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#1818419 - 01/04/12 01:46 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11506
Loc: Canada
Actually I think the thread should be read, period. If not that, at least the post being responded to should be read, understood, and reread before responding. How often do we see advice on things that are assumed rather than stated? And how often are these four words missing, "What do you mean?"

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#1819073 - 01/05/12 12:27 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4413
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...But there is a certain tendency to vent ones impatience and coarser instincts online and save the better behavior for Real Life."

I know. It's so hard to be nice--- when you're not. I'm not guessing; I've been told, straight up.

The exact famous quotation escapes me, but it goes something like, "A person's true quality is revealed by what they do in private, even more than when they think someone is watching."
_________________________
Clef


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#1819147 - 01/05/12 02:46 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Here are some things to think about. This is not meant to be anything other than that, and I hope that many of you already know these things. smile

If you are offended by something someone else says, or feel the need to argue, perhaps you are feeling that your identity is being threatened.

What is your identity... Musician? Teacher? Parent? Student?

Do you feel that as a (fill in the blank from above) your opinion is important and must be heard? It gives you a sense of validation and helps you feel significant right? It gives meaning to who you are?

But who are you really? Can you ask yourself who you are? Who is doing the asking? You? How can you ask yourself something? Are there two of you? One who asks and one who answers? This is ridiculous right? Of course! There is only one you. The one who is conscious. And that is all you are... consciousness.

You are not a musician, teacher, parent, student, etc. Those are things that you do. If you believe you are anything other than just pure consciousness, or you are offended by what I am saying, then you are not YOU. You are trapped in your ego, which is the "false self". The mind. The REAL you is not your mind or your thinking. The REAL you is the consciousness that is aware of your mind and thinking.

Knowing this can begin to set you free. You won't need to be offended anymore. You can still argue, but from a place where there is no need to defend yourself, because you are a conscious being who's purpose is to allow the universe to experience itself. You are not separate from the universe, you are connected to everything and everyone. Your opinions are not what define you, they are thoughts you possess that are based on your experiences of the universe. They are worth sharing, to help others, but are not for defending yourself. There is no "self" to defend.

None of these ideas are my own, and none of them are new. They all come from people much wiser than I am. I am in no way claiming to be an expert on anything, or better than anyone. If anything I have said offends you, it is not meant to do so. Rather, I am just trying to help others by sharing ideas that I have found to be helpful for me. Explaining what I am attempting to explain is very difficult, so I apologize if it is not easily understood. We all have issues, myself included. But I believe there is a way to a better world, and that it begins with knowing who we REALLY are. That is why I took the time to write all of this.

Maybe someday there won't be a need for a thread like this. cool

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas to add to what I've said, please share. I am eager to learn.

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#1819189 - 01/05/12 04:14 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
neildradford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 148
Loc: United Kingdom
Deep man...deep.
_________________________
Venables & Son Custom 133 Upright Acoustic Piano
Yamaha DGX-640 Digital Piano
Started learning: October 2011
Started lessons: January 2012
YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/user/neildradford

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#1819258 - 01/05/12 06:11 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Scott Coletta]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3335
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta


If you are offended by something someone else says,


For me it's less like i'm offended and more like my time is being wasted trawling through other people's arguments. I come here for the wisdom and experience, but I need to sift through the chaff too.

And the negativity and aggression does me no good.

I see now that I need to absolutely stop 'hanging around' here - stop browsing and stop replying to threads just because I have something to offer. If I have a problem, I can come and ask a question.
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#1819277 - 01/05/12 06:49 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4726
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs

For me it's less like i'm offended and more like my time is being wasted trawling through other people's arguments.

thumb
The negativity comes in "waves", and so do the good posts.

That's life, I guess. Nothing is "even", from day to day. <weak smile>


Edited by Gary D. (01/05/12 06:55 PM)
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Piano Teacher

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#1819294 - 01/05/12 07:27 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Gary D.]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5397
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Gary D.
The negativity comes in "waves", and so do the good posts.


But there used to be more actual teachers in this forum who have been teaching for long periods of time. The questions raised were vastly more interesting, and the solutions offered were enlightening, even if they come from a completely different perspective (e.g., jazz vs. classical). Remember Betty? She was extremely giving as a poster, sharing lots of her own strategies that came from decades of teaching.

What I see more and more is a lot of posturing, and not very many helpful ideas.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1819306 - 01/05/12 07:59 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Scott Coletta]
Jeani-Martini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 42
Loc: Land of Astro Turf, CA
Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Way too many egos amongst musicians smile.


This ^^
_________________________
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Q: What's the difference between the second violins and the violas?
A: About three half-steps.
ba-da-BOOM!

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#1819359 - 01/05/12 09:46 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Scott Coletta]
polyphasicpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 1238
Sorry in advance. (The Philosopher in me kicked in)

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Here are some things to think about. This is not meant to be anything other than that, and I hope that many of you already know these things. smile

If you are offended by something someone else says, or feel the need to argue, perhaps you are feeling that your identity is being threatened.


Or perhaps I feel the need to correct an error in someone's logic.

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
What is your identity... Musician? Teacher? Parent? Student?

None of the above. I am a Human Being: "An animal so lost in rapturous contemplation of what I think, as to overlook what I indubitably ought to be." (From the Devil's Dictionary)

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

Do you feel that as a (fill in the blank from above) your opinion is important and must be heard? It gives you a sense of validation and helps you feel significant right? It gives meaning to who you are?


I feel truth is important, and if someone states something fallacious I shall point it out, regardless how that makes them feel.

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

But who are you really? Can you ask yourself who you are? Who is doing the asking? You? How can you ask yourself something? Are there two of you? One who asks and one who answers? This is ridiculous right? Of course! There is only one you. The one who is conscious. And that is all you are... consciousness.


I actually agree with this, but I suspect it is for very different reasons.

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

You are not a musician, teacher, parent, student, etc. Those are things that you do.


Then why are they nouns?

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

If you believe you are anything other than just pure consciousness, or you are offended by what I am saying, then you are not YOU. You are trapped in your ego, which is the "false self".


How can pure consciousness be trapped? And the notion of a "false self" implies that I am being someone other than myself and not able to know it. I can't even conceive of how that could be possible.

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

The mind. The REAL you is not your mind or your thinking. The REAL you is the consciousness that is aware of your mind and thinking.


Consciousness is nothing but a stream of thought, my stream of thought is equivalent to my thinking and is also equivelent to my mind. Thus, you are making an analytical error. Whether I am consciously reflecting on my own thought or reflecting on what I am going to have for supper, I am reflecting. I am no less real in either case.

I think what you were trying to get at here was the notion of awareness of ones own Awareness (vis-à-vis Descartes). But if you make this the basis for a person's reality, then when they contemplate supper instead of their own awareness, they technically don't exist. That doesn't seem right.

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

Knowing this can begin to set you free. You won't need to be offended anymore. You can still argue, but from a place where there is no need to defend yourself, because you are a conscious being who's purpose is to allow the universe to experience itself.


How can the universe experience itself? And why is my purpose to let the universe do this? Surely there is nothing I can do stop it even if I wanted to?

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

You are not separate from the universe, you are connected to everything and everyone.


But you said I could be set free? How can I be free if I am connected to everything and everyone?

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

Your opinions are not what define you, they are thoughts you possess that are based on your experiences of the universe.


You can't possess a thought, because we are nothing but consciousness, remember. We are nothing but thought.

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta

None of these ideas are my own, and none of them are new. They all come from people much wiser than I am.


I don't mean to sound offensive Scott, but I feel it is my duty to tell you that there is no wisdom in these ideas. They are more poetic than they are wise.

I can definitely empathise with your search for meaning and would like to recommend the following

George Berkely - Three Dialogues Between Hylas and Philonous

David Hume: Treatise on Human Nature

Leo Tolstoy - War and Peace

Fyodor Dostoyevsky - The Brothers Karamazov

Heavy reading to be sure, but worthwhile if you take the time to really digest it. Now I am off to supper.

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#1819386 - 01/05/12 10:22 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
liszt85 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 3159
There used to be many teachers offering the right ideas and advice here. I find these days that some "teachers" offer completely wrong ideas and advice. Its good to have a good balance here with some sensible "non-teachers" stepping in to point out those nonsensical posts because I believe teachers have a tendency not to call out other teachers' faults. So its definitely good for this forum to have a balance between teachers and non-teachers. Just my opinion, of course.
_________________________
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Debussy: Danseuses de Delphes (Prelude 1, Book 1)
Next in line:
Chopin: Ballade No. 1 in G minor, Op.23
Debussy: Le vent dans la plaine (Prelude 3, Book 1)
Debussy: Les sons et les parfums tournent dans l'air du soir (Prelude 4, Book 1)

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#1819478 - 01/06/12 01:43 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5190
Loc: Europe
A few things from my experience (which should be rather big being a mod in various big forums)...

1. I don't see many trolls here in PW! Yes they do come from time to time, but very fast they are kicked out, not only from the mods, but also from the community itself. Trolls are not a problem, but probably a fun break-time! grin

2. At the same time it seems to me that while the Internet is populated by 13 year olds who use l33t sp33ch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet), PW is populated by 'normal' people and actually quite older than the average... :-/ (I think).

3. The manners issue is here for a few reasons: One is that this IS the internet (kevin already mentioned that I think). The other is that exactly because of the general average age of this forum members things get a bit more personal (it's much easier to let go when you're a high school student, rather than being a successful professional in your field).

Other than that, I'd like to state that I live in Greece (most of you should know that), and to complain about the negativity and misery that has conquered the whole world! :'( And it IS tiring to have to deal with that online, offline, real life or in the dream world! And exhausting actually!
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#1819549 - 01/06/12 07:38 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Don't you think for the "most part" that manners are pretty good? I do. When things do turn sideways, it seems like it is the same people pushing buttons or something to make things twist to their own liking or, just to see what they can get out of it. Most often, the forums tend to police themselves too.
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1819554 - 01/06/12 07:58 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11344
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I agree, Jerry. I think that most people here are respectful. I tend to post very directly, and that is how I talk in real life too. I say what's on my mind, but I don't get out my claws unless I perceive someone is being disrespectful to me or other regulars here. I have been on several other forums and have seen some pretty nasty things being said without reason, whereas I know if that same conversation were had face to face, those things would not be said. It's just the nature of the beast.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
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#1819559 - 01/06/12 08:23 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i too think this forum is pretty polite.

I find (here in central USA) that the manners of kids are absolutely non existent.. they are nice, respectful but have not been taught how to say hello, thank you, introduce.

sooo.. i teach my kids' friends.

I answer the phone and they say - hi... and then silence. so i have to ask "is this Veronica?'

(now she is Russian and might have a different way of communicating on the phone and her parents both speak English as a 2nd language)...

so then I say. "hello Mrs. S... this is Veronica.. may I speak with Klara? or is Klara there?.." and they repeat it and laugh. you know, they learn after a while.. One of them has a facebook page called Klara's mother's manners.. it's pretty cute how they learn and make fun of me at the same time.

anyway, manners make life smooth and pleasant.

I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone with this tangential post. Sorry, i don't use capitals.. Microsoft Word automatically puts them in and makes my business writing easier. .. and grammar and punctuation? what are those?

have a nice day.
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accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1819560 - 01/06/12 08:24 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3145
Loc: Virginia, USA
I've been here since 2004.

I have not perceived any significant difference in either expertise or manners over that time.

Individuals skilled (or the reverse) at either area come and go, but the community remains relatively stable.

In my opinion.

Which you are free to disagree with, without any risk of hurting my feelings! Hee, hee.
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gotta go practice

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#1819571 - 01/06/12 09:00 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: polyphasicpianist]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
I feel truth is important, and if someone states something fallacious I shall point it out, regardless how that makes them feel.


Are you married? wink

As my Grandma used to say: everything you say should be true, kind, and necessary, but two out of three will do at a pinch. That a statement is true is not, by itself, sufficient reason to state it.

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#1819579 - 01/06/12 09:18 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: kevinb]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3145
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: kevinb
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
I feel truth is important, and if someone states something fallacious I shall point it out, regardless how that makes them feel.


Are you married? wink

As my Grandma used to say: everything you say should be true, kind, and necessary, but two out of three will do at a pinch. That a statement is true is not, by itself, sufficient reason to state it.



Truth (not sure I like the word - almost implies a Biblical infallibility on the part of the speaker, and a corresponding sinful lack thereof on the part of the receiver) but I digress.

Truth or opinion can usually be exressed in a tactful manner, or an offensive manner.

Part of the problem is that some opinion (I'm giving up on the truth word) can be expressed in a tactful manner yet perceived as offensive.

Another part of the problem is that some people will use truth (and here I DO use the word) as license to express in an offensive manner.

The solution is for imparters of truth to write as if their mother would read it, and receivers to be as thickskinned as warranted.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#1819582 - 01/06/12 09:26 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Brent H Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 843
When a father presents his infant to you and says "Isn't she beautiful?" it may well be that the baby is in fact hideously ugly. No reasonable person would take the "truth" of the baby's ugliness as a requirement to respond "Heck no, that's the ugliest baby I've ever seen". Most of us would either say nothing or make an oblique comment like "You must be very pround of her".

But I guarantee if the baby's picture were presented online instead of in person, one or more individuals hiding behind anonymous screen names would feel "obliged" to inform the father exactly how unattractive that infant appears to themselves.
_________________________
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#1819584 - 01/06/12 09:32 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Brent H]
neildradford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 148
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Brent H
When a father presents his infant to you and says "Isn't she beautiful?" it may well be that the baby is in fact hideously ugly. No reasonable person would take the "truth" of the baby's ugliness as a requirement to respond "Heck no, that's the ugliest baby I've ever seen". Most of us would either say nothing or make an oblique comment like "You must be very pround of her".

But I guarantee if the baby's picture were presented online instead of in person, one or more individuals hiding behind anonymous screen names would feel "obliged" to inform the father exactly how unattractive that infant appears to themselves.


Your post has had me nodding my head in total agreement. Good post and well said.
_________________________
Venables & Son Custom 133 Upright Acoustic Piano
Yamaha DGX-640 Digital Piano
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Started lessons: January 2012
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#1819587 - 01/06/12 09:37 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Brent H]
kevinb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 1565
Originally Posted By: Brent H
But I guarantee if the baby's picture were presented online instead of in person, one or more individuals hiding behind anonymous screen names would feel "obliged" to inform the father exactly how unattractive that infant appears to themselves.


Quite so -- and resisting the temptation to do just that is one of the reasons I never conceal my real identity on on-line forums.

But we've been here before, I think. That anonymity leads to an increase in the amount of impolite and ill-considered posting seems quite obvious to me, but many people contest this.

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#1819596 - 01/06/12 10:09 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: kevinb]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3145
Loc: Virginia, USA
Does this dress make me look fat?

Honest but incomplete answer: No.

Truthful answer: No, dear, I don't think it's the dress.
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gotta go practice

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#1819599 - 01/06/12 10:13 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11344
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
I think when people talk about "truth" they're talking about being honest. In the above scenario with the ugly baby (and yes, there are some, although they often work it out as they get older, and some see the miracle of life itself as beauty), I would agree that refraining from being honest in that case is probably better, or finding something they can say in all honesty that would not be offensive. For example, "She has her father's nose!"
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#1819635 - 01/06/12 11:20 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: polyphasicpianist]
Scott Coletta Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/07/11
Posts: 514
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: polyphasicpianist
Sorry in advance. (The Philosopher in me kicked in)

Originally Posted By: Scott Coletta
Here are some things to think about. This is not meant to be anything other than that, and I hope that many of you already know these things. smile

If you are offended by something someone else says, or feel the need to argue, perhaps you are feeling that your identity is being threatened.


