And no, I don't mean 'that' kind of sex.

Recently, I had a woman call me to inquire about lessons for her daughter. I took it that the daughter was young, probably about 6 or 7. The woman said her daughter mentioned she would prefer a female teacher. So... Why was she calling me in the first place I wondered...but of course I didn't voice that sentiment directly to her.

This struck me as sort of odd. I understand that many little girls enjoy brushing the manes of little toy ponies and playing dress up at their miniature tea parties, but I just feel there is something a bit wrong with this scenario.

I feel like, in a way, I was being discriminated against because of my sex. I also started to wonder if agreeing to her daughters request would only continue to prevent her from developing relationships with males or if it probably doesn't matter and I was just overly annoyed at the whole thing.

I get the feeling that new parents into my studio are always more cautious about leaving their children with me since I am a male. As if the first thing I am going to do is molest them or something.

Do other male teachers here get the same feelings with new parents and do you feel like if you were a female teacher, you might get even 10% more inquiries?

As for me, I have a majority of female students. I adore them all greatly and they adore me - I have never felt that my sex has in any way made a female students experience less than what it would be if they were studying with a female.

I think you're making too much of this. Next week you'll get a call from a mother who wants her son to study with a male teacher.

The reason the mother still called you is she wanted to give you an opportunity to have a sex-change operation. Seems fair to me.

LOLOL!!!

That scenario doesn't bother me...I've experienced young girls leaving the studio for a female teacher after a month or two of lessons, that doesn't bother me either.

However, I've had young adult women leave for a female teacher because of possessive, jealous boyfriends/husbands. That's creepy.

"Gender" rather than "sex" perhaps?

Dustin, my student break-down is roughly 50/50, but it seems that most of my female colleagues (locally) have a majority of girls. Some of it can be attributed to parents looking for a masculine role model for their sons. For the most part, I suspect that parents who are uncomfortable with male teachers for their daughters never contact me. Yes, that's discrimination, but contrary to the PC crowd, I feel it's the parents primary job to make these assessments about their students and have no heart-burn about it. It's reality.

But your story does remind me of a really strange interview I had quite a few years ago. A young lady, probably middle school age, came for an interview. About 15 minutes into the trial lesson, she turned on the faucet, was shaking, etc., etc. The parents were at a loss, as was I, as I've never, ever seen anything like this. Naturally, I suggested she might feel more comfortable with a female teacher, which is what eventually happened. Fast forward 4 or 5 years. I was at a birthday party for one of my young students. Low and behold, entire family of this "strange" student was at same party. There was no sign that they recognized me at all, but I noticed something rather strange. The daughter hung on the dad, as if their relationship was well past the father-daughter relationship, if you catch my drift. The world is full of pratfalls, and for one, this is one student I am more than happy to have avoided!

FWIW, my grammar teacher used to drill us that gender is a grammatical term, sex is a biological distinction.

Personally, I think this attitude stinks. You could try pointing out that (according to the US Justice Bureau) children are 30 times more likely to be killed or injured by a relative than by a stranger, and that 50-odd percent of all child deaths and injuries are caused by their own parents.

But I don't suppose it will help. Many parents are no longer able to make rational decisions about their children's safety.

I would not get offended, Dustin. In this day and age where you really can't trust anyone, parents have to be very careful who they leave alone with their child. And sad to say, a vast majority of sex offenders are male. One thing you can do is ask some of your current families that you've taught for several years if they would be willing to be a reference for you. Simply ask if they would like to be on your list of referrals for prospective families to call and discuss how lessons have gone.

And of course, if you suspect that they have reservations for safety reasons, you may want to let them know that parents are always welcome to observe lessons, but kindly ask them to not participate or interrupt, saving any questions for after the lesson.

Most people misperceive risk, period. It's not a new phenomenon.

FWIW, "gender" is often used to describe social roles, reserving "sex" for the biological attributes.

My mother would not leave me alone with anyone when I was a child...let alone a grown man. You are reading WAY too deeply into this. I think parents and children have a right to decide what is comfortable for them. I also doubt that turning you down for piano lessons means that the mother is trying to prevent her daughter from building male relationships.

I personally, still feel more comfortable around women in certain situations than I do men. If I ever had a male instructor growing up and whatever I was doing required touching or being close...my mother was there, making sure I was safe. Im sure its nothing against you...but society is really messed up right now.

