Here's a test recording of the Nord Piano 88 - OS 1.44, Grand Lady D 5.3.

I did have to tweak it because it didn't have the proper EQ on my headphones so I added lows and mids. These have a significant effect on tone I might add. Listening to the recording, I may have overdone the EQ (too much mids). It sounds different from headphones.

My Romance
http://www.box.com/s/2jc0600qcp5q68hdu75n

I wanted to do a combo recording with a backing track but I couldn't mix it in easily. I need new cables to accomplish that so that'll be a later project.

There's also some slight buzzing. I'm recording direct from NP 88 to Zoom H4. Then I'm monitoring from Zoom headphones.

As far as feel, I felt like I had easy control of dynamics for example between LH and RH (for a DP). The sound had the fullness no matter how hard I play.

Very nice playing.
I am pleasantly surprised by the piano sound you are using.
It reminds me of the tone Keith Jarrett manages to get out of his pianos.
I have been trying to find a digital piano that would come close to that sound and this one seems to get there or close to it.
I can't help wondering if that sound is as good when you play live or out of speakers/amplifiers ?

Thanks for the nice piece of music.

filipi, thanks! I said the same thing in another thread. The tone is like a "Keith Jarrett" tone. So impossible to duplicate on a real piano but easy on the Nord! And it doesn't matter what dynamics I use, it still has that pretty sound all the time.

I hope mine sounds that good !

I would agree with you that the EQ boost needs to be backed off a notch or two. There's a very pleasing overall tone that gets covered up at moments by a boxy-sounding mix midrange emphasis.

Sounds very good. You can really hear the detail in the string and sympathetic resonance. Nord has done such an amazing job capturing those nuances. Are you also using the Long Release feature which I feel does add some to the overall sound, particularly for solo work like this.

As for your playing, very nicely done! I've gone back and forth as to whether I like the Grand Lady Steinway or not, but your mix and playing makes me want to explore it further.

ZF,

From the original post I'd venture a guess it just might be called "My Romance"!

Good sound JW...glad to see you got it going.

The good news is that there's amazing EQ control here. I couldn't believe the amount of tonal variation I got with that mid-sweep thing.

I didn't try to tweak this or try to re-record multiple times. I just plugged this in and played once. So I'm sure I'll get better tone and better playing too as I figure it out.

I have the Grand Lady D and the Bosie loaded. I switch back and forth and I'm gravitating more to the D. But this may also be a function of the EQ tweak. So I reserve the right to change my mind

Yes it's back and forth between these two, isn't it? (Same here.)

Nice recording, jazzwee. As to the EQ: For some purposes the Lady D may even sound interesting if the low mids are taken back somewhat (using gain -3 at 600Hz or so, with some boost in bass and treble). That's what I experimented with recently... wouldn't sound well with the Bösendorfer though; this one can take some midtone boost, to my ears at least.

I seem to be the only person who prefers the Yamaha studio 2 sound. It sounds somehow cleaner and slightly more cutting than the others. I do like the Bosie as well for solo playing.
Anyway here is a demo I did with the Yamaha studio 2 sound on my nord stage 2.


http://soundcloud.com/david-beebee/em-braceable-nord-stage-2mp-3

I like Studio Grand 2 as well. Not instantly impressive perhaps but when you dig down into it there is a real sense of dynamics with it. Personally I'm not fond of Grand Lady D but I don't think I could convincingly explain why. I like the Bosie although it can be a bit nasal in the upper mids but it is one massive piano! With these three pianos there is genuine variety on the Nord Piano.

Beeboss that sounds fantastic. I'm with you. My ears have always preferred the Studio Grand 2 C7 in both recording and live settings. I use the Bright Grand S4 Yamaha for live when I'm really needing to cut through.

What settings did you have on your recording? EQ?

Yes, Beeboss, I'm interested in the EQ setting for C7. It just sounds so bright to me when I listen to it but it sounds really good in that recording. Or maybe it's just your playing. You could probably make an out of tune upright sound good.

