Dear teachers:

My daughter began private piano lessons at 5 and half years old, each class is 45 mins. She finished primer level books ("Piano Adventures; Performance Book - Primer Level," Nancy and Randall Faber, total 4 books) within 5 months. Since then she works only in a method book ("The Joy of First-Year Piano," Denes Agay) and has been given only three scales to learn (C, G major and E major). Now she has been studying piano for 8 months and she finished half of the method book ("The Joy of First-Year Piano," Denes Agay). Her teacher says that she is a quick learner and picks up new materials very well during her lessons, plus she has very good coordination.

She practices piano 45 mins every day at home. I wonder how to best improve and maintain momentum in my daughter’s piano lessons. To be honest, I am puzzled why she only plays from one book (“The Joy of First-Year Piano”) since she has so much to learn. Any advice is appreciated.

Regards;
Lily

Lily, have you asked your daughter's teacher about this? I think you have a valid concern, and you won't offend the teacher by asking. I would say it's more common for students to use a variety of books, especially as the more popular methods divide theory, ear training, technique, and sight reading into separate books (i.e. Alfred, Bastien, Hal Leonard, Faber). At 8 months some non-method books can be integrated as well.

It's really hard for us to guess why your daughter is using only one book, not having any background about the instructor's teaching style (although at first glance, it definitely appears different from my own).

+1. Any answer we give you would be skewed by the fact that we don't know your daughter at all, nor are we the teacher who has worked with her.

Have you asked your daughter's teacher what her goals are for your daughter - what she is trying to achieve? She may also be able to tell you how you as a parent can help. A book is only a tool. The real teaching happens with the teacher. One teacher might take a single piece because it's on page 12 of a book, and get the student to play the right notes in the right time. Another teacher might take the same piece and use it to teach better coordination, an understanding of major chords and whatnot. One teacher may think "at this time this student needs to understand major and minor chords, and get better control of the left hand." Which books a teacher uses does not tell you much about what the teacher is doing with a student.

My children used the Joy of First-Year Piano book (along with many other books), and it's a fun book. You should indeed ask your teacher to explain to you her plans for teaching your daughter as well as her style of teaching. Method books are useful to some students and teachers but are not required for all. If the teacher has a very good idea in mind about how to introduce the technical points and theory, (s)he may do so without method books, and may do so implicitly, through pretty much any beginner book. But you will need to find out whether this is what the teacher does, or whether the teacher simply has no clear plan.

You daughter might be a bit young for this but I thought I would share what my mother did for me that was priceless....every so often she would take me to a music store and let me browse the books.....an hour later I would walk out with a handful....to this day I still seek out music stores whenever I travel and I think this helped to make me a good sight-reader...you would probably need a teachers' suggestions but at least your daughter could tell you what she 'd like to learn.

I always have my students using 2-4 books at least.

rada

I would question your teacher why your daughter is down to one method book? This is really surprising that she has her for a 45 minute lesson as well. I prefer 30 minutes with 15 minute practices a day, not 45 minutes! She must really patient with your daughter because 5 year olds are wiggle worms after 10 or so minutes sitting. Why is she beginning with scales at an early age when she could be doing other fun things at the lesson? I plan my lessons so 5 year old does not get bored, let alone practice so long! The teacher does not have experience teaching 5 and 6 years old, especially with the piano pedagogy part. I would question her right away why changing from some books down to one. I AGREE that she should have ear training, theory, and maybe composition added to the lesson to incorporate a well-rounded curriculum. I disagree of introducing scales at a young age when they are still trying to comphrehend their fixed hand positions, learning notes and intervals. Good luck tasking yourself to talk to your daughter's teacher right away about your goals for your daughter.

Miss Karen, how can you even question when you have no idea what goes on in the lesson? The number of method books does not equate to good teaching. And each child is different, so perhaps this child can sit through 45 minutes without a problem. She is practicing at home for that long, so it doesn't seem tobe a point on contention for the parent here. Time of practice and lesson length is generally dictated by the attention span of the child, not necessarily the age. I would not question the piano teacher's abilities based on that information alone.

