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#1816674 - 01/01/12 08:16 PM
Sex matching between child and teacher?
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Full Member
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
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And no, I don't mean 'that' kind of sex.
Recently, I had a woman call me to inquire about lessons for her daughter. I took it that the daughter was young, probably about 6 or 7. The woman said her daughter mentioned she would prefer a female teacher. So... Why was she calling me in the first place I wondered...but of course I didn't voice that sentiment directly to her.
This struck me as sort of odd. I understand that many little girls enjoy brushing the manes of little toy ponies and playing dress up at their miniature tea parties, but I just feel there is something a bit wrong with this scenario.
I feel like, in a way, I was being discriminated against because of my sex. I also started to wonder if agreeing to her daughters request would only continue to prevent her from developing relationships with males or if it probably doesn't matter and I was just overly annoyed at the whole thing.
I get the feeling that new parents into my studio are always more cautious about leaving their children with me since I am a male. As if the first thing I am going to do is molest them or something.
Do other male teachers here get the same feelings with new parents and do you feel like if you were a female teacher, you might get even 10% more inquiries?
As for me, I have a majority of female students. I adore them all greatly and they adore me - I have never felt that my sex has in any way made a female students experience less than what it would be if they were studying with a female.
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#1816835 - 01/02/12 01:38 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 641
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I think you're making too much of this. Next week you'll get a call from a mother who wants her son to study with a male teacher. The reason the mother still called you is she wanted to give you an opportunity to have a sex-change operation. Seems fair to me. 
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#1816865 - 01/02/12 03:03 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Candywoman]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
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The reason the mother still called you is she wanted to give you an opportunity to have a sex-change operation. Seems fair to me. LOLOL!!!
_________________________
Piano Teacher
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#1816919 - 01/02/12 08:29 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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500 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 609
Loc: South Carolina
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That scenario doesn't bother me...I've experienced young girls leaving the studio for a female teacher after a month or two of lessons, that doesn't bother me either.
However, I've had young adult women leave for a female teacher because of possessive, jealous boyfriends/husbands. That's creepy.
_________________________
Piano performance and instruction (former college music professor).
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#1816936 - 01/02/12 09:30 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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Full Member
Registered: 01/17/11
Posts: 101
Loc: Chicago
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"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps?
_________________________
Painter55 (Bobby in Chicago) Yamaha U3
Working on: *Clementi 36/1 *Haydn Hob XVI/1 *Bach BWV 846
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#1816943 - 01/02/12 09:41 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6124
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
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I feel like, in a way, I was being discriminated against because of my sex. I also started to wonder if agreeing to her daughters request would only continue to prevent her from developing relationships with males or if it probably doesn't matter and I was just overly annoyed at the whole thing.
I get the feeling that new parents into my studio are always more cautious about leaving their children with me since I am a male. As if the first thing I am going to do is molest them or something.
Do other male teachers here get the same feelings with new parents and do you feel like if you were a female teacher, you might get even 10% more inquiries? Dustin, my student break-down is roughly 50/50, but it seems that most of my female colleagues (locally) have a majority of girls. Some of it can be attributed to parents looking for a masculine role model for their sons. For the most part, I suspect that parents who are uncomfortable with male teachers for their daughters never contact me. Yes, that's discrimination, but contrary to the PC crowd, I feel it's the parents primary job to make these assessments about their students and have no heart-burn about it. It's reality. But your story does remind me of a really strange interview I had quite a few years ago. A young lady, probably middle school age, came for an interview. About 15 minutes into the trial lesson, she turned on the faucet, was shaking, etc., etc. The parents were at a loss, as was I, as I've never, ever seen anything like this. Naturally, I suggested she might feel more comfortable with a female teacher, which is what eventually happened. Fast forward 4 or 5 years. I was at a birthday party for one of my young students. Low and behold, entire family of this "strange" student was at same party. There was no sign that they recognized me at all, but I noticed something rather strange. The daughter hung on the dad, as if their relationship was well past the father-daughter relationship, if you catch my drift. The world is full of pratfalls, and for one, this is one student I am more than happy to have avoided!
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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#1816945 - 01/02/12 09:42 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: painter55]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6124
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
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"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps? FWIW, my grammar teacher used to drill us that gender is a grammatical term, sex is a biological distinction.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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#1816965 - 01/02/12 10:28 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
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I get the feeling that new parents into my studio are always more cautious about leaving their children with me since I am a male. As if the first thing I am going to do is molest them or something.
