We each also have an internal cheer leader that is encouraging us. We need to tap into that to have the courage to better ourselves professionally.