Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Yamaha vs Pearl River...advice please

Hello all,

Would like some advice and feedback. My wife and I are looking at two different pianos. The first is a 1979 Yamaha U1 built in Japan, serial #H2945492. The other one is a brand new Pearl River GP 148, serial #1180385.

I know...very different pianos. One is 32 years old, the other is brand new. One is an upright, the other a petite grand.

Both are being sold by the same dealer and they were kind enough to deliver both to our home to help us decide. The Pearl River is $1,800 more than the Yamaha. The Yamaha has been professionally tuned its entire life by the previous one owner. She traded it in for a new Yamaha grand.

The Yamaha has a "cleaner/crisper" sound. The Pearl River is more mellow. The Yamaha has obvious name recognition, but what's the reputation of the Pearl River?

I'd like your thoughts on the two. I know it's probably an apples and oranges comparison but wanted to know what the experts think.

Thanks everyone!

Hi, and welcome to the Piano World Forums!

I'm not much on giving advice, and it is worth about as much as it costs!

With that said, the Yamaha U1, though it is 32 years old, it is a professional grade instrument. The PR is a very small, entry level baby grand. About the only advantage I can think of regarding the PR, is the grand action, and perhaps the perception and prestige of owning a baby grand piano; plus, it is new.

The cleaner/crisper tone you mention regarding the U1 is associated with the higher quality instruments vs. entry level instruments; that is not to say that some entry level instruments can't have a cleaner/crisper tone.

I'm sure you’ll get other opinions because we all love to give advice here!!

Good luck, and keep us informed!!

Rick

Hi Dabrador!

The U1 is a grey market piano, so you should get it checked out.

Take care,

Steve

Thanks for the input. I found a Yamaha site that allows you to input a serial number to determine what market it was made for. It said that this particular model was not made for the North American market and thus might develop issues due to a dry environment. In fact, the site states that Yamaha strongly discourages the purchase of one of these used "made for Japan" pianos.

Should that concern us about this U1? Also, what's a gray market U1? How can we determine that? Wouldn't the dealer be able to tell that?

Lots of questions...

Greetings,

Are you planning to spend a lot of time on the piano? If you only use it sparingly, then the grand is better because it looks better. Unless the Yamaha is really worn and in bad condition, I can say with almost certainty that the Yamaha has better sound than the PR. So the decision comes down to "looks versus sound". If you or anyone just play the piano casually without getting serious, then the grand is a better choice. DP

The Yamaha is in excellent condition...in fact, it looks new. My wife and I will probably play on a regular basis. She's more accomplished than me and I'd like to begin lessons.

Should I worry about that "not made for North American market" issue?

Dab,

Grey market means simply that the piano was not distributed for sale in the US market, but has been imported here at a later date in a used condition. After 33 years of use (unless it's just reached a US port), IMO it matters little what market it was originally intended for. Your information about one owner since new would indicate it's been here a while -- if the info provided is correct.

Thinking along those lines, if that piano was going to crash here due to wood content not sufficiently dried for our typical indoor climate conditions, it would have done so long ago. I would amend Steve's point that it should be checked out by an independent tech because it's 33 years old, not because it was sold originally in another country.

It would help a lot if you could get a tech who's ready to check for the usual signs of decline in an old Yamaha U. Worn out or rock hard hammers, repetition threads, and bass strings are among the usual culprits.

I assume the dealer's kindness in delivering both pianos to your home means that you are committed to buying one of the two. If you don't want to get into a paid tech inspection and/or worry about the Yamaha's advanced age, go with the Pearl as long as you find the touch and tone acceptable. It's not a current Pearl River product. They replaced it with a GP 150 a while back, slightly longer and quite a bit heavier, so that one's probably been sitting around a while. However, if your dealer is a good established dealer and is ready to stand behind the PR factory warranty, things should work out just fine.

Dabrador: Where are you? If you're in a humid area (e.g., Gulf Coast), it would be crazy to pretend that a gray market piano would give you more trouble than another Yamaha, no matter what Yamaha tells you. If you're in the desert or even a not-so-atypical U.S. environment with central heat causing low humidity in winter with considerably higher internal humidity is summer (e.g., Chicago), then if you're concerned about the humidity issue, you can take care of it with a total DamppChaser--the kind that can both lower and raise humidity. It's about $500.

You haven't mentioned price. The economy is lowering lots of used piano prices. I just sold a 1992 U3 and all I got was $4000 and it was in great shape. (You couldn't do this through a dealer, but you should actually have to pay much less than that for an older U1 through craigslist. Check!)

Many on pianoworld agree that a good upright beats an entry-level baby grand. True, but a 40 year old U1 might still be a fine instrument or might have been beaten to death. Only the tech can sort all that out for you. Good luck!

As said above, particularly if you get an older anything, you really need to pay a tech to go over it before you write the check. (I have no stake in this. I'm not a technician.)

I did a lot of reading on the "grey-market" pianos a while back, and I think you should be fine. I'd want an independent tech to verify the condition, but if it is in good condition, I doubt you'll have any issues.

I'm also not sure the GP 148 is a current PR model. I think (but could be wrong) it was replaced by the GP 150 within the past 2-3 years.

Although I like some PR products (especially my Rit), if you like the sound on the U1, I'd probably go that route here.

Good luck,
Mike

Here's some additional info...