I introduce scales as soon as kids know their finger numbers well enough to do so. Doing step-wise motion on the piano is what all the repertoire is doing at this level, and there is no requirement in scales to do them fast.

I have been teaching a five year old girl for about 3 months now. She has a similar level of focus. Our lessons are supposed to be 30 minutes but I routinely go up to 45 mins because she is focused enough. She practices every day for about an hour. I think your concern might be a legitimate one. I can describe what I do with my student so that you can judge for yourself if you need to talk to your daughter's student about some of this.

We took 10-12 lessons (close to 2.5-3 months) to get through Bastien Primer level because she had to be taught how to read from scratch since her suzuki lessons prior to our lessons didn't focus on reading. However, I also have her work on Bartok's Mikrokosmos in parallel, and some beginning Hanon, C major and C# major scales (so far), ear training (she can identify major and minor by ear, need to introduce more chords now). We will begin Piano Adventures Level 1 in the next couple of lessons. I also plan to start her on a Bach Invention within the next month or so, and I also give her plenty of sight reading (I use Diller-Quaille) exercises. I don't use a separate book for theory, we just discuss the theory for each piece. However, I got her to buy the Piano Adventures level 1 theory book so that we can do all that systematically when we begin level 1. I also give her cds every other week that she has to listen to (her parents play them in their car and around the house) and I send youtube videos (2-3 every week) to her parents. They get her to watch them. So she now knows who Martha Argerich is, who Yuja Wang is, who Valentina Lisitsa is, etc (I send her a lot of women pianists' videos to motivate her). I also gifted her a recorder for Christmas. Its a simple enough instrument to intuitively play. I myself picked up songs on the recorder as a kid and it helps develop intervals. I also gifted her (for new year) a huge book of Mozart's biography (that I picked up from a piano teacher who was moving and couldn't take all these books with her)with a lot of paintings of Mozart, his mother, his piano, his house, etc.

So I think if all your daughter has been doing is one single method book, you might want to talk to the teacher about it. You could simply ask about theory, ear training, technique, music history, etc and ask her if these things are being addressed in addition to learning the pieces in the method book. Ask the teacher for listening suggestions. You need to play a lot of classical music in your house and car for your daughter to listen to. Listening to the masters can have a HUGE influence on her piano playing (in good ways, of course).

your daughter sounds WONDERFUL! wish i had her. I give my youngest students a little present after each lesson (cost to me about 5 cents.. priceless to the student) you might give a little something to her after a lesson... show her how proud you are. She sounds like she's progressing rather rapidly.

the teacher sounds wonderful too actually.. I start my youngies off on scales and arpeggios from the beginning to get them used to travelling up and down the keyboard and 'spotting' notes. maybe you could sit in on a lesson. Every student is different (to me) and presents unique opportunities and challenges. You've gotten wonderful advice on this thread.. personally while I do not promote or advocate the Suzuki method I love the first two books with the CDs included. They can certainly compliment other methods. I do not like to adhere to a single method, as many songs from different books can compliment other songs, yet provide interest and variety to the student.

I own a copy of The Joy of First-Year Piano.. it's an awesome book. With teacher explanation - it could be a very good teaching tool.
(disclaimer: Not an MTNA)

Oh yea, I forgot to mention that. I do this too.. I gift her foam animal stickers (slightly more expensive than pasticky paper stickers) at the end of each lesson. We've now moved on to disney characters because she has all the animals in the packet now and does not want to repeat animals. She is an absolute joy to teach. From what the OP says about her daughter, I'm sure I'd have enjoyed teaching her!

(I'm about out of crystals.. It's a amazing how excited a kid gets about a little piece of pretty plastic.. ha ha)

I loathe it when people who do not know me and do not know what I am doing in lessons begin giving advice about how I should be teaching better, differently, more effectively.

TALK TO THE TEACHER...

Like Gary, I'm mystified that parents would ask complete strangers for advice before consulting with the professional they've hired to teach their child.

And while I'm on my soap box, let me add that I loath it when people come on this forum, claim they are a teacher, but DON'T READ THE BASIC INSTRUCTIONS for teachers using the forum. It speaks loudly about your abilities and attitudes as a teacher.

Just in case you're part of the 10% who don't get it, read Piano Industry Pros - READ THIS which is the 2nd topic from the top of Page 1 in the Teacher's Forum (How could you have missed this?).

Climbing down off soap box now.

Like I said in an earlier thread just a couple of days ago, I don't teach for a living, I teach 2 kids (kids of people I know) mainly for the experience. So I don't consider myself a piano industry professional nor would anybody in their senses. I don't see why somebody has to SHOUT off a Psychological reason). John, happy new year to you, hopefully you will find more useful things to do this year than spar with me at every little chance you get. Now I would agree if you REQUESTED ME POLITELY to include a disclaimer in my posts here (which have to do with teaching) that I'm NOT a professional. I would consider doing that if only you could act like a professional yourself (since you claim to be one) and not get belligerent with me.

I guess John addressed apple too with that post of his. apple is not a regular poster here in the teacher's forum (nor am I, I post mostly in the pianist corner). The signature space is limited. If everybody who wanted to post here on this forum (even if only infrequently) had to heed to John's demands, they wouldn't have space for their primary signature line (that adheres to the spirit of the forum they visit most frequently). So please use the soap box sensibly.

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

Teachers have different approaches and "teaching styles." One is not necessarily better than another. Personally, I would never use The Joy of First-Year Piano as a method, but I know a respected colleague who does, and she gets great results. You actually have to do a lot of teaching (and not rely so much on the book to do the teaching) because Agay gave minimal instructions in his book.

Most of my 5-year-old kids are still plowing their way through the My First Piano Adventure books.

My goodness, what makes you think this is addressed to you? I was aiming at the other 50 teachers here who haven't bothered to read the basic instructions.

PS Happy New Year to you as well.

I've been saying this for years.

For instance, although I do not like Thompson, most of all for the over-fingered music, but I successfully used it with one particular adult student who was emotionally attached to it, from childhood, and I got "the job done" (regarding reading) by removing all finger numbers, mixing in other materials, etc. And eventually she chose to move away from Thompson because other things worked better.

The fact is that method books are tools, as are all theory books, all workbooks, all scale books, all etude books, etc. Tools are only as good as what they are used for, and they are only effective in the right hands.

Most important: five year-olds, even those close to six, differ so hugely in emotional, physical and social development that making any kind of general statements as to how to teach them is going to misfire.

Which is why it is SO important to keep communication open with the TEACHER!

I never read them! <blush>

LOL

And Happy New Year, John.

Well, I just spoke for all the 50 people you just yelled at. Not all of these 50 people post in the teachers forum primarily and so my reasons still stand for not being able to use the sig line to give people an entire autobiography.

I am personally surprised at the number of parents that post questions on this forum to the effect of " why is my kids teacher (fill in the blank) ?"

Sadly, seems to be an element of mistrust ( or something) on the parents side..

Yes, or not wanting to ask the teacher because...what, they'd be offended that you asked a question? Perhaps if you asked it rudely or simply told them that they weren't teaching the way you think they should, but I'm sure people can think of a polite way to communicate their questions and concerns to their teacher.

As a teacher, I have no problems answering questions. In fact, I enjoy it! It helps me to understand where the family is coming from, what their expectations are, what the student enjoys playing, etc., all of which help me to teach the child better. When a parent fails to communicate, then I do not have all of these things to go on and just have the one half hour a week and whatever time I get to speak with the parents around lesson time.

In the last couple of years, I actually have more problems dealing with parents than with students. It's not just mistrust, but lack of cooperation with me, lack of communication, and lack of parenting skills.

Of course, I'm not saying ALL parents are horrible. Just stating a general observation.

I seriously doubt that. But if the shoe fits, wear it. Frank has posted the requirements for pros and if you are one, you'll figure out a way to follow them.