You're rigt of course. I used to bicycle across central London to work every day, and then walk up ten flights of stairs rather than the elevator, because I was scared the cable would break and I'd plunge to my doom.

But this abject, quivering fearfulness for our children does seem to me to be a relatively new phenomenon -- I don't recall things being this screwed up thirty years ago, or even twenty.

More aptly, misused! Just as half the American population cannot use I and me correctly. I'm hanging up my grammar patrol badge now.

Sometimes, it's not because of fear that you'll molest the child. Sometimes, a little girl just relates better to a female grown-up and a little boy just relates better to a male grown-up. Or maybe the other way around.

Battle of the *genders*...

The *gender* revolution.

There is a shift going on, and people who are presently attempting to be very PC are redefining words.

When I was in elementary school, all the school teachers were women, with the exception of the gym teacher. My first male teacher was in 8th grade. I've only finished college recently, so this may still be the case if other schools are like this.
Personally, I think it is a flaw if students only have women teachers, as male role models are very important too.

On the other hand, I can imagine that parents of a 14 or 15 year old boy may have some reservations about a female teacher (or more specifically the student) if she's in her 20's or 30's. In fact, if the wife is very over-protective, she may not let the husband meet the teacher without supervision. If I were a parent, I may prefer that the kid have a teacher of the opposite gender, just so they get a little variety away from their peer group; but even if that was a consideration it would be of minimal importance.

Gender is very important when finding a dance teacher, but that's a different issue.

John, you might be interested in this:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gender

Merriam Webster used to have extensive usage notes online, but the whole site has been horribly dumbed-down. Many of these grammatical questions are as thorny many of the musical details we talk about in this forum.

To be on the safe side in 2012, I would stick with "gender" in any situation where "sex" is not the only choice.

Back to student-teacher "matching"...

I think there is a general trade-off. I'm sure that some little girls want a woman teacher, period, but I also think a lot of the young guys like the idea of studying with a man.

Of course, there are MANY exceptions!

You're observing a relatively recent phenomenon. Before the 1980's, the majority of school teachers were male. I learned that fact from my "History of Education" class in college.

Wow, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case where I am (I was teaching in the 70s/80s)! It did vary according to the level, however, and certainly the executive positions were top-heavy with males - that's certainly more balanced now.

I don't remember the exact title, but one of the groups in my class presented a retro look at a "teacher textbook" from 1980, which stated that women were beginning to join the teaching work force. We all thought that was impossible, but our male professor (who had been a school principal for over 40 years) confirmed the statement's validity. He said that fewer and fewer men choose teaching as a profession, especially at the elementary level.

The other group that looked at even older textbooks had some hilarious findings (like it was not okay for female teachers to get married????).

I wouldn't want to express a hard opinion on this, because I lack good evidence. But I might be willing to hazard a guess that it's "new" only because it has become "newsworthy" over the past thirty or forty years. People now KNOW about this issue, so it becomes outsized in their risk perception, just like giant hazards they always knew about, like flying on an airliner.

Well, it sounds like things definitely were (as well as are) different here. I left school in the 60s, and the main careers which we girls were encouraged into were teaching and nursing. Slightly less capable girls could be secretaries or librarians.
I was at school in the 50s and 60s and I would estimate at least 50% of teachers were female. Things hadn't changed much by the time I was teaching.

It depends on the child. My daughter has 2 instructors for the same sport - one male and one female. They are very hands on (involves moving her body to get in the correct positions) and my daughter is totally comfortable.

Her best friend will not let the male instructor touch her. She is fine with the female instructor.

If I were her friend's mom, I wouldn't bother with a male instructor. For some reason she is not going to learn well from him.

I would assume the parent knows what is best for the child.

I don't think any teacher would be comfortable being alone in a small room with a child who is afraid.

That all sounds remarkably similar to what I remember in the same time period.

1st grade through 6th, all my teachers were women, except for a physical education teacher in 6th grade. There were a few more men in junior high and in high school, but in college mostly male teachers.

And the "gender gap" has not disappeared, it has just narrowed a lot.

My husband has taught mostly elementary school since around 1979, and he has had very, very few male colleagues. There are a few more male elementary school teachers around here in recent years, which my husband is happy about both for his own sake and so that the kids have the male role models they often lack at home.

I feel sad that male music teachers have to deal with fears that they will molest students or somehow be inappropriate. When I used to teach, it never even occurred to me that this could be an issue-- I had had teachers of both genders (a proper term to use for biological reality as well as grammar). This can be an issue for health care providers like me, as well. Many times female patients prefer being treated by a woman.

While we're on the language thing: It's LO and behold, not LOW and behold! I can't remember when I last saw that written correctly (meaning that those who do it wrong have had plenty of precedent and can perhaps be forgiven).

Elene

My answer to the whole "trust issue" is to always allow parents to be present for any young kids until THEY decide it is comfortable for them to be alone with me.

I teach in a store. There is a window on my door. Anyone can look in at any time, so there is both figurative and literal transparency. I'm comfortable with that.

I don't think that awareness of molestation means that it is more common, simply that something very bad that used to be covered up is no longer as easily hidden.

I have three grandchildren, 4, 6 and 8. I am VERY protective of them.

It's a scary world out there.

There are undoubtedly some features of the contemporary world that create risks for children that were not prevalent when I was a child.

For example, most roads could be crossed safely by a seven-year old -- there were fewer cars and narrower roads. Policemen used to walk the beat, rather than cruising around in cars. And so on.

It's plausible that, as you say, incidents of child molestation are now less easily covered up. However, my point is that child molestation (that we know about) is extremely uncommon. There are far greater risks to children that parents seem unconcerned about.

For example, a woman I know won't leave her children unsupervised with a male music teacher, and yet allows them to ride to lessons in the car without wearing seat belts. This misapprehension of risks seems to me to be almost criminally negligent.

I suspect that what's happened is that over the last thirty years or so, child molesters have moved from being figures of ridicule to figures of dread. It's hard to make a rational assessment of risk once dread kicks in.

No. Gender is different. A person who is a male as their sex can be a female as their gender, at least in my opinion. 'Sex' is the genetic code you were born with, 'Gender' is how you or the outside world perceives you.

I could be wrong, but that's how I view them.

Maybe this is how they are taught to think...

My teenage females do great with me. I hate to say it, but I am fairly handsome for my age, being 24. I have tons of energy and I am very playful. The teenage and adult females between the ages of 14 + seem to have this little 'giggly' thing about them when they are in lessons with me. I only have to smile and say please and they'll do their homework.

Now for girls under 14, I can't address the issue fairly well, but I'd be willing to say that most of my little girls adore me - Specifically 2 asian girls ages 5 and 7 - And also my 6 year old girl student.

My boy students have a harder time relating to me imo because I am definitely not the typical 'guy' type. I am totally straight, just more artsy and outgoing / feminine if I were to be totally honest

So parents see this about me as well and they probably think I'm harmless lol

But this is of course AFTER the first few lessons - Parents know I am a male before they sign up so I'm guessing they still take that into account..

This post bothers me on so many different levels that I hardly know where to start.

Happily, I was never blessed (or cursed) with the looks or personality that make teenage girls giggly, so this isn't an issue I've ever had to address myself.

Me too.

I wonder if anyone else is thinking of "Oh Lord It's Hard To Be Humble" by Mac Davis:

All I can say is that you should cherish being you. It must be quite thrilling.

Let me help you. *Narcissus*.

That should get you warmed up! LOL

Interesting discussion. My piano teacher gets all of his children to have their parents chaperon EVERY. SINGLE. LESSON. He thinks that in this day and age it is perfectly normal to be scared of pedophilia and child molestation. I suppose it's rare ... but for some reason in my circle of friends, I know three people who were molested as children ... and they aren't even distant friends... probably just a coincidence, I'm not sure, statistics will probably verify that it is indeed rare.

LOL ... the post was um ... but it didn't bother me that greatly ... I've had crushes on crazy egotistical guys who were much worse ... :p

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking the same thing.

You mean you have never had a pretty female teacher that you were eager to impress?

I can recall a few...my history teacher was drop dead gorgeous when I was high school. About 5 foot 2, 120 lbs and would wear leather boots with a skirt to school a lot of the days. I was 15 at the time and was always like 'Please please, pick me, I know the answer'

I find nothing wrong with that.

That's not the part I have trouble with, but oh well, it doesn't matter enough anyway.

I only stand in front of the mirror for no more than 2 hours a day

(Obviously, that is sarcasm in case anyone missed it.)

(And wow. I wasn't 'bragging' about being "fairly handsome", just setting the tone for why my female students seem to like me a lot.)

(And also why this match can be quite positive if the student is more eager to please their teacher.)

(...but some of you may disagree...I am a contrarian when it comes to most things anyway....social political correctness annoy me...)

Thanks, I do love myself

I have an adult male student in his 30's. When he began lessons he said his wife wanted to observe a lesson. I said that would be fine. I felt certain she wanted to check to see if I was a threat to her marriage.

She never did meet me or observe a lesson. Somehow without meeting me, it was determined that I was not a threat. ... which means I'm too old to be seen as a threat

The point he is trying to make is that it is disquieting or even sinister for a grown man to be thinking things like `Oooh these seven year olds are giggling, that means they are attracted to me`.

This is my first post for a couple of years! Hi!

Yes, that describes my thoughts too.

As mother of an 8-year-old and a 6-year-old serious about providing music education to my girls, I am not your (OP's) target market.

They don't fancy him. They're just testing out their feminine wiles, with which they will later on ensnare and manipulate men.

Boy I know one thing if I was in Dustin's shoes would be $$$$$..girls talk to other girls and that = more clients = more $$$$$..sorry gotta go with the money..

Dustin,

You might want to remember that this is a public google-able forum, and you're using your real name.

Currently if you google "Dustin Sanders kids", this thread appears as the first hit. If I were a parent looking for a prospective teacher, these posts would be fatal to your chances.

Not everyone will share my view, but more than you might think might.

-J

Yes a famous name is sometimes a blessing!

Correction. I never made any such comment. The lowest age I went to was 14, not 7.

I said that my younger students ages 5, 6, 7 also adore me because I am playful and have lots of energy.

Funny that I am not your target market for something I didn't say ...

I never said that. Go re read the posts.

Yeah, so what? You implying that I should not be honest about how I think teenage girls view older and attractive teachers?

I think you are all nuts, personally for denying this fact. It's part of human nature and female psychology - females are attracted to older males but not always in a sexual way - It could be more in a 'He's fun and I like being around him' sort of way.

When I was 15 or younger, I had huge crushes on my attractive female teachers.

Political correctness can be shoved out a 10 story window for all I care...

Dustin, I find nothing wrong with any of what you said except that you probably have female Psychology wrong. Not every girl is attracted to older men. I'm sure some are in the way that you describe but I'm also pretty sure that it is not a huge majority. So I'm not sure you can generalize like you just did unless you have seen statistics that say so. Also, I'm completely straight and I never had a crush on a teacher in school. I was only attracted to girls my own age. If 14 year olds are giggly around you, so be it. Not all 14 year olds act the same way, you just happen to have some giggly ones.

Dustin, I'm 24 and I like to think that I do quite well.
But if a girl anywhere near the age of 18 (or god forbid younger) starts giggling when talking to me and I get a sense that she is attracted to me, I have an instant, "run away as fast as possible!" instinct.
In fact, my teacher told me that one of her students in junior highschool liked me; I'm a bit more comfortable knowing that student now has lessons on a different day than me.


I also take salsa dancing lessons, and in that area there is significant judgement based on gender and appearance. The gender judgement is obvious and based on a person's comfort (for both the student and teacher). For appearance, the teacher needs to be athletic and in good shape if they want students to take them seriously, and height is also a practical issue sometimes.

Maybe you should change fields and become a dance instructor... you might make a lot more money doing it too.

Yes, I maybe overgeneralized. I obviously don't mean 100% of females.

But , go into any high school and compare the number of girls dating boys in grades lower than them and then find how many girls are dating boys in grades above them.

Also, I have heard more times than I can count by females that females prefer older men.

Also - if you go to any dating website and look at what the females are preferring ... they practically never have marked off an age below their own. Some of the 20 year old girls will have 35 as their max age but won't put 19 or 18 down.

It seems to be pretty common sense that what I said is 'generically' true, but again - not 100%.

A dating website is an entirely different matter. When actively looking for a life partner, a female tends to prefer an older male for a variety of biological reasons. However, we digress. Like Jason said, this might not be the best google result for your name but I like the fact that you don't care to be politically right. I'm like that myself. Many serial killers and other criminals are probably very socially adept and politically right people while out in public. So I don't judge people by whether or not they care to be politically right.

It's got nothing to do with political correctness. In fact, I find it disconcerting when people invoke 'political correctness' to justify exhibiting attitudes that other people find unacceptable.

Rather, it's about professionalism. Attraction has the capacity to interfere with any professional relationship. It's a problem at university level although, by that age, students (and teachers :/) are generally mature enough to separate their personal feelings from their professional obligations.

This is not always true for teenagers, which is why such care has to be taken by teachers. Any suspicion that a lesson is anything other than a professional engagement is cause for concern, and cause for serious concern where minors are involved.

I think that's what makes me uncomfortable about your posts: you seem to relish and be entertained by a situation that most of us would find somewhat disquieting.

Young ladies flirt, sometimes outrageously. (Then they sulk.) They are practicing their social/sexual skills. It's not aimed at me in particular - I just happen to be the male animal who's within range. I mustn't respond. But it still cheers me up a bit. How sad if it didn't!

If you read anything sinister into that, it's YOU who have the problem.

It's not the situation I find disquieting (I never said sinister, or anything like it) -- it's people's apparent willingness to find it entertaining and agreeable that worries me a bit.

As a teacher, I think that anything that distracts from a professional student-teacher relationship is potentially a problem. Lessons are not the place for students to practice their social skills. If your students are flirting with you then at best they are wasting their time and money, and at worst are creating an environment not at all amenable to the learning process.

To some extent this kind of behaviour is unavoidable, but I believe it should be discouraged. A teacher who finds it agreeable is unlikely to be discouraging it, even if he thinks he is.

I had a few male teachers in their 20s when I was a young lady (teen). All I remember thinking about them was that they were wonderful musicians and so OLD!

Yes, potentially. But only potentially. Don't encourage, don't respond, don't be embarassed that, to a certain extent, the flirting works! Would you steal Christmas as well? :-)

I guess why I can understand why parents of young girls might wish that male teachers all be old, ugly, smell bad, and have disagreeable personalities--- if they have to go into teaching at all.

Dustin is evidently not supposed to possess a mirror or television set, care about having a presentable appearance, interpret behavior, and must think teaching is a drag and show it visibly. All schoolteachers are supposed to be fifty years behind the times--- and many are.

I don't get the sense that Dustin is trolling for jailbait. I think he is being pilloried unfairly, judging by what he has actually said here. If he has a professional teacher's credential, then his training has included the ethics involved in instructing the young, including the very excellent reasons that sexual liasions incur such drastic legal and professional consequences and must be prevented; even to the slightest appearance. It's especially true where private instruction is given, and why precautions such as video recording of lessons and instruction rooms which are in plain view of others (and not private at all), or lessons at which a parent is present are so common these days. These things make good sense for lots of reasons, and protect both parties.

Why not have a teacher who is fun, as well as a good teacher? Do they all have to be ugly? Does being a handsome young guy mean that he automatically has no ethics, and no good sense, and is a child predator wolf in piano teacher sheep's clothing? And do we have the right to make a teacher's private life an open book--- it this legitimately grist for our mill?

I would say, "Yes, no, no, no, and no," and I would add that it is both wrong and stupid, and if parents of piano students are not satisfied that their kids are both safe with their teachers and also effectively instructed, then they are not carrying their appropriate part of the burden.

I had awkward situations teaching adult males who became attracted to me (it was not mutual) or their wives spied on the lesson and became jealous or suspicious and treated me like a potential homewrecker.

One lady thought I was having an affair with her husband because I unknowingly mailed her child's recital memo to her husband's office when I thought I mailed it to their home. I used the listing found in whitepages.com because I did not have my rolodex of addresses handy. I knew their home address had the word "lake" in it, and when I saw the word "lake" in the whitepages listing, I assumed that was their home address. I later discovered the office address also had "lake" in it.

The lady put the opened envelope on the chair I sit in during lessons so when I came into the lesson, I would see it. I was puzzled by that -- it was not a love note, it was a freakin recital memo. I didn't get that. Anyway, she asked why I mailed it to her husband's address. I explained everything I just explained earlier and she went and looked it up herself and discovered I was not lying.

Nuts to that kinda crap, now I just teach kids.

I am a Mom of boy/girl twins, now 10 years old.
My daughter's music teacher is female. My son's is male. When my daughter was younger (6-7 years old) she was very uncomfortable around men. I don't know why. She has since outgrown it, But at that age I wouldn't have considered a male teacher for her.
Now, at age 10, it would be fine and more about the individual's personality than gender.

My son can sometimes be silly or squirmy, or unfocused. He has done very well with his grandfatherly piano teacher who doesn't hesitate to be a little gruff with him when necessary, or to use goofy language or gestures when that is more appropriate. There are women teachers who could do the same thing, but it might not come as naturally and the guy connection has been a plus in this situation. My son loves hearing stories from his teacher about things the teacher did as a kid. Little League is a big topic between them, for example.

PS My piano teacher is a man and I am always raving at home about how great he is. I must have a secure husband because he never gets jealous!

You just haven't met his female piano teacher yet!

I don't agree with that teacher, but I do insist that an accompanying adult is somewhere at least within earshot of the lesson. I have no problem in communicating that this is purely for my protection. Their child is in no danger from me whereas the slightest allegation could damage me considerably. I refuse to be complicit in society's paranoia.


John

I've always had my studio space set up where the parent could sit somewhere within earshot, so it's almost like sitting in, and of course, no closed doors so that they could always come and look if they wanted. In my new home, however, there is an open floor plan and so the parent would be sitting right there. Sometimes I find parents can be a distraction, not from anything they do, but the child knowing that they are there will sometimes look to the parent to answer questions for them, things like that. This only happens with new students who take some time to get to know me. So it's not ideal as it is, but I think if I rearrange some furniture and maybe get a nice room divider I can make it so that the parent can sit there and not inadvertently interfere.

We can none of us help the way we're made. It would, I'm sure, be discriminatory to have an 'unattractiveness qualification' for teachers.

But that's not my point at all. I would have thought that the appropriate reaction for a teacher whose teenage students tend to find him or her attractive is: "how can I minimise the impact this has on my teaching practice?", and not: "I'm so wonderful."

Is "discriminatory" bad? When you choose which teacher (or which anything) to employ, you are discriminating. Should we be forced to just take the next in line, as specified by a union or a government agency?

Precisely, kevinb. I am all too aware of my teenage male students and what most likely their minds wander to. I try to be especially judicious when choosing what I wear for lessons for this very reason. Not that I have clothes that are particularly showing (I dress very modestly), but I might wear something a bit frumpier than usual LOL. I also keep a healthy distance and try to avoid touching if at all possible, although at times it is necessary. And I make a point to speak often of my husband (fondly, of course).

You can't IMAGINE how sexy we men find that!


Thus indicating EXACTLY what's on your mind at the time!

The serious point being, if someone has decided to latch on to you, NOTHING you can do will deflect it.

Male teachers probably are experiencing some degree of gender bias.

The same thing is likely happening to massage therapists. Some women simply won't go to a male massage therapist, and some men will not go to a male massage therapist. And no one objects to the female M.T.'s.

I can understand the massage therapist selection bias; to me its obvious. I won't have another guy touching me... its not my type of thing. If my girlfriend goes to a male massage therapist, it doesn't bother me at all (though I spoil her with massages anyway).

However, I will NOT go to a male hair stylist, and I will not go to an unattractive female hairstylist either. I am very strict about this. I have had a few too many experiences of hairstylists being too "frisky" with me, and two occasions when fat hairstylists simply leaned their blubber on me the entire time. I insist on enjoying haircuts, rather than spending the time cringing or fending off someone's advances.
So, now I have wonderful hairstylist who is within a few years of my age (mid-20's); she's pretty, charming, and talented. And before anyone gets any ideas: she's frequently offered me her email address and I reply "sure, later when I can write it down," and I never bother to get it later.
I enjoy haircuts too much to risk making it complicated. And I have often scheduled a haircut the day before an important date anyway.

You're the only man I know of who enjoys and takes haircuts that seriously. For me it's a task on a to-do list......but this is off topic so I'll shush up.

So the crux of the matter really is that you enjoy "fending off" a pretty 25 year old girl's "advances" but not so much an overweight 25 year old's "advances".

Actually there are some women who don't like to go to female M.T.s. I would never have thought of it, but a coworker once mentioned it and I thought it was kind of odd. I mentioned it to my husband who has friends that are M.T.s and he confirmed it was not just my coworker, he knew of many women who felt that way. To me a massage was just a professional service much like physical therapy, I never cared if the therapist was a man or woman.

I wouldn't put it like that, and I wouldn't say my stylist made any "advances" (and I wouldn't stop her if she tried). As far as I can tell, she is in a happy relationship, and I would expect her to date someone a bit older than me and with a more established career than I have, anyway. She's just very friendly and pleasant to talk to. I can look forward to getting a haircut; whereas some guys dread haircuts and act like they are going to the dentist. Did I mention that the haircut chair is padded like a LayZBoy recliner, they give me a softdrink, and I can watch ESPN while waiting?

For the bad haircut experience: I didnt like when a woman crawled onto my lap and talked about having me in her future, while she waved scissors around my scalp and eyes. It's bad enough if someone gets too close for my comfort, it's much more awkward if they do it while holding sharp tools.

Maybe I could compare it to having a favorite restaurant or bar. It may not have the best food in the city and it may not be the most convenient, but they are very nice to me and I feel comfortable there.

Yes, I take my haircuts too seriously. I have nice hair, and I probably won't have it forever. I will enjoy it while I can. No one could blame me for that

Well, at least you're honest - you see sexuality as an important part of a haircut, and you admit at least the possibility of homosexual interaction!

LOL. I said I won't go to a male hairstylist, but I have gone to male barbers and they have done a very good job at a great price. But I prefer a bit more styling, combined with the option for fashion advice.

I knew I would open a can of worms. Should I also mention that I insist on only having a female dance teacher and female dance partners?

Maybe foolish. Who you dance WITH is one matter. But the best choreographers have always been men. And, if I was worried about style, I'd always choose a gay man friend as my shopping companion. He is INTERESTED in the subject (male attire, not me!) Women tend to either be boringly practical or try to dress you up as THEIR fashion accessory.

Not at all, it sends a very strong message if I feel it's necessary. I cannot control people, but they can certainly know where I draw my boundaries.

Then Heaven help you when you get old enough to need rectal exams. Of course, female doctors are prepared to do this for their male patients, but often their fingers aren't long enough to reach far enough up your arsehole.

That was obnoxious.

-J

I'm a straight man. Now, if the world's most beautiful woman gave me a massage, I wouldn't mind (of course)! However, for all real world purposes, I need a good strong massage when I do get a massage. So my only criterion really is strength. So I don't care about gender, age or looks as long as the M.T is capable of giving me a strong massage because I'd like to get good value for my money!

Exalted, I very much agree with you. It is interesting that, at times (I've not done the research that could warrant a generalization that includes today), men have dominated the fashion world, and have often been the leading choreographers.
I could learn a lot from a male dance instructor, and there are some things like body language and hip/torso movement that would be easier to learn from them than from a woman instructor. But, the actual practice would be less helpful, and I'd end up learning how to dance with men rather than women. Because women have longer legs, a different center of mass, and tend to be shorter, there is a big difference when actually dancing with a partner. So yes male instructors are very qualified and would be good, but a woman instructor is much more suitable.
Also, the world's most respected hair stylist may be Vidal Sassoon, who is very much a man, and he did a charming interview with NPR months ago. I would pick him over my hair stylist any day of the week, but he charges more than I could afford (and I'd need to fly to wherever he is). I don't think a haircut from him could really be hundreds of dollars better, but he would be a wonderful person to meet. I think that he is out of the realm of real-world possibility, so it's safe to exclude him from my generalizations.
My basic concept is: I can get a great haircut from a very charming lady for almost the same price as I could get a haircut from anyone else. I'll stay with the charming hair stylist. I know that my preferences can be a source of amusement for others, but I never thought they could be so controversial.

For fashion advice, I guess it depends on the friends involved, and it gets even more subjective after that, and I've strayed from the thread topic enough.



Kevin,
I think a doctor visit is a different category from something that I enjoy, and the same preferences do not apply. I think I would prefer the doctor be discrete, rather than pick one based on gender.

My apologies for dragging the thread off topic. I will now attempt to drag it back.


I think that I would base any gender preference for the teacher more on my current situation, rather than an underlying preference. In other words, I would just rationalize to support whatever teacher I happen to have; though gender would be the least important consideration possible. And honestly, people often use rationality to justify a pre-existing preference, rather than to establish the preference in the first place.

If you take part in endurance sports (and probably in other circumstances, too) massage is therapeutic -- part of the recovery process. It isn't different in principle from seeing a doctor for any another health concern.

But if you find massage by a person of one gender agreeable and by the other disagreeable, then you are treating massage as a kind of sexual activity. And that's absolutely fine -- I can see absolutely no problem with saying that one prefers sexual activities with one gender more than the oher

The problem is generalising from something that people (some people at least) consider to have (at least to some extent) a sexual motivation, to the process of teaching, which should not. You can't generalise from what's appropriate in massage to what's appropriate in a teaching setting.