Or perhaps I feel the need to correct an error in someone's logic...

How can pure consciousness be trapped? And the notion of a "false self" implies that I am being someone other than myself and not able to know it. I can't even conceive of how that could be possible...

Consciousness is nothing but a stream of thought, my stream of thought is equivalent to my thinking and is also equivelent to my mind. Thus, you are making an analytical error. Whether I am consciously reflecting on my own thought or reflecting on what I am going to have for supper, I am reflecting. I am no less real in either case.

I think what you were trying to get at here was the notion of awareness of ones own Awareness (vis-à-vis Descartes). But if you make this the basis for a person's reality, then when they contemplate supper instead of their own awareness, they technically don't exist. That doesn't seem right...

You can't possess a thought, because we are nothing but consciousness, remember. We are nothing but thought...


For those of you who might find themselves more in alignment with polyphasic's arguments from the quoted post, and have an interest in delving deeper into the ideas discussed (I know this kind of stuff isn't for everyone smile ) I offer this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4ugppcRUE

It's about an hour long so be in the mood to relax and absorb.

And for a more accessible (not as scientific as the above) and far more in-depth discussion, check out A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle. There is a pdf version online.


And thanks polyphasic for the suggested reading. I've previously read Hume's Treatise On Human Nature, and I may have encountered parts of the others at some point during one of my philosophy courses in college, but I'll look into them.

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#1819647 - 01/06/12 11:53 AM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11506
Loc: Canada
There are some other angles to all this. I've been shuttling back and forth between PW and fielding member concerns as moderator of a forum of another profession. A lot of things are similar.

You've got people who have invested a lot of effort to get to where they are, sometimes a lifetime. There are teachers, musicians (oft both) and amateur and professional musicians as well as students. As professionals, reputation matters and there is professional pride. But also as human beings. It is easy to think that your worth is being attacked when your ideas are rejected, and there is a certain sensitivity. And some people actually do attack the person himself: bad musician, poor teacher, ignorant student or parent.

There is also an investment in beliefs and ideas. What we do is based on our beliefs in how things work, so if those beliefs are questioned we may feel like we have "no leg to stand on" (and will fall down). And decades of amassing all this would have been a waste of time. Besides, it has worked. So there is reason to be disturbed, insulted, etc. Though people who have mastered their craft to a very high degree have often learned that there are many sides to things, and remain open to learning their entire life. Pavarotti at the end of his life, "I am still a student."

Then there is the stage similar to the fresh graduate from university with a degree, stuffed full of studies that told us exactly how things work. It's only a first stage. A bit later you learn there are exceptions to what you studied, you may get to question whether anything you ever learned was right, and finally realize that it was all an approximation of reality. That's maybe when you're with the veteran who is newly flexible as above. But for the moment the "fresh graduate" type of person (a mentality - not literal) tends to be rigid and dogmatic. He tends to preach to others, and be intolerant and critical of "failings". It is an idealism borne of a lot of knowledge, but maybe not enough. At times this thorn in the side might be good for getting jaded world-weariness a wake-up call.

And then in forums you get careless dabblers who mess around with what these others have worked so hard at. You also get exploiters - people putting on the mantle of teacher and promising fast results for a buck, and the inevitable exploited who believe them and defend them with misearned loyalty.

And then there are people who are simply jerks.

That's the mix we get in forums like this.

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#1819669 - 01/06/12 12:34 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: ten left thumbs]
neildradford Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 148
Loc: United Kingdom
I think you get that mix in life, not just forums
_________________________
Venables & Son Custom 133 Upright Acoustic Piano
Yamaha DGX-640 Digital Piano
Started learning: October 2011
Started lessons: January 2012
YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/user/neildradford

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#1819676 - 01/06/12 12:49 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: neildradford]
piano joy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 807
Loc: Florida
Quote from Keystring:
"It is an idealism borne of a lot of knowledge, but maybe not enough."



I would change that to read, "...borne of a lot of knowledge, but not enough wisdom".


The latter only comes with experience and age....
_________________________
I don't care too much for money. For money can't buy me love.
-the Beatles




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#1819718 - 01/06/12 02:23 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: TimR]
Ann in Kentucky Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: TimR
Does this dress make me look fat?

Honest but incomplete answer: No.

Truthful answer: No, dear, I don't think it's the dress.


grin
_________________________
piano teacher

"She played upon her music box
a fancy air by chance,
And straightaway all her polka dots
began a lively dance."
-- Peter Newell

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#1819757 - 01/06/12 03:55 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Brent H]
Jerry Groot RPT Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6828
Loc: Grand Rapids Michigan
Originally Posted By: Brent H
When a father presents his infant to you and says "Isn't she beautiful?" it may well be that the baby is in fact hideously ugly. No reasonable person would take the "truth" of the baby's ugliness as a requirement to respond "Heck no, that's the ugliest baby I've ever seen". Most of us would either say nothing or make an oblique comment like "You must be very pround of her".

But I guarantee if the baby's picture were presented online instead of in person, one or more individuals hiding behind anonymous screen names would feel "obliged" to inform the father exactly how unattractive that infant appears to themselves.


I was sitting here cracking up because, many years ago, one of my wife's friends sent her a baby picture in the mail. She was one proud mother. What for, neither of us could figure out.... I swear to GOD that baby looked identical to a baby monkey!!! Ears and all! We put the picture in a drawer for whenever we had "bad days." We would open up the drawer, look at the picture, bust a gut and then feel better again. Thank GOD she did not ask us what we thought of the picture!!! I probably would have said something cute like "what a cute little monkey!!"
_________________________
Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.

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#1819775 - 01/06/12 04:43 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: apple*]
SingSong Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 01 2013


Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 56
Loc: Missouri, USA
Originally Posted By: apple*
i too think this forum is pretty polite.

I find (here in central USA) that the manners of kids are absolutely non existent.. they are nice, respectful but have not been taught how to say hello, thank you, introduce.

sooo.. i teach my kids' friends.

I answer the phone and they say - hi... and then silence. so i have to ask "is this Veronica?'

(now she is Russian and might have a different way of communicating on the phone and her parents both speak English as a 2nd language)...

so then I say. "hello Mrs. S... this is Veronica.. may I speak with Klara? or is Klara there?.." and they repeat it and laugh. you know, they learn after a while.. One of them has a facebook page called Klara's mother's manners.. it's pretty cute how they learn and make fun of me at the same time.

anyway, manners make life smooth and pleasant.

I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone with this tangential post. Sorry, i don't use capitals.. Microsoft Word automatically puts them in and makes my business writing easier. .. and grammar and punctuation? what are those?

have a nice day.


Doesn't it make you wonder why these kids don't know how to make a phone call?

You haven't offended me, for one! I have used pretty much a carbon copy of what you described when getting a call from one of my children's friends. I've been told by my kids that their friends are afraid of me because I'm mean! I can only conclude that my low-rumbling voice works better on dogs than on kids frown

As for this forum, I think it's very polite compared to other sites I've browsed. All I've seen so far is that sometimes people choose to misunderstand each other on purpose or due to neglect (as in commenting on a post without reading more than the first sentence).
_________________________
Unrealistic expectations:
Beethoven rondo op 51 no 1
Mozart Sonata No. 7 in C major
Beethoven OP 27 No 1

Absolutely must do:
Learn to sight read
Learn music theory
Re-learn ONE piece to at least almost perfection. (Mary had a little lamb?)


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#1819860 - 01/06/12 06:56 PM Re: whatever happened to manners? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4726
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Jerry Groot RPT
Don't you think for the "most part" that manners are pretty good? I do. When things do turn sideways, it seems like it is the same people pushing buttons or something to make things twist to their own liking or, just to see what they can get out of it. Most often, the forums tend to police themselves too.

thumb
Things get unbearable (think duelling flame-throwers) when person A gets in a war with person B, and both A and B know very little, always harp on the same subject, and all the rest of us get driven out of the room (or building) by the heat. smile
_________________________
Piano Teacher

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