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#1813157 - 12/27/11 01:59 PM Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed
Benjamin86 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 61
hey folks!
i own a yamaha u1 (actually mc10b1) but it has no silent system. my neighbors got set up about how loud it is. since then i dont feel right when i play piano, i always must think of the angry neighbors.

my dealer said, a silent system costs 2000€. i guess its one of the pianodisk systems.

my question is, is it a good idea to build a silent system in a 20 years old yamaha u1? ive heared that the touch of the keys IN NORMAL ACOUTSTIC MODE is differently (worse) after the system has been installed. is that true? i like this piano much and i dont want to do negative changes to it.

and what about the sound? any experiences with that? i sometimes read i should buy a piano where the silent system is already built in. will this be the better choice?

advice please, thanks

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#1813262 - 12/27/11 05:30 PM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: Benjamin86]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Benjamin,

I would personally never consider a retrofit.

If you have the space for it buying supplmentary a quality digital would be an option for playing at hours that do not suit the neighbours (knowing that each time - in terms of touch - you will also have to adopt when going back and forth from digital to acoustic piano).

If the influence on the touch feel when playing in acoustcic mode on a silent piano is your main concern then I did not find any better system today than Yamaha's factory fitted SG silent system with their 'Quick Escape Mechanism' that automatically sets back the let-off in it's optimal position when switching back to acoustic mode.

schwammerl.

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#1814920 - 12/30/11 12:50 AM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: Benjamin86]
Benjamin86 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 61
thanks schwammerl.

i already own a highclass digital piano, but there is still a huge difference between the digital and the acoustic in terms of touch and sound, just like you described. what i mean is to play on a real acoustic is MUCH more enjoyable than on ANY dp. i tried a new silent yamaha u1 a year ago and i thought it was good, but very pricey. on ebay ive seen a 1980 u1 with original yamaha silent system. how is that possible? i mean in the 80s im not sure if there was silent system technique already or do you think this is a retrofit, too? old piano, new silent system?

heres the link: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-U1-Silent-...=item53eab85fe0

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#1814942 - 12/30/11 02:46 AM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: Benjamin86]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Benjamin,

I found some historical data on the internet saying Yamaha introduced the first silent pianos in 1993.

So I doubt the U1 from 1980 can have an original Yamaha silent system and that it is indeed a retrofit.
Whatever the system it will not be as performant as the new Yamaha systems and as a piano the instrument is 30 years+ of age, i.e. a careful check before buying would be required although the seller, Klavierhalle in Germany, seems to have a good reputaion from what I read.

However I am neighter a Yamaha dealer not a historician.

Should Chris Venables, a dealer forum member, not chime in here, you could always send him a PM (look for ChrisVenables in the member list).

schwammerl.

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#1814974 - 12/30/11 05:40 AM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: Benjamin86]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9174
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Hi Benjamin,

I assume you are in Europe and I do not know about distribution there, but here in the US there are two retrofit systems that work quite well, one by QRS and one by PianoDisc. They will both change the action very slightly when in use because the hammer strike (the actual strike will feel the same to you) happens millimeters sooner (which will feel a tiny bit different to you).

Play a piano with a MagicStar system installed in it and you will see what I am referring to quickly. I doubt that the small change in an upright would bother you, but a pianist who works on the regulation and voicing of their grand piano and likes it "just so" could be disappointed by that.

My 2 cents,
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

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#1815005 - 12/30/11 07:50 AM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: schwammerl]
ChrisVenables Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: Hampshire, England
Originally Posted By: schwammerl
Benjamin,

I found some historical data on the internet saying Yamaha introduced the first silent pianos in 1993.

So I doubt the U1 from 1980 can have an original Yamaha silent system and that it is indeed a retrofit.
Whatever the system it will not be as performant as the new Yamaha systems and as a piano the instrument is 30 years+ of age, i.e. a careful check before buying would be required although the seller, Klavierhalle in Germany, seems to have a good reputaion from what I read................



schwammerl.


Benjamin, Schwammerl gives good advice. I would endorse what he said and I'd recommend all customers to get as much info as they can from the dealer first - if he is reluctant to divulge, then find a dealer who will.

This is a weird one. Your link to the pics of this 1980 U1 show the piano as having at least the Yamaha shank-stopper rail, but the pics don't show the switch box clearly enough to identify that component. Yet, as confirmed by Schwammerl, the first Yamaha Silents in Europe were introduced around 1994 with the MP80. A 110cm piano with no hammer sensor and midi out only, followed later the same year with the MP100, (old U1 type at 121cm) again no hammer sensor and midi out only. In 1995/6 they upgraded these by adding midi in and aux in and aux out. The MP1 came out in 1998/9 based on the freshly designed much improved new U1, was improved again (electronically) in 2002 by the introduction of the MP1Z with new key sensors, shank-stopper rail and a 16MB tone generator. The U1, as a piano, hasn't changed since then, although the even better SG system was introduced into the upright models P, U and YUS series first in 2007/8.

There is a slight compromise to the touch, normally only noticeable when playing very softly or trilling softly, as the set-off (jack escapement) has to be around 6mm from the string whereas it's normally 2-3mm on a non silent model. (Only applies to upright Yamaha models.)

If you liked the new U1SG you tried, but thought it too pricey, why not take a look at the new P121SG? It's based on the new U1 design but with a German soundboard. In my view even better than the new U1 and which would probably only cost you 2,000 Euros more than the 30 year old U1.

Another option (if you don't need midi) is the B3 silent ( also based on the new designed U1, but with a laminated board, but still sounds way better than a 30 year old U1) which I think you could find for around 500 Euros more than the old U1. The B series silent uses the same sensor system and AWM stereo samples, but only one piano sound. The SG has recording, 30MB memory rather than 15MB, 50 demo songs and Midi and aux in and out.

A tip if you're trying the B3 Silent sound sample against the SG - use the same high quality headphones on both pianos, as the B series headphones are tacky.
_________________________
Tech. & Partner: Venables Pianos
Yamaha Piano UK main dealer and Grand Piano Centre
Stocking new Yamaha, Brodmann and Venables & Son

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#1815222 - 12/30/11 01:54 PM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: Benjamin86]
Benjamin86 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 61
ill try the p121 sg, though its still a bit pricy, cause here in germany, its around 8000€. i was looking for a piano around 6000€. a year ago i played the b3, but wasnt impressed with the sound. but ill give it another chance and listen again. will take a look at the kawai k3, too. what i will not do, is buy the old u1 over the internet, cause i have to play it before i buy it. maybe i get the chance to play a retrofit magicstar as well. we´ll see what my dealer has got.


Edited by Benjamin86 (12/30/11 01:54 PM)

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#1815427 - 12/30/11 06:28 PM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: Benjamin86]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
There are other options available but it would entail selling your piano and buying a hybrid. You'd save the difference either sooner or later based on how many times per year you have your present piano tuned. smile
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1815744 - 12/31/11 04:19 AM Re: Yamaha U1 - SIlent system needed [Re: Benjamin86]
ChrisVenables Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 727
Loc: Hampshire, England
Benjamin, I believe Yamaha in Germany are offering a subsidised 'upgrade bonus' scheme, (ends mid to end of January I think) which should give you another 500-600 Euros part exchange.

The K3 is a nice piano too and worth comparing against the P121.
_________________________
Tech. & Partner: Venables Pianos
Yamaha Piano UK main dealer and Grand Piano Centre
Stocking new Yamaha, Brodmann and Venables & Son

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