We live in Cincinnati, OH...dry winters, humid summers.

As to the price...the Yamaha is $4400 and the PR is $6200. That's total for both (tax, delivery, tune).

Also, the dealer is giving us full trade in value. For the Yamaha, he is giving us 5 years and the PR he is giving us 10 years.

Concerning the condition of the Yamaha...the dealer states that it has been tuned and cared for professionally for its entire life. He showed me the condition of the hammers and they all have very little indentation on them. He said the previous owner played a style of music that put less pressure on the hammers.

When you look at the Yamaha, it really does look new, inside and out. I might add that the Yamaha also has a "quiet" pedal (the middle one). Was that added on later? I thought I read that the U1 from 1979 didn't come with that.

So, what do you think?

At that price point, I'd much rather buy a new PR T3 upright. It should be priced right in between the two you're looking at. My other recommendation in that range would be a new Kawai K3 upright.

But, between the two you're looking at, I'd still lean toward the U1, as long as an independent tech checked it out and said it was ok.

The fact that the retailer is giving us full trade in value for 5 years, shouldn't that say that the condition of the U1 is good?

To be honest, taking into account current production pianos and their prices as well as grey market used prices, both pianos are significantly overpriced.

The monetary value of trade-up cannot be defined unless the cost of the piano traded up to is established and put in writing at the time of purchase of the first piano. It never is. Because of that, the dealer can manipulate the selling price of the piano traded for to offset any overpayment to you on the trade-in beyond its wholesale value.

$4,400 is WAY too high for a 40-year-old gray market U1. (Though, as others have stated, gray market isn't a big deal, U1s for the American market tend to go for more money--inversely, gray market should sell for less.) Again, I just sold a far newer (1992) far better (American market U3) Yamaha in the Christmas season and all I could get was only $4,000. (In better times, my newer American market U3 would still have only gone for about $4,900, so even before the economy tanked, a measely $500 more than what they're charging you should get you a piano half as old and if not twice as good, close to it (not to knock U1s--then fine work horses that do their job solidly. I had one once and was quite happy with it). DON'T BUY THIS U1. It's way overpriced!

Personally, I'd go with the Yamaha.
I may not know the exact piano's you're dealing with, but on the other hand I may have tried them out months ago (too long ago to remember the specific ones). I live in Cincinnati too, and have probably played every for-sale piano in the city. I don't think I have played a Pearl River that made me think "I'm happier sitting at this piano than I would be at a piano beside it".
My only concern about the Yamaha would be that it may not have as much life left as the Pearl River, simply because it's older. But, for the considerable life that it does have I would expect it to be a superior piano.

It was very nice of the dealership to deliver both pianos for you to test, so kudos to them. You'd be happy with either piano, in my opinion.


Full disclosure: I rent a Baldwin upright from the Kawai dealer in this city. I prefer Kawai over Yamaha, usually, but never enough to give a proper reason, I just developed a preference and stuck with it.

If you are still shopping, I recommend visiting the Kawai dealer too; partly because he has been very good to me, but mostly because he also has pianos that are well worth consideration (he may have a used baby grand within your budget too). There is also a dealer in Dayton that has a huge selection of used pianos, and they have great weekend hours.
But it sounds like the dealer you are working with has been good to you too. I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever path or piano you choose.

Okay, I'll play the devil's advocate for a moment... (not my normal demeanor )

For the piano to be a grey market piano (from parts unknown), the dealer sure seems to know a lot about the history of the piano… seems a little strange to me.

Also, the hammers could have easily been filed/re-shaped, a common voicing practice. And, again, what style of music would put less pressure on the hammers? Doesn’t all styles of music have occasional FFF?

I don’t know… just seems a little like “over-kill sales pitch” on the part of the dealer to me.

Rick

I was thinking the same thing - how do we know it has been taken care of in it's whole life? I figure if you really like the Yamaha, negotiate a better price and have your tech check it out. Then forget about what the salesperson tells you about it's condition.

Jonathan

Dabrador: Have you checked craigslist in your area? Have you looked at U1 prices on eBay? (There's a way to look only at auctions that are already completed, so you'll see what they actually sold for.)

$4,500 U.S. should at the very least get you a 12 year old U1 or a 20-year-old U3. Either way, you'd be way better off than the deal they're offering you. The $100 or less it will cost you to bring a tech out to go over whatever you find on craigslist etc. is no more money than what you'd have to pay the same independent technician to go over the 30-year-old U1 they're offering you. Buying an old piano regardless of make or cost without having a tech give it a physical exam first is asking for trouble. The tech can save you a lot of grief.

We've monitored craigslist for over a year now. We've seen dozens of $1000 pianos that are junk. No regular tuning, serious scratches/gouges in the piano...all the while the seller "claims" it's a $10k piano.

Because of that we've decided to go with a dealer. Thus the situation we're in now.

I must say that even though this is somewhat frustrating, you all have been extremely helpful and have given me great information to use in our decision.

We may just abandon these two and start all over. I'm still really concerned with the Yamaha being grey market and the fact that this U1 may develop problems due to dryness. I'm also concerned about the PR being 2-3 years old and a discontinued model.

Let's try this...if you had $5000 to spend, what would you get?

What do you plan on using the piano for? Is your heart set on a grand vs upright?

Jonathan