Even after the great mans bicentenary year, he is still hit by the same prejudices and criticisms that have pervaded him both his whole life, and since his death.

Because of this, I have decided to make a thread dedicated to him. (Obviously this has been done with the e-cital, but I want to make a broader sort of thread). This is a thread for discussing Liszt, posting his music, and basically celebrating him. The thread is for everyone, but aimed at people who are particularly enthusiastic about the man and his music.

I'll start the thread by posting some rare-ish works of his that I have been listening to a fair bit lately...

Glad to see some of his "off the beaten [stabbed, shoved, forced, attacked] track" works celebrated! What an incredible figure he was, too...

I'm always confused by people who think that Liszt's music is somehow just flashy, ostentatious show-off pieces that forsake any kind of depth. I always find delicate, passionate harmonies in Liszt's pieces, which are buttressed by his imaginative, visceral pianistic effects.

I was just reading a new biography of Ravel (my favorite piano composer) and apparently his library included a whole ton of Liszt, and you can tell by Ravel's piano music that he encountered a fair amount of Liszt.

Ravel owes a lot to Liszt's late works, especially Jeux d'eaux de la Villa d'Este, which to me is the first Impressionistic piano piece.

Actually, isn't his much earlier "Au bord d'une source" just as impressionistic? but yes, I think Liszt was first in this regard.

Sophia

Not as much, but still, yes. I've never heard this particular recording before. It is much slower than the recording I have on CD, but it is very charming, nonetheless.

I consider this one of his masterworks:



What a journey!

I always thought this piece was beautiful.



It's bummer people don't play it very often compared to the other consolations.

-Will

Ahhh....F# Major, Liszt's Key for the Divine...

I've also loved this piece for quite some time.

I also love Totentanz (the version with orchestra)! Sure, there's some flash, but there are great moments in there.





The part from 4:48-4:58 in the 2nd part just takes my breath away. So "movie score" for its time!

Well, yes and no. I always thought of Au bord as more of a Romantic nature study, or otherwise Schumann's Waldscenen would handily predate it. There's no doubt that somewhere in there the seed was planted, but Jeux d'eaux I think is more along the lines of the subject matter that Debussy and Ravel used. He becomes less of a cantor and more of a painter.

I never got it either. He did write a lot of stuff merely to show off his unsurpassed technical equipment (like the opera fantasies), but even most of them are void of empty virtuosity, which he would be excused for anyway seeing as that's more or less what he wrote them for. Some of these works are really terrific too, like the inspired Norma fantasy. People always say there is a good deal of trash in his oeuvre, but there is actually very little void of interest, even when he was writing for show off purposes (which is not really a bad thing in the end, seeing as he wrote so much music for musical purposes). Like all composers, he wrote masterpieces, good pieces, and average-'bad' pieces. I do think that a lot of Liszt can be an acquired taste though, as it is often in his best stuff a unique style of writing, and very virtuosic which can put people, especially those with a prejudiced mind, off despite how good the music is.





Yes! I agree, absolutely a masterwork. Always one of my very favourites! Thankyou!



Agreed. All of the consolations are very beautiful pieces, but 3 (and to a lesser extent, 2) seems to be the only one that's played. It's a shame, because they are all little gems.



Yes I love the Totentanz too! Terrific piece. My favourite recording is from Zimerman, who to me gets it pretty much perfect. (In fact Zimerman in both Liszt's concerti and the Totentanz is pretty much perfect IMO, transforming these oft-critisized works into the masterpieces they deserve to be).

Here he is in the Totentanz:








I agree with you there. I also think however that the first Légende is very impressionistic, and it was written a fair bit before the Jeux d'éaux. Then again while I have an idea, i'm not 100% sure of what impressionistic fully entails - what the 'requirements' are, especially when dealing with a piece firmly in the time of the romantic era. Maybe this is more a romantic nature study too? It always struck me as very impressionistic, however.

A masterpiece played by one of my favourite pianists Dinu Lipatti.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRt8txTphY8

Like so many of his works these are absolutely transcendental.

The beauty of Beethoven can be so overwhelming that my bones ache and I forget to breath. Chopin seems to willfully destroy my emotions leaving behind a blubbering mess. But only Liszt's compositions are banned from my work hours as nothing else becomes possible when captured in his enchantment.

Liszt alone steals my soul and returns it transformed for the better.

I've been listening to the Faust Symphony a lot lately...Love love love this work! One of my favourite symphonies by anyone...It's better in context with all the transformations and all that, but this movement takes my breath away every time...It has to be one of the greatest movements in any symphony IMO.

Conducted by Bernstein who called the symphony 'Liszt's only authentic masterpiece.' Obviously a load of rubbish when there is the Sonata, the Christus Oratorio, Benediction, and more, but still that's high praise of this work by a great conductor.

I'm an admirer of Liszt, the man and the music, I dare to say that I know how important he has been, historically, musically, pianistically, but, BUT: he tends to be a vehicle for some pianists to show off their own musical shallowness in such a way that it has an effect, unfortunately, on his reputation. Liszt at his best deserves pianists at their best, as do Chopin, Mendelssohn, Schumann and all the others.

The other consolations are often overlooked and sometimes it takes just a certain touch. This was posted in the members recording subforum and I was quite taken by it.

Consolation #1

I like the first Liebestraum from the set of three Liebestraums more than the second and third.