Well, if you think people have been violating forum rules, feel free to notify the mod. I'm sure they don't need your assistance in keeping people in line by shouting from atop a "soap box". Had they felt the need for that, they would have made you a mod.

Dear teachers:

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer my questions about private piano lessons. I now have good information to use as the basis for discussions with our piano teacher. I assure you that there is no trust issue involved. I don't play piano myself, however, I do sit in on each of my daughter's lessons and also make sure that my daughter practices at least 45 min per day (our teacher requires 20 min practice time per day). I am just trying to understand the teaching methods of various teachers. Our kids grow up so quickly and this time is precious, so we have to make the most of what we have. Again, thanks to everyone for the valuable feedback. I am grateful for it.

Regards;
Lily

If you have time to put all this in your sig:

It would not be a big deal to add the fact that you are teaching, which you are, correct?

It doesn't matter if you are only teaching a couple people, by the way. Or a few. You may soon be an excellent teacher. You may *already* be an excellent teacher.

But I do think it is a fair observation to point out that those of us who have been teaching a lot of people for a long time tend to be very careful about rating the quality or effectiveness of a teacher based on the perspective of a parent writing about lessons in a forum, when the teacher is not around to defend himself/herself.

And I'm not saying you are doing that. But I do think that is the thrust of what most of us are saying.

Do you disagree?

I don't see why you need to know whether or not I teach since I'm not a music industry pro (and have never ever attempted or will attempt to promote my "business" because I have no business). My signature adheres to the primary forum in which I post: pianist corner. What I did here was to tell the OP about what I do with the one five year old that I teach. I don't see why I need to put that in my sig and why that changes anything at all. I'll tell you this: I don't intend to put that in my signature because "I am a piano teacher" is inaccurate. I might be a piano teacher in the making. Also, I'm primarily a piano student. I think I make more sense than some "experienced" teachers here (which you yourself apparently agreed with a couple of weeks ago via PM), so I don't feel disclaimers (about my lack of teaching experience) are all that necessary because you guys should know enough by now to judge my posts without having to know my life story. Btw, why do you have to judge all my posts? As for the parent, when I give advice, I do mention most of the time that I teach only a couple of people. So they get that info as well. I seriously don't understand what this fuss is all about.

I do not necessarily disagree but I do think that teachers here are unnecessarily defensive of their "brotherhood" (or sisterhood). Nobody said that this teacher was bad. All we said was the parent had a legitimate question and needed to talk to the teacher about it. All I did was to give her information about the kinds of things I do with my student. Whether or not those things are good, the OP can decide for him/herself. All you did was to say "TALK TO THE TEACHER". The difference between our posts was that I gave the OP my reasons for saying so, that's all. So what's the issue here?

I said, if I remember correctly, something about piano teachers spending too much time complaining about having students "stolen" and not enough time in becoming better teachers.

I often have dissenting opinions, but I was in a very irritated mood that day and did not want to provoke people, because my words get very harsh when I am not feeling well.

For the record, I thought many of your ideas re teaching were very good.

My suggestion that you might add "teacher" to your sig was a suggestion. Nothing more.

One point I wanted to make, which I still think is valid, is that in forums we often get only one side of a story.

In this particular case there may have been no damage done, but in other threads damage *has* been done by having relatively new students being told that their teachers are not teaching correctly because what is going on in lessons is misreported.

I see all sorts of distortions in this forum, sometimes by teachers, sometimes by students. I'm sure on bad days some of the distortions come from me.

As for a "brotherhood of teachers", yes, I do think this is a valid point. But I'm not part of that brotherhood (or sisterhood). I am a part of no organizations, allied with no teacher, loyal to no teaching system or method.

If I were giving out extremely bad advice, then I'd see the point about including the fact that I'm not a professional teacher either in my sig or with every single post I make here. In any case, I agree with the rest of your post.

Quality over quantity..... Some teachers gave tons of materials, but they do not have time to teach thoroughly. It is the same case like the guy who purported that he can play all of the Beethoven Sonatas, but not one is decent.

I thought you were sure that was intentional on that guy's part.