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#1816500 - 01/01/12 03:26 PM Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m
shokz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 457
Loc: Sheffield, England
Is there a large difference between them? Lets say I hooked up a DP I brought, for example rd700, would the hs50m be good enough, or is the hs80m worth the extra cash? I can get a pair of hs50m for 250 pounds or a pair of hs80m for 400 pounds. Anyone who can shed some light? Will appreciate very much

And also another question, I saw somebody mentioning you would need some sort of sound card to connect your piano to your pc, can you tell me a bit about this? Is an m audio fast track pro enough? Or will I need some other equipment, Cheers
_________________________
Piano; YDP161

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#1816701 - 01/01/12 09:12 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
External interfaces can be convenient. They have better digital-to-audio conversion, better headphone amps, better drivers, and nice analog controls. The fast track pro you mentioned is a perfect example. Others are presonus audiobox usb and focusrite 2i2. The behringer uca202 works in a pinch (very good drivers) but has fewer features (for example, only unbalanced in/out).

If you are not planning on getting a subwoofer, the 8 inch monitor will be much better. My recommendation to anyone using studio monitors is to a get a subwoofer, though. Even 8-inch monitors are quite sad on the low end and can make the playing experience less satisfying. Don't believe it when monitors say they reproduce sounds well down to 50 hz or whatever they have listed. Your ears will disagree.

In another thread, bfb, who owns both the Hs80s and the KRK RP8 monitors and uses them with his piano said the Yamahas probably have greater accuracy (i.e., for mixing), but the KRK's sound nicer with the piano. They are around the same price so you might consider looking that direction. And if you do get a subwoofer, you can save money and probably increase quality by getting the smaller speakers. Some 8-inch woofers have a hard time with mids.

If I was buying a studio monitor right now I'd get a pair of KRK rp6 and then the KRK 10s.

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#1816709 - 01/01/12 09:25 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: gvfarns]
shokz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 457
Loc: Sheffield, England
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
External interfaces can be convenient. They have better digital-to-audio conversion, better headphone amps, better drivers, and nice analog controls. The fast track pro you mentioned is a perfect example. Others are presonus audiobox usb and focusrite 2i2. The behringer uca202 works in a pinch (very good drivers) but has fewer features (for example, only unbalanced in/out).

If you are not planning on getting a subwoofer, the 8 inch monitor will be much better. My recommendation to anyone using studio monitors is to a get a subwoofer, though. Even 8-inch monitors are quite sad on the low end and can make the playing experience less satisfying. Don't believe it when monitors say they reproduce sounds well down to 50 hz or whatever they have listed. Your ears will disagree.

In another thread, bfb, who owns both the Hs80s and the KRK RP8 monitors and uses them with his piano said the Yamahas probably have greater accuracy (i.e., for mixing), but the KRK's sound nicer with the piano. They are around the same price so you might consider looking that direction. And if you do get a subwoofer, you can save money and probably increase quality by getting the smaller speakers. Some 8-inch woofers have a hard time with mids.

If I was buying a studio monitor right now I'd get a pair of KRK rp6 and then the KRK 10s.


thanks gv, I was waiting for someone to reply smile I normally tend to go for things behind a good company name, I have not heard of KRK before, but I;ll make sure to check them out. Is a subwoofer really really necessary gv for a good experience playing, is it worth the extra cash? thank you
_________________________
Piano; YDP161

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#1816710 - 01/01/12 09:32 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Krk is pretty solid. The Rokit Powered line is their lower end product, but they are, in fact, the most popular studio monitors in the world in terms of number sold. Yamaha's a great name and they made that classic old style studio monitor that sounds horrible but makes great mixes. Theirs are better for mixing than the KRK, but we aren't really mixing here. (at least, I'm not)

I think the fact that the KRK's are not made of kevlar actually makes them sound less harsh than other monitors (a common problem). Their higher end stuff is kevlar, and probably has many characteristics that are superior, but according to their marketing, it takes a lot of work to make kevlar not harsh. That's just marketing, though, so take it for what it's worth.

I had the krk rp8's and they were only ok by themselves. I wasn't happy with them but at first I wasn't sure why. I decided to try the woofer and liked them much better after that. So in my opinion, yes, the woofer is very helpful, though it is very expensive also. If you are short on cash, you can just get the monitors and then upgrade later when/if you feel it's worth it and you have the moolah.

It will work ok with no sub, and it will even sound ok. Just not as great and complete as it will with the sub, if that makes sense.


Edited by gvfarns (01/01/12 09:35 PM)

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#1816720 - 01/01/12 09:42 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: gvfarns]
shokz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 457
Loc: Sheffield, England
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Krk is pretty solid. The Rokit Powered line is their lower end product, but they are, in fact, the most popular studio monitors in the world in terms of number sold. Yamaha's a great name and they made that classic old style studio monitor that sounds horrible but makes great mixes. Theirs are better for mixing than the KRK, but we aren't really mixing here. (at least, I'm not)

I think the fact that the KRK's are not made of kevlar actually makes them sound less harsh than other monitors (a common problem). Their higher end stuff is kevlar, and probably has many characteristics that are superior, but according to their marketing, it takes a lot of work to make kevlar not harsh. That's just marketing, though, so take it for what it's worth.