I've always had a soft spot for Sonetto 104 del Petrarca...

I agree with you! In fact I like the first AND second better than the third, and the first is my favourite. However I do think this is simply because i've heard the third a minimum of a million times rather than the other two being better - I do think the third is the more attractive work despite how numb i've become to it. But all three are beautiful.



Me too...I think this extended miniature contains the essence of Romanticism. It is one of my favourite piano works by anyone.

I just realised, while I agree with you that Au bord d'une source is more a nature study, I disagree with Waldszenen predating it. Waldszenen was written in 1848 I believe, while Au bord d'une source was written in it's first form (in the Album D'un Voyageur suite) in around 1836, and then revised in the 50's into the version we know and love today.

I think his 2nd Ballade is much better than any of Chopin's 4 .

*runs away so he doesn't get killed*

While I don't agree with you, i've said similar things many times. I personally believe that Liszt's 2nd is every bit as good as Chopin's masterful 4th Ballade (which I believe to be Chopin's greatest work, and my favourite work by him), and I like Liszt's better. I'm not, however, going to say that it is better

So as OP, i'm more or less on your side. I will protect you from being killed

It took me forever to find a good recording of this work - all the recordings on youtube just didn't do it for me...until I found this one by Stephen Hough, who pulls the work off pretty much perfectly IMO.

A lot of folks seemed to like my interpretation of it, I recorded the Second Ballade for the Liszt e-cital. I don't think it is fair to compare it to the Chopin ballades. They're in different, equally distant and fantastic solar systems. The Liszt just gives the impression of being endlessly immense, generous and vivid, and the Chopin is so inward and intimate. There's no way to meaningfully compare them.

Pffffffffft!



Good idea that.

Well yes. I do agree with you.

On another note, i've been listening to his 1st Ballade lately as well. It is not in the same world of quality and is a much more light-hearted work, but I still love this piece. Anyone else for his first Ballade? Perhaps not first-rate Liszt, but some parts are absolutely magical.

here's a beautiful Liszt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEkonOxis_k

Well, three of them, anyway.

And I think y'all are nuts.

Or, at least, allowing overexposure to tarnish the Chopin. It's not his fault, or their fault, that they're overplayed.

Liszt was a very fine composer, and a musical genius. But Chopin occupies a different universe.

That's my take, anyway. (These forums wouldn't be very interesting if we all agreed on everything!)

-J

Yes, but not a better universe.

This. I love them both dearly, but I think that with these two, saying one is greater than the other is purely subjective. For me personally, where they more or less cancel each other out in piano works, Liszt has so much great stuff away from the piano that Chopin obviously just does not have.

Perhaps you could could back up for a moment and ask what exactly beet31425 meant by a 'different universe'?

I suspect I know what he means, and even more, where he is going with this, but far be it for me to give that away.

Oh, I think they know as well as you. Well, shame on me for crashing a Liszt appreciation thread.

Seriously, I used to hate Liszt. Let's say I used to give him a 2 and Chopin a 10. Then, a few years ago (partly from reading the posts of some folks here), I gave him a more careful listen, and came to completely reevaluate him. I saw that what I used to hear as bombast was just a part of his vocabulary, which indeed was rich, nuanced and expressive. Sonetto 104 and even the Dante Sonata are on my might-play-someday list.

So I think Liszt is quite good-- I'd give him something like a 7 or 8 now. But Chopin is still a 10. Almost every nuance, every little corner of his compositions, sparkles like a gem. It can sometimes be hard to hear it since some of his pieces are too popular for their own good, and ours. But, Liszt vs. Chopin is like the difference between a powerful, accomplished wise mortal... and a god.

All my opinion, of course, and I already know it's not shared by others.

-Jason

See for me, i'm the same, but the other way around . And it's not just in the music, it's the persona too. Where I get put off by the person that was Chopin, Liszt was truly a godlike human being - and when I listen to his music, I hear not only the sublime music, but know it came from a person who was worthy of it. I just find Liszt a lot easier to love, and frankly his music touches me more. But to each his own! I love Chopin, i've been listening to him a lot lately. I've really re-evaluated his piano concerti, after not liking them that much initially I now am officially in love with them.

I'm not expecting a revelation. Do you think I missed something? I don't.



edit: I still don't.

Is it fair game to discuss his contribution to technique in this thread then? I'll start with this since I recently made the clips for another thread. Mazeppa has been brought up a few times for the seemingly odd use of 2-4, 2-4, 2-4, etc fingering on the thirds, generally explained as helping to achieve the sensation of a galloping horse. But digging around, I found a few more examples. The effect, to be sure, seems to result in a punchier sound. If I recall correctly, Horowitz also uses this fingering in the ascending thirds preceding the finale in his transcription of Mendelssohn's "Wedding March" achieving an extraordinary sound.


from Mazeppa

from the 6th Paganini etude-


from Hungarian Rhapsody #1



[/quote]

Liszt Toccata

Alexis Weissenberg plays Liszt (RIP Alexis, July 26, 1929 - January 8, 2012)

[/quote]

I don't have anything to add to this discussion, but that's very interesting! How he uses specific fingerings to achieve an effect in his music. Fiddling around on the piano right now, it does achieve that punchier sound. I don't know how he contributed to technique, other than using new figurations and writing virtuoso stuff that really had not been done before on the piano.

Speaking of Mazeppa...I'm currently listening to the symphonic poