I came across this fascinating article on NPR that has implications for the perennial question of whether we can hear the differences among "higher" and "lesser" quality pianos:

Double blind test of whether violinists can accurately pick out a Stradivarius

The bottom line is that in a double-blind test where professional violinists played six violins (2 Strads, 1 other old Italian, 3 new), only 3 of the 17 musicians were able to identify the Strad accurately.

At least now I feel a bit better about losing at just about every "identify the piano brand" thread that's come along.

Well, I surprised myself by guessing correctly which (of the two in the test) was the Strad.

As my judgment in pianos goes, I'm very modest. I break into a cold sweat trying to judge among very good instruments. There are just so many good ones out there.

But I helped pick out a new Steinway D (out of five offered) for a New York concert space recently (along with another pianist), and though it took a couple of hours, the winner was clear. But it helped to have another pianist there so we could both play and listen to each other, and bounce comments back and forth.

There are very few, if any, Stradivarius instruments which bear much resemblance to the instrument that Stradivarius made. Their necks have been stretched, their fingerboards changed, their strings are much different, their bridges changed, their bass bars replaced, and sometimes even the tops were replaced. Old instruments generally reflect what has happened to them more than their makers at some point.

I am with BDB here.

As no two strads are alike by far how could one in a blind test pick the strads out of 7 violins.

If a violinist is given the opportunity to select a top violin before e.g. a major violin competition - this happens nearly every time the 'Quuen Elsabeth Competition' is organized - rest assured the violinist will always pick the best. Yes for sure what is the best to him but still always much better than the standard commercial modern violin he has been playing so far.

schwammerl.

What someone picks as the best instrument will probably not always be the same instrument that everyone else may pick as the best. It may not even be the best instrument the same person chose the last time that person chose the best instrument! There are unquantifiable qualities that are as important as those we can measure.

Interesting.

I’ve played the guitar (or at least tried ) as far back as I could remember. I never had a quality instrument until I was grown and married and had a decent job. With that said, over the years I've found that, quite often, when I played with other guitar players who had Gibsons and Martins, my cheap, no-name brand guitar sounded about as good as theirs (if not better).

Moral of the story… if you got the money, go for the best! If not, play the best you can with what you got.

Rick

I've often gotten comments about how good my violin was, with people thinking it's thousands of dollars. It's actually the same violin I had when I was in middle school, $200 tops, made by some VMSA student.

Interesting. I've often wondered how much a person's prevailing notions colors their final selection process. My son (quite an accomplished guitar player himself) recently noted much the same as what you've stated above. Over the holidays we were discussing the value of an older guitar and "which brand is best" came up for discussion. He said that after considerable time spent comparing top line brands, he found the best sounding guitar was consistently made under a name considered mass-produced. It would surprise me if it weren't the same for other musical instruments.

I've been involved in two such blind tests with pianos. The first was very informal and happened at a piano shop where a retailer I know with a devilish sense of humor had me sit at his desk away from the floor and identify four pianos that he played (same sample / maybe 30 seconds). He gave me the four names before. All I had to do was place the right piano name on each sample. He went through the playing procedure twice.

I got hung up on my directional hearing (which is poor). I kind of knew his floorplan, so I was trying to make an aural connection. I wondered too what he might be doing to trick me. It's sort of like taking an ETS multiple-choice thing where you get hung up on whether the obvious answer is too obvious and one of the distractors begins to look appetizing.

I got only one piano right.

When I had another chance later, the potential for embarrassment was greater because it was more formal and the participants were supposed to be pianists with seasoned ears. I carried into that test the memory of my previous failure and got hung up all over again on the idea that what I instinctively thought must somehow be wrong. It was a nerve-wracking experience and my results were awful.

I think Joe Kubera's comment about having a couple of hours is pertinent. If nothing else, that would settle the nerves and take away the urgency.

'Sounds like you had both hands tied behind your back. Might it not have been a better test if you literally were blindfolded and led to the pianos and played them yourself?

OK--it might be tough to distinguish certain Mason & Hamlins from certain Steinways but I bet you could have separated a cheap spinet from a decent upright from a quality small grand from a top-notch grand over 6 feet. I have a friend who knows wine. She can always tell a bad bottle from an OK bottle from a good bottle from a great bottle. She can't name the brand or the year. I think hearing the difference in pianos with large differences in quality can be done rather easily. Separating Kia's from Hundai's or Ferrari's from Maserati's on the basis of sound alone might be asking too much of us mere mortals, no?

To me the question has always been very interesting and IMHO can be answered closest in terms of "instant connection" between player and instrument.

90% of people trying a piano are reading the name first and often come to a "conclusion" at that moment. Their opinion is also often connected to "price" with a high price tag usually getting quickest attention.

The industry has always known that "prejudgments" is where things are at and played this to the hilt.

It's nice that today people can try all kinds of different "coffees" out there.

By the way, I like one that's great but not really terribly expensive.....

Norbert

The first time I had the "opportunity" to play a very famous brand, the name was on the fallboard and the price displayed. I had very high expectations. I was quite underwhelmed.

I suppose some people get pleasure from identifying with a name, others get it from a satisfying instrument, whatever the name is.

However, I believe it's important to hear and feel what an excellent piano IS capable of, then weigh the differences between that and what one can afford.

The first 'test' had me at a desk facing away from the salesfloor. There was no need of a blindfold or being tied up. There was a small wager involved and I was on my honor not to cheat. I didn't.

The second test had a group of us seated in a small auditorium kind of setting. We each had one of those little black masks that people who are sensitive to light wear for sleep.

In both cases all pianos were mid-sized grands. In the first 'test' they were all expensive. In the second test there was an expensive European, an expensive American, an artist-level Japanese and a cheaper Korean ( a Conover stencil from Samick). The Conover fooled almost everyone. It sounded quite nice.

I'd like to think I could pick a cheapo spinet out of a pack of good grands, but all the same, based on my experience, I'm not looking for opportunities to prove it.

In choosing a piano to buy, it would be ridiculous to wear a blindfold or have your hands tied behind your back. The action is usually the deal maker or breaker for me, and the name on the fallboard stands for something in my book, either reassurance or doubt.

If you want to be a race car driver, you need to get behind the wheel of a race car.

Pianos are unique musical instruments in that no matter who pushes the key, it will sound the same. A young beginning student 'will' sound better on a better piano. Just as professional pianist's (who are paid by the note) can maneuver around sharp turns and speedy straight a-way's in an expanded dynamic range.

The best pianos display a quality of sustain that is balanced between the top and bottom registers; and they are able to maintain this quality and balance through a large dynamic range.

I think the real test, for any player, is to play on a well designed piano for 6 months, (if you play regularly), and then take your music to an assortment of pianos.

There are only a few pianos that I remember clearly,

One was a Steinway concert grand that I played at the dealership; it was "new", in the sense that it had been used by the Cincinnati Symphony and returned to the dealership, so it was obviously a top-of-the line instrument. I also played the semi-concert grand that was across from it (the only two pianos in that room), and I found the semi-concert grand to be a more preferable instrument in my mind, because I didnt have any concern that it could be damaged.
At that dealership I also played a Yamaha that was a bit over 6 feet, and it had the most amazing bass I have ever heard. I swear that piano could build resonance and volume forever, it was beautiful. The midrange and treble were about average for a piano that size. I went back a few months later, mostly so I could see that piano again and give the Essex's a better evaluation. I was able to identify that particular Yamaha from the few almost-identical pianos around it (3 other Yamahas a few inches bigger or smaller), and confirmed it when the dealer told the same story about where the piano came from. That one had fallen slightly out of tune, but the bass was still very good. Someone at Yamaha worked real magic into that piano. I'm thinking that I could go back again this weekend and see how it's doing; if so, I hope its been treated well and doesnt disapoint.


There was an hour-long TV documentary called The Mystery Of The Stradivarius, and the first part is available at http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTcyNzcyNDA=.html (its the Chinese version of Youtube, and is a bit slow to load)

a metal violin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eHffhP4xzE&feature=related

the best violin ever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUO6kYLb6As (jump to 30 seconds into the video for the violin to start, it becomes amazing at 1 minute, and it will change your life at 2 and a half minutes)


Back to pianos. Some day I want to spend a few hours at a piano dealership with a musically-inclined friend and a blindfold, to see how much we can really distinguish by sound and feel.