I had the krk rp8's and they were only ok by themselves. I wasn't happy with them but at first I wasn't sure why. I decided to try the woofer and liked them much better after that. So in my opinion, yes, the woofer is very helpful, though it is very expensive also. If you are short on cash, you can just get the monitors and then upgrade later when/if you feel it's worth it and you have the moolah.

It will work ok with no sub, and it will even sound ok. Just not as great and complete as it will with the sub, if that makes sense.


I will only have so much money. First thing I will get will be some headphones, then studio monitors. And If I feel an absence of something down the line I may purchase a subwoofer (I just checked the prices for them now, and my word aren't they expensive). It costs a fair bit for a piano set up.

I know what you mean, if it sounds good enough to listen to, I will keep it that way, and if the studio monitors are clearly not enough then I shall take it from there.

(I wish a good DP didn't cost so much, would make life so much easier. I still can't believe how expensive the good ones are. It will be the most expensive thing I have ever purchased in my life :O)
_________________________
Piano; YDP161

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#1816723 - 01/01/12 09:44 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
It sound to me like you have a good plan. My advice is to start with the RP6's. They don't have quite as much bass but they are better in the mids and they are cheaper. And they aren't horrible in the bass.

It is a bum deal that DP's cost so much to really get right. But luckily it can be done a bit at a time. At the moment I have NO speakers for my piano. Just headphones. Don't be embarrassed to do the same if you don't urgently need speakers, haven't decided which ones are really right, or don't have the cash to throw around.


Edited by gvfarns (01/01/12 09:45 PM)

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#1816725 - 01/01/12 09:49 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: gvfarns]
shokz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 457
Loc: Sheffield, England
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
It sound to me like you have a good plan. My advice is to start with the RP6's. They don't have quite as much bass but they are better in the mids and they are cheaper. And they aren't horrible in the bass.

It is a bum deal that DP's cost so much to really get right. But luckily it can be done a bit at a time. At the moment I have NO speakers for my piano. Just headphones. Don't be embarrassed to do the same if you don't urgently need speakers, haven't decided which ones are really right, or don't have the cash to throw around.


I'll keep that model in mind. Yeah, its one of those things that has to be done bit by bit, with everything costing so much, you would have to be pretty rich to afford it all in one transaction. Indeed, I will be prioritizing, DP and headphones in on transaction, and then start saving up for some monitors. Cheers Gv
_________________________
Piano; YDP161

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#1816756 - 01/01/12 11:00 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: shokz
Is there a large difference between them?


Well there is 3 inches difference .... some people think a extra 3 inches makes the world of difference ;-)
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1816766 - 01/01/12 11:20 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Innuendo aside, remember that a 5 inch woofer has 78 inches of surface while an 8 inch has 201. Significantly more than twice the area.

Having said that, you won't care which you have once you get a sub. smile

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#1816792 - 01/02/12 12:13 AM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3818
Loc: North Carolina
Your figures are doubled.
Rather than 78 sq.in. and 201 sq.in. ... it should be 39 sq.in. and 100 sq.in.

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#1816793 - 01/02/12 12:15 AM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Oops. Stupid brain!

Actually they were quadrupled.

pi*d^2 = pi*(2r)^2 = 4*pi*r^2

19.6 and 50.26 square inches. D'oh!


Edited by gvfarns (01/02/12 12:21 AM)

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#1816814 - 01/02/12 01:08 AM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
GEEKS !!!!
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1816923 - 01/02/12 08:42 AM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: gvfarns]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: gvfarns
Krk is pretty solid. The Rokit Powered line is their lower end product, but they are, in fact, the most popular studio monitors in the world in terms of number sold. Yamaha's a great name and they made that classic old style studio monitor that sounds horrible but makes great mixes. Theirs are better for mixing than the KRK, but we aren't really mixing here. (at least, I'm not)

I think the fact that the KRK's are not made of kevlar actually makes them sound less harsh than other monitors (a common problem). Their higher end stuff is kevlar, and probably has many characteristics that are superior, but according to their marketing, it takes a lot of work to make kevlar not harsh. That's just marketing, though, so take it for what it's worth.

I had the krk rp8's and they were only ok by themselves. I wasn't happy with them but at first I wasn't sure why. I decided to try the woofer and liked them much better after that. So in my opinion, yes, the woofer is very helpful, though it is very expensive also. If you are short on cash, you can just get the monitors and then upgrade later when/if you feel it's worth it and you have the moolah.

It will work ok with no sub, and it will even sound ok. Just not as great and complete as it will with the sub, if that makes sense.


gvfarns- if i added a subwoofer to my mix- what would be the best way to set it up. get a mixer? i'm using all 4 lineouts right now on the vpiano to my speakers, so i guess if i added a 5th component, i would need to run them into a mixer? if i did that, would i just run two lineouts from the v into the mixer and then run into each speaker? any simpler way?.... what would be a good price point for a mixer for that?

(EDIT: i see i exceeded my allotment for questions in any one post here. isn't that annoying- like having a 4 year old for the day...)


Edited by bfb (01/02/12 08:44 AM)
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; Alicia's Keys; Garritan Steinway; Galaxy Pianos; The Grand 3

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#1816977 - 01/02/12 10:55 AM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'm not actually sure what the best way to run it with two sets of speakers is. Possibly need a mixer to really get the results you want.

When I used it, I ran my XLR cables straight from my piano into the sub, then from the sub into each of the monitors. The 10s has both balanced and unbalanced ins/outs. Perhaps it outputs to both outs even with only one input. Then you could plug the balanced out into one set of speakers and the unbalanced into another. Can't promise it would work but it seems likely.

Actually since you won't use both sets of monitors at the same time, just a little box that switches from one to the other would work, or an XLR splitter cable maybe. Problem is that you can calibrate your subwoofer for one set of monitors, but I don't know how you could calibrate it for both at the same time. I guess you could adjust the gain on both sets of monitors until they are equally loud. That would work.


Edited by gvfarns (01/02/12 10:56 AM)

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#1816997 - 01/02/12 11:28 AM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323
I have been very happy with my HS80M speakers I got just a few weeks ago. I don't get listening fatigue with them like I have gotten with other speakers. I like them better than some Focal Twin6 Be speakers that I demoed for a month that were four times the cost - each. Accurate, good bass, good mids. They sound good using "all" instruments: Piano, organ, strings, etc.

Only "your ear" knows the truth.

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#1817001 - 01/02/12 11:39 AM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
HwyStar, did you also demo the hs50m while you were at it? Just in case you might be able to comment on the OP's question.

As a side note, in English quotation marks are never used to intensify or draw attention to a word or phrase. If anything they are used to do the opposite (being a possible way to express sarcasm or skepticism). Use asterisks if you prefer not to bold or use italics. I know correcting grammar on the internet is lame but this one really grates on me. Almost as bad as using all caps.


Edited by gvfarns (01/02/12 12:00 PM)

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#1817015 - 01/02/12 12:23 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323
gvfarns: You want to know what really bugs me? When people are to "lazy" to type out original poster. Which one is worse yours or mine? You be the judge. I am sure you will be polite enough to respond. I don't see OP anywhere except in the Urban Dictionary. Thanks for your comments. I will learn my lesson.

Yes, I did demo the HS50M speakers and I thought they were lacking in the bass range.

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#1817019 - 01/02/12 12:37 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
Write how you want, I guess. One is a very heinous and ugly grammatical error no English speaker should ever make and the other is a common internet acronym everyone who uses forums knows. However, correcting people's grammar is not particularly good internet etiquette, so I don't particularly blame you for getting upset.

To the OP, HwyStar makes a good point about using your ears. If you live in a place where you can get to a store with many types of monitors, you could be well served by taking a CD of yourself playing and giving it a listen. You might even get a chance to try with and without a sub. Unfortunately I don't live close to such a store but hopefully you are luckier than I am.

My gut tells me that two 50m's and a sub would perform better than two 80m's alone, but I haven't ever listened to Yamaha monitors, so take it for what it's worth. I've heard people say that KRK's tend to be more bass heavy/strong than comparable studio monitors. If that's true, then the sub may be even more warranted in the Yamaha case.


Edited by gvfarns (01/02/12 12:56 PM)

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#1817027 - 01/02/12 12:52 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323
Thanks for understanding GV! I am not feeling well today and I have gone off topic. Sorry for the abrupt response.

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#1817031 - 01/02/12 12:56 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
gvfarns Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 3483
Loc: Pennsylvania
And I'm sorry for being a grammar snob. Forums are so the wrong place for that.

I am indeed interested in these Yamahas, though. I wish I could demo a set myself without having it shipped to me and having to ship it back!

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#1817032 - 01/02/12 12:56 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: shokz]
HwyStar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 323
I agree that both speaker systems could benefit from having a sub attached. I have an extra sub laying around but with the HS80M speakers I have not noticed that I need it in my system. The bass is sufficient enough for my needs.

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#1817036 - 01/02/12 01:00 PM Re: Yamaha hs50m vs hs80m [Re: HwyStar]
verbo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/11
Posts: 37
Loc: Athens, Greece
Thank you both HwyStar and gvfarns for the very interesting debate. As a new RD700NX owner, I am currently on the look for future setup upgrades (as purchasing monitors), and I have been closely following your discussions. HS80M seem quite promising, without of course, having tested it with an extra sub.
_________________________
George

Current equipment: Roland XP30 | Korg PA800 | Roland RD700NX | KRK RP6-G2
Future upgrade: KRK 10s subwoofer | Behringer Xenyx 1222 FX (?)

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