Personally, I think this attitude stinks. You could try pointing out that (according to the US Justice Bureau) children are 30 times more likely to be killed or injured by a relative than by a stranger, and that 50-odd percent of all child deaths and injuries are caused by their own parents. But I don't suppose it will help. Many parents are no longer able to make rational decisions about their children's safety.
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#1816978 - 01/02/12 11:04 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: kevinb]
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9000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 9207
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
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I get the feeling that new parents into my studio are always more cautious about leaving their children with me since I am a male. As if the first thing I am going to do is molest them or something.
Personally, I think this attitude stinks. You could try pointing out that (according to the US Justice Bureau) children are 30 times more likely to be killed or injured by a relative than by a stranger, and that 50-odd percent of all child deaths and injuries are caused by their own parents. But I don't suppose it will help. Many parents are no longer able to make rational decisions about their children's safety. Most people misperceive risk, period. It's not a new phenomenon.
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#1817055 - 01/02/12 01:30 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: John v.d.Brook]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Finland
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"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps? FWIW, my grammar teacher used to drill us that gender is a grammatical term, sex is a biological distinction. FWIW, "gender" is often used to describe social roles, reserving "sex" for the biological attributes.
_________________________
Yamaha Arius YDP-161
Bach Prelude in C (BWV 846) Petzold Minuet in G minor (BWV Anh 115) Beethoven Moonlight Sonata, first movement Alfred's Adult Piano Level 1
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#1817110 - 01/02/12 02:55 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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Full Member
Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 233
Loc: Michigan
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My mother would not leave me alone with anyone when I was a child...let alone a grown man. You are reading WAY too deeply into this. I think parents and children have a right to decide what is comfortable for them. I also doubt that turning you down for piano lessons means that the mother is trying to prevent her daughter from building male relationships.
I personally, still feel more comfortable around women in certain situations than I do men. If I ever had a male instructor growing up and whatever I was doing required touching or being close...my mother was there, making sure I was safe. Im sure its nothing against you...but society is really messed up right now.
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#1817174 - 01/02/12 04:25 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Piano*Dad]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
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Most people misperceive risk, period. It's not a new phenomenon.
You're rigt of course. I used to bicycle across central London to work every day, and then walk up ten flights of stairs rather than the elevator, because I was scared the cable would break and I'd plunge to my doom.  But this abject, quivering fearfulness for our children does seem to me to be a relatively new phenomenon -- I don't recall things being this screwed up thirty years ago, or even twenty.
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#1817185 - 01/02/12 04:37 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: thurisaz]
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6000 Post Club Member
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 6124
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
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"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps? FWIW, my grammar teacher used to drill us that gender is a grammatical term, sex is a biological distinction. FWIW, "gender" is often used (sic) to describe social roles, reserving "sex" for the biological attributes. More aptly, misused! Just as half the American population cannot use I and me correctly. I'm hanging up my grammar patrol badge now.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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#1817188 - 01/02/12 04:40 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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Full Member
Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 78
Loc: California, USA
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Sometimes, it's not because of fear that you'll molest the child. Sometimes, a little girl just relates better to a female grown-up and a little boy just relates better to a male grown-up. Or maybe the other way around.
_________________________
Mom of Two Beginners
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#1817195 - 01/02/12 04:48 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: thurisaz]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
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"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps? FWIW, my grammar teacher used to drill us that gender is a grammatical term, sex is a biological distinction. FWIW, "gender" is often used to describe social roles, reserving "sex" for the biological attributes. Battle of the *genders*...  The *gender* revolution.  There is a shift going on, and people who are presently attempting to be very PC are redefining words. 
_________________________
Piano Teacher
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#1817218 - 01/02/12 05:17 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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Registered: 08/14/11
Posts: 166
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When I was in elementary school, all the school teachers were women, with the exception of the gym teacher. My first male teacher was in 8th grade. I've only finished college recently, so this may still be the case if other schools are like this. Personally, I think it is a flaw if students only have women teachers, as male role models are very important too.
On the other hand, I can imagine that parents of a 14 or 15 year old boy may have some reservations about a female teacher (or more specifically the student) if she's in her 20's or 30's. In fact, if the wife is very over-protective, she may not let the husband meet the teacher without supervision. If I were a parent, I may prefer that the kid have a teacher of the opposite gender, just so they get a little variety away from their peer group; but even if that was a consideration it would be of minimal importance.
Gender is very important when finding a dance teacher, but that's a different issue.