Maurus, I'm going to check out your EQ setting too. Looks like that's the thing to tweak here.

I might try a different sample for a band recording I might do later.

In general though, all the samples still sound better to my ears than anything else I've played.

jazzwee - just listened to your recording. I agree the mids need a tweak. Nice playing! You know that this recording is mono don't you? It would sound 1000% better in stereo.

Steve

Totally agree! There's nothing else remotely interesting to me in one package compared to the Nords, particularly the Nord Piano. I wonder when the Nord Piano 2 is coming...

I did a quick listen, but lost interest as soon as I realized it was in mono. Gotta be stereo for us studio freaks!

I would not expect any announcement for this Winter NAMM. So, perhaps a year from now, minimum? More likely, two years. Only the bean counters will know for sure!

Sorry I can't remember what it was, I usually just twiddle the eq until it sounds right and this changes depending on the acoustics and the monitoring. Often I use a small treble cut and a small bass boost. On that occasion it went through a small mixing desk so maybe I twiddled the eq on there as well.

LOL - you guys are hardcore. I don't recall if I left the mono switch on. Maybe. I play mono in a gig so that's my normal setting.

But I definitely fed two channels into the Zoom H4.

Whoa...I just bought this. Give me at least a year...

Test recording #2. Backing Track is iRealB (Iphone App). Sample: Grand Lady D. EQ Mids 600 -10db (less mids than earlier recording). Stereo. Reverb added at NP88.

Inputs of Nord Piano and Iphone fed into Allen & Heath ZED10FX Mixer. All EQ on the mixer left flat.

Stella by Starlight
http://soundcloud.com/jazzwee/stella-by-starlight-nord-piano

Does it stand out in the mix? To my ears, very much so.

I don't know if the mixer alters the tone so here, I might add more lows.

Here's a little different test. I just cut it short so you don't have to hear me play for hours just to get to the point.

I play 3 samples here. I start off with Grand Lady D. When you hear me go back to the top, there will be a pause and then I go into the Bosie sample. Then you will another another pause, then it's Studio 1 sample.

Of course there's no time here to tweak EQ for each sample. Each sample seems to have it's own preference.

Solar 3 Samples
http://soundcloud.com/jazzwee/solar-3-samples-nord-piano-88

Nice playing again. For me the Boesendorfer sounds best here...

jazzwee,

Interesting recordings. Technical things first: I hear lots of noise. The recordings are still mono by the way. The pianos have much more reverb than the backing track which stops it all hanging together and spoils it a bit due to sense of disconnection between piano and the rest of the track.

The main issue for me is the mono thing...the pianos can't breathe in mono. You're doing something wrong somewhere.

Love the playing by the way and really like the fact you're doing this for everyone - we're very grateful so please forgive my nit-picking. The tonal differences between the three pianos on the second (of the two more recent recordings) would have much greater impact on a better quality recording in stereo. Based on this recording though I quite like the Grand Lady actually.

Cheers,

Steve

Steve, on the mono thing. I checked the original 1st recording and it recorded two channels and that's direct from the keyboard. This second set was a bit of a pain and now I've got a zillion wires hanging from the mixer so it's not coming direct from the keyboard now.

I don't have the mono light showing on NP 88. What else could be happening? Are you sure it's still mono? Or is the mixer just altering the tone so you think it's mono?

It could be a cabling thing, no? Or a software setting in your DAW.

When I listen to the L-R difference I get some high-hat and just a ghost of the rest of the backing track. Not the slightest hint of piano.

Great playing.

My favourite sample so far is their latest which was released in June which is a Yamaha Bright Grand, I have the extra large file sample which takes up the majority of my Stage EX memory. Part of me wishes I had held on and got the Nord Piano!

What's the Long Release feature?

Nord's are great and I actually really like the red- makes it stand out a bit!

If the Backing track is coming out stereo then it has to be somewhere in the chain in the mixer or at the NP88. The backing track is mixed in through the mixer.

This is possible. I may not fully understand how this 'new' mixer works (Allen & Heath). It's a bit complex. I may have to pan the channels. I'll figure that out.

Thank you! Actually the word 'bright' turned me off so I didn't download it. I should try it though just to see, but not right now. The last time I did major sample updates, it took a long time to restore. I haven't even figured out how to mix this in stereo.

I'm still not sure what long-release is. I've turned it 'on' but haven't spent the time to investigate the difference.

And none of the people with NP 88 on their sigs have explained either. But they all claim it's good

We all have different tastes, I like bright pianos and prefer it to the Bosie and Grand Lady. I do like the sound of all the Yamaha grands that Nord have. Having said that, they're all superb samples.

No, the backing track isn't stereo either. It's just not quite completely mono. The L-R difference on the backing track is maybe 15dB or so below the mono volume (but with some high-hat bleed through) while the piano track is 30dB or more down from mono.

P.S. By my reckoning something must be creating a mono signal by combining what was orginally separate, the ghost I hear may just be slight imbalance.

Brent, I'm not that sophisticated with this (which is why I'd rather play an acoustic ), but the backing track is fed into the mixer in one input and it has a balance control so I presume that's for stereo.

In contrast, the two channels of the keyboard are fed into two separate inputs on the mixer with separate pans, EQ, effects, etc.

So for the keyboard, it is quite possible that it's being summed. Now the backing track is from an iphone app so I can't tell you if it's generating a Stereo output (it's like a Band in the Box app). If I switched to an Aeborsold backing track, it would be mono for sure because the piano is on the other channel.

Are you panning the separate channels of the NP hard L & R on the A&H mixer ?
If you're not that could explain the mono thing.....

If I'm playing single lines, I do prefer the Grand Lady D. But when playing chords or dense harmonies, the C7 sounds cleaner.

Beeboss's playing sounded great so maybe it's also a matter of tweaks. There's still a lot to figure out here. It's pretty flexible.

That's what I just figured. I didn't know anything about that. First experience with this type of mixer. But since you recommended this mixer, I think you hit the nail on the head.

I'm not panning. I left all the knobs in mid position as it was originally.

The tracks in iRealB may indeed be mono. I have the same app although I've only used it for dinking around playing it through the iPhone speaker itself just playing for fun.

Jazzwee-that sounds like your problem-when going line outs into a mixer on 2 SEPARATE inputs you have to turn the Pan/balance knob on the Left Channel fully to the Left and the Pan/Balance knob on the right channel input fully to the Right to achieve a Stereo output.

If you are using just the Left/Right inputs on a SINGLE stereo line input on the mixer then the Pan/Balance knob will act as a Left/Right Balance knob

Great Day!!

Jack

Yeah that's any mixer...Mackie, Yamaha, even a Berhinger. If you can on the iPhone-take the 1/8 " mini plug from the iPhone output to a cord with TWO RCA jacks (then you'll need two 1/4" adaptors female > male to go into the A&H's inputs ) or if you can find a cord that's 1/8" to two male 1/4" jacks- plug the two outs from the iPhone into separate channels and do the hard pan L & R on those too.

On my old Beringher mixer, there's two 1/4" (L/R) in's per Input so that confused me.

My Iphone is using the two RCA jacks and on the Allen & Heath, there's a separate L/R there so I don't think I have to do anything there other than leave the pan in the middle.

I will try again recording again later

Lol. It was announced 2 years ago and released in May of 2010, so I'd guess it'll be up for a hardware update in a year just didn't know if anyone heard anything on an NP88 2.

Don't worry you'll be good to go for a while!

Well I won't have so much GAS if I don't find a deficiency. I did last with a P155 for several years because I did most of my practice on a grand.

I haven't gigged with this yet so I'm crossing my fingers. I did some recordings of the FP7F last year and the nice "stereo" recordings sounded really good. Then I play at a gig and it sounds like the recording below. You can see why I had to DUMP the FP7F fast.

Tenor Madness (Live with Roland FP7F)
http://soundcloud.com/jazzwee/tenor-madness

When the tone comes out metallic like this, I have to tell you that it impacts on what I play. I just can't get into it. My solo suffers too. That's why it's important to see how it sounds when I'm pounding the keys with a band.

(BTW - I did see your Youtube of Tenor Madness too. Nice job but too short of a solo ).

Yes well this is what I find too - the SN sounds transition into this horrible metallic sound at unnaturally low velocities. You play soft and the piano is totally lost, you play hard in order to be heard and it turns out like this.

People say Yamahas are bright and in general they probably are on the bright side, but they just don't ever sound like this in a mix - they cut through without sounding bad.

I think the Nord will please you a lot more than FP-7F for what you want.

Steve

But you hear that right? I placed an order for the Nord, blind, a few days after hearing that recording. At that point, I didn't even care how good the Nord was, just as long as it was non-metallic.

In a nice quiet setting doing a recording at home, I don't end up with the metallic sound and everything is hunky dory. So as a warning to everyone, THESE RECORDINGS NEED TO BE TAKEN WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

Now having said that, I've tried to simulate a band at my house by playing pretty loudly so I probably have more faith in the Nord recordings.

Just did a test run and looks like the recording is stereo now. The waveforms are different for each channel. So I'll do some solo piano stuff later on on different samples.

OK this is in Stereo. Solo piano excerpts. There are four separate samples here (with space between each).

Order of Samples:
1. Studio 2 C7
2. Grand Lady D
3. Bosendorfer Imperial
4. Studio 1 C7

Solo Piano Excerpts
http://soundcloud.com/jazzwee/stella-excerpts-solo-piano

I just loaded the Studio 2 C7 tonight. I didn't have it there before. I have to say that in the medical register, it sounded the best to me. However it loses body in the upper register compared to the Grand Lady D or the Bosie. So depending on the circumstances, my favorites will be the Studio 2 and Grand Lady D.

Now as before, I left the EQ constant. With individual EQ tweaking, all the samples are actually good. If I forgot what I picked as a sample, I could get lost in it. (I did and then later realized I was on the Bosie).

They all sound good here just playing into the recorder, Nords always do. My preference here are the Yamaha studio 2 and Bosie.

You might wanna turn your levels down a bit, you were clipping pretty noticeable in places on the Grand lady d and Studio 2 recording.

With the group I find the Bright Yamaha to work the best for me live.

I'm downloading the Bright Yamaha sample and giving that a try. I think the useless one of the bunch for me is Studio 1. I can't find anything to like in that one.

Sorry about the clipping. But at least it's in stereo now.

Thanks Jazzwee for the compliments on the Tenor Madness...and yeah my solo was a hit short!

The Long Release to my ears allows for the note to ring out a little longer when struck to give a more natural decay and more acoustic like behavior. It's a subtle difference but one I could hear.

Jazzwee just listened to your recordings. I agree with Dave. The Studio 2 and Bosie sound quite good. I have to say give the Studio one some time. It took my ears a good 6 mos to warm up to the tone if the Studio 1, but it has its use for sure.

By the way, what are you using to record? I'm looking at buying an Apogee Duet but what software are you using?

Zachary, I'm using a Zoom H4 as a recorder. I have it plugged into the mixer. Really good recorder.

You don't find Studio 2 thin in the upper registers? That's the only issue I have with it. In my recording I didn't use the upper registers much.

I'm looking forward to listening to the Bright Yamaha. The word 'Bright' turned me off but the sample file name indicates S4. So if this is a Yamaha S4, I'm going to like it.

Yeah I just find the Studio Grand 2 so usable across various genres of music. As for the Bright Grand, notice how different the bass register is (an S4 is only 6'3"). Compare that with the bass of the Grand Lady D and Bosebdorfer Imperial!

Well I only have a 5'11 Steinway O at home Seems good enough. LOL.

For jazz combo playing though I'm staying away from the bass player's domain anyway. But in the real world, I love the sound of a real S6 and S4. And actually, I would call it the opposite of 'bright'. So it does make me wonder if they ruined a perfectly sounding S piano.

Haven't loaded it yet. Will do so in a moment and the mystery will be answered.

Someone in another thread made a comment about my playing lacking dynamic range. I play jazz so don't look at me as a source for testing this with classical music. Not my deal. I bought this specifically to stand out in a band mix.

And you can all criticize my playing all you want. Doesn't concern me.

But for a more delicate version, Beeboss did post this earlier in this thread.



A year ago, I had a similar samples thread on the FP7F and that's probably a more apples to apples comparison.

jazzwee, as you know that criticism on the other thread was motivated by a rather single-minded desire to defend the V-Piano and was very unfair in the circumstances. You are right to not be concerned about this criticism!

I quite enjoy your playing jazzwee. I'm waiting to see what you think of the Bright Grand S4. I played it last night and the sample itself sounds much more even throughout the entire register. You can tell the larger newer samples vs the original samples. I think you'll find that S4 very useful in a band setting. I really like that sound.

Zachary, I did load the Bright Grand and though tonally I can see why it would stick out in a mix, I was just a little disappointed because it didn't sound like a real S4. Or if it is, it's an S4 with hardened hammers. One of the things I liked about the S4 (I did consider buying one) was the tone.

So getting beyond that, I just looked at it as the bright grand sample that it is. It's very clean sounding. I actually think it would great for someone playing with a dense harmonic style like Dave Ferris.

For single lines I still like the Grand Lady D and the Studio 2. The Bosie's right there after that.

I have to give credit for Dave Ferris' experience so I have Bright Grand on the board in case my expectations at home don't match when I'm playing at a gig with bad acoustics. So far everything Dave has said has been spot on.

And thanks for what you and EssBrace said. I appreciate it.

Wow, that's great! Both musically and sonically. In fact when listening to Nord piano demos in their website, I like the Studio Grand 2 most. What kind of reverb have you used in that recording, is this all coming from the Nord Piano?

Thanks for the demo. I'm continually impressed that the Nord pianos sound like acoustic pianos, as opposed to digital pianos.

Nice! I don't know if it's me or if I'm hearing something in the stereo image that is the crossfade to the loops, particularly in the midrange notes? And around 3:50 there is some kind of low frequency "rumbling" noise accompanying the notes that seems out of place.

I do wish Nord (and everyone else) would dispense with looping already. However much I want to, it seems I'm incapable of letting my guard down with a looped sample set and just enjoying the overall sound and the playing.

I think what's spoiling it for you is not the looped sound itself but the fact you have discovered the sound from a Nord Piano is looped by the means of artificially crafted tests and consequent analysis with software tools Nothing personal against you but I am glad I am not in your position. It would be interesting though to compare this particular piece played by this wonderful pianist and musician David Beebee on Nord Piano and on Roland SN piano.

Thanks CyberGene for your kind words. Unfortunately I don't have a roland piano at my disposal to do the comparison but I did record the same piece (with some slightly different different impro sections) on my real piano to see what the difference was. I like the Nord a lot but when I hear the recordings A/B I can hear that it is quite different from a real grand.

nord version ...
http://soundcloud.com/david-beebee/em-braceable-nord-stage-2mp-3

real piano (yamaha C5) ...
http://soundcloud.com/david-beebee/embraceable-you-david-beebee-1

There is some slight phasing of the sound which doesn't sound particular realistic but I quite like it. The rumbling noise you hear I think is the pedal noise which is such a novelty on a dp for me that I tend to overuse it a bit. I love the way that I can hear the imaginary dampers leaving the imaginary strings as well.

David, I've already listened to all your recordings on Soundcloud I loved them all and of course a real piano will always be the real thing. Anyway, what you've achieved as a sound with the Nord Piano really impressed me. Is everything straight from the Nord Piano? I am especially interested in the reverb since it sounds very realistic. I'll be more than happy if you can post the settings you've used on your Nord and also the sound chain and post processing if any Not that I have a NP, but who knows

Beeboss that sounds amazing. I know it's the Studio 2 Grand C7, but EQ and reverb settings do you have in that recording? So happy I've got a Nord Piano! Best darn sounding DP!

The output of the nord goes into the mixer (mackie) and then into the computer (via motu ultralite). I can't hear any real change in the tone with these. I record in Logic and it is quite possible that I added a touch of reverb and eq there (or eq from the mixer) over that on the nord, but I can't remember. Usually I turn the treble down a bit on the nord (becasue I really hate the high frequencies of dp's) and probably a bit of bass boost. I am sure that most of the reverb comes from the nord. Sorry I can't be more precise.

Thank you for that information and keep on with the great music

If beeboss could provide a MIDI file I'd render it on our NX.


Interesting around 1:10 where the dampers buzz against the strings. Damper sounds in general lend realism, and the sympathetic resonance is very nice. To my unintentionally picky ears the low notes aren't holding the piece hostage by threatening at any point to start looping. Nothing like the real thing I guess.

Sorry I didn't record the midi, only the audio.

OK here's a live recording now with me using the Nord Piano 88. This is 'Studio Grand 2'. There maybe too much reverb. But the room was so frustratingly dry and the recorder (Zoom H4) was pretty close to the speaker. Also note that although the recorder records in Stereo, the NP was using Mono.


Nord Piano 88 Live Band Excerpt of 'Solar' (Jazz)



I cut out multiple horn sections at the beginning of the recording and leave only most of the piano portion of the tune.

For anyone else curious, the speaker is an EV ZXA1 on a stand.

Sounds good ! Really clear. Maybe just a tad too much verb for me but nothing extreme. Yeah they work well live. Like I mentioned somewhere else , I've probably used mine on close to 20 gigs since Nov. and on at least 15 of those gigs, someone has commented on the piano sound.

I got a lot of that with the CP5 though too...I know a lot of it is the speakers. But basically they both are good. It's just one's heavy and the other is light....

Good job JW.

Thanks Dave. I hope I didn't embarass myself among the better jazz players here...

Now here's another recording in the exact same place. This occurred right before the band started. This is our volunteer solo pianist who plays before the band. I was using him as a test so I was tweaking the sound while he played. So the settings are exactly the same (Studio Grand 2). It does sound a little over-verby close up but from the back of the large room, the reverb sounded realistic.

Solo Piano Live
http://www.box.com/s/qtmftatbduspbaqh6teu

.

I have to tell you that I shocked many people with the red keyboard.

I had to explain that that was part of being 'uber cool'...not sure they believed me. LOL.

One actually said -- "Did you paint your keyboard red?". They remember the black one (FP7F).

That's a SINGLE EV ZXA1, Dave -- Mono

No comment? It sounded fine to me as long as I switched the board to Mono mode.

I truly was debating if I wanted to carry an extra speaker. As it is, I've got to make 2 dolly runs...(I have to carry the mic, mic stands, vocalist PA (2 speakers), yada, yada...).

.

BTW - my master volume on the NP88 never got past 12 o'clock position. So lots of reserve power on the single EV ZXA1.

Thanks for all the equipment tips Dave. You've simplified my transition to gigging here...

>>As it is, I've got to make 2 dolly runs...
I carry
- 1 Kawai Mp6
- 2 JBL 12" speakers
- Speaker stands
- a mixer
- Suitcase with mics, cards, books, etc...
- Keyboard table stand
- One box with lots of cables
- Power conditioner
- Adjustable stool

1 trip, solo.

So additional items for me are Singer's PA, and Mic stands in a bag. That's enough to make it unstable, particularly the mic stands.