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#1817219 - 01/02/12 05:18 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: John v.d.Brook]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
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"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps? FWIW, my grammar teacher used to drill us that gender is a grammatical term, sex is a biological distinction. John, you might be interested in this: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/genderMerriam Webster used to have extensive usage notes online, but the whole site has been horribly dumbed-down. Many of these grammatical questions are as thorny many of the musical details we talk about in this forum. To be on the safe side in 2012, I would stick with "gender" in any situation where "sex" is not the only choice.  Back to student-teacher "matching"...  I think there is a general trade-off. I'm sure that some little girls want a woman teacher, period, but I also think a lot of the young guys like the idea of studying with a man. Of course, there are MANY exceptions!
_________________________
Piano Teacher
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#1817242 - 01/02/12 05:42 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Maxtor]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 3586
Loc: Orange County, CA
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When I was in elementary school, all the school teachers were women, with the exception of the gym teacher. My first male teacher was in 8th grade. I've only finished college recently, so this may still be the case if other schools are like this. You're observing a relatively recent phenomenon. Before the 1980's, the majority of school teachers were male. I learned that fact from my "History of Education" class in college.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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#1817342 - 01/02/12 07:32 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: AZNpiano]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5221
Loc: Down Under
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You're observing a relatively recent phenomenon. Before the 1980's, the majority of school teachers were male. I learned that fact from my "History of Education" class in college. Wow, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case where I am (I was teaching in the 70s/80s)! It did vary according to the level, however, and certainly the executive positions were top-heavy with males - that's certainly more balanced now.
Edited by currawong (01/02/12 11:13 PM) Edit Reason: Changed a word to clarify
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...
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#1817382 - 01/02/12 08:16 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: currawong]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 3586
Loc: Orange County, CA
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You're observing a relatively recent phenomenon. Before the 1980's, the majority of school teachers were male. I learned that fact from my "History of Education" class in college. Wow, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case where I am (I was teaching in the 70s/80s)! It did vary according to the level, however, and certainly the executive positions were top-heavy with males - that's certainly more even now. I don't remember the exact title, but one of the groups in my class presented a retro look at a "teacher textbook" from 1980, which stated that women were beginning to join the teaching work force. We all thought that was impossible, but our male professor (who had been a school principal for over 40 years) confirmed the statement's validity. He said that fewer and fewer men choose teaching as a profession, especially at the elementary level. The other group that looked at even older textbooks had some hilarious findings (like it was not okay for female teachers to get married????).
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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#1817383 - 01/02/12 08:17 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: kevinb]
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9000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 9207
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
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Most people misperceive risk, period. It's not a new phenomenon.
You're rigt of course. I used to bicycle across central London to work every day, and then walk up ten flights of stairs rather than the elevator, because I was scared the cable would break and I'd plunge to my doom.  But this abject, quivering fearfulness for our children does seem to me to be a relatively new phenomenon -- I don't recall things being this screwed up thirty years ago, or even twenty. I wouldn't want to express a hard opinion on this, because I lack good evidence. But I might be willing to hazard a guess that it's "new" only because it has become "newsworthy" over the past thirty or forty years. People now KNOW about this issue, so it becomes outsized in their risk perception, just like giant hazards they always knew about, like flying on an airliner.
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#1817502 - 01/02/12 11:11 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: AZNpiano]
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5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5221
Loc: Down Under
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I don't remember the exact title, but one of the groups in my class presented a retro look at a "teacher textbook" from 1980, which stated that women were beginning to join the teaching work force. We all thought that was impossible... Well, it sounds like things definitely were (as well as are) different here. I left school in the 60s, and the main careers which we girls were encouraged into were teaching and nursing. Slightly less capable girls could be secretaries or librarians. I was at school in the 50s and 60s and I would estimate at least 50% of teachers were female. Things hadn't changed much by the time I was teaching.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...
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#1817518 - 01/02/12 11:26 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 33
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It depends on the child. My daughter has 2 instructors for the same sport - one male and one female. They are very hands on (involves moving her body to get in the correct positions) and my daughter is totally comfortable.
Her best friend will not let the male instructor touch her. She is fine with the female instructor.
If I were her friend's mom, I wouldn't bother with a male instructor. For some reason she is not going to learn well from him.
I would assume the parent knows what is best for the child.
I don't think any teacher would be comfortable being alone in a small room with a child who is afraid.
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#1817572 - 01/03/12 01:10 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: currawong]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
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I don't remember the exact title, but one of the groups in my class presented a retro look at a "teacher textbook" from 1980, which stated that women were beginning to join the teaching work force. We all thought that was impossible... Well, it sounds like things definitely were (as well as are) different here. I left school in the 60s, and the main careers which we girls were encouraged into were teaching and nursing. Slightly less capable girls could be secretaries or librarians. I was at school in the 50s and 60s and I would estimate at least 50% of teachers were female. Things hadn't changed much by the time I was teaching. That all sounds remarkably similar to what I remember in the same time period. 1st grade through 6th, all my teachers were women, except for a physical education teacher in 6th grade. There were a few more men in junior high and in high school, but in college mostly male teachers. And the "gender gap" has not disappeared, it has just narrowed a lot.
_________________________
Piano Teacher
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#1817584 - 01/03/12 01:44 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
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My husband has taught mostly elementary school since around 1979, and he has had very, very few male colleagues. There are a few more male elementary school teachers around here in recent years, which my husband is happy about both for his own sake and so that the kids have the male role models they often lack at home.
I feel sad that male music teachers have to deal with fears that they will molest students or somehow be inappropriate. When I used to teach, it never even occurred to me that this could be an issue-- I had had teachers of both genders (a proper term to use for biological reality as well as grammar). This can be an issue for health care providers like me, as well. Many times female patients prefer being treated by a woman.
While we're on the language thing: It's LO and behold, not LOW and behold! I can't remember when I last saw that written correctly (meaning that those who do it wrong have had plenty of precedent and can perhaps be forgiven).
Elene
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#1817646 - 01/03/12 05:54 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Dustin Sanders]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 3468
Loc: South Florida
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My answer to the whole "trust issue" is to always allow parents to be present for any young kids until THEY decide it is comfortable for them to be alone with me. I teach in a store. There is a window on my door. Anyone can look in at any time, so there is both figurative and literal transparency. I'm comfortable with that. I don't think that awareness of molestation means that it is more common, simply that something very bad that used to be covered up is no longer as easily hidden. I have three grandchildren, 4, 6 and 8. I am VERY protective of them. It's a scary world out there. 
_________________________
Piano Teacher
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#1817685 - 01/03/12 08:47 AM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: Gary D.]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
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I don't think that awareness of molestation means that it is more common, simply that something very bad that used to be covered up is no longer as easily hidden. I have three grandchildren, 4, 6 and 8. I am VERY protective of them. It's a scary world out there. There are undoubtedly some features of the contemporary world that create risks for children that were not prevalent when I was a child. For example, most roads could be crossed safely by a seven-year old -- there were fewer cars and narrower roads. Policemen used to walk the beat, rather than cruising around in cars. And so on. It's plausible that, as you say, incidents of child molestation are now less easily covered up. However, my point is that child molestation (that we know about) is extremely uncommon. There are far greater risks to children that parents seem unconcerned about. For example, a woman I know won't leave her children unsupervised with a male music teacher, and yet allows them to ride to lessons in the car without wearing seat belts. This misapprehension of risks seems to me to be almost criminally negligent. I suspect that what's happened is that over the last thirty years or so, child molesters have moved from being figures of ridicule to figures of dread. It's hard to make a rational assessment of risk once dread kicks in.
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#1818106 - 01/03/12 10:28 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: painter55]
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Full Member
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
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"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps? No. Gender is different. A person who is a male as their sex can be a female as their gender, at least in my opinion. 'Sex' is the genetic code you were born with, 'Gender' is how you or the outside world perceives you. I could be wrong, but that's how I view them.
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#1818108 - 01/03/12 10:35 PM
Re: Sex matching between child and teacher?
[Re: MomOfBeginners]
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Full Member
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 479
Loc: US
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Sometimes, it's not because of fear that you'll molest the child. Sometimes, a little girl just relates better to a female grown-up and a little boy just relates better to a male grown-up. Or maybe the other way around. Maybe this is how they are taught to think... My teenage females do great with me. I hate to say it, but I am fairly handsome for my age, being 24. I have tons of energy and I am very playful. The teenage and adult females between the ages of 14 + seem to have this little 'giggly' thing about them when they are in lessons with me. I only have to smile and say please and they'll do their homework. Now for girls under 14, I can't address the issue fairly well, but I'd be willing to say that most of my little girls adore me - Specifically 2 asian girls ages 5 and 7 - And also my 6 year old girl student. My boy students have a harder time relating to me imo because I am definitely not the typical 'guy' type. I am totally straight, just more artsy and outgoing / feminine if I were to be totally honest So parents see this about me as well and they probably think I'm harmless lol But this is of course AFTER the first few lessons - Parents know I am a male before they sign up so I'm guessing they still take that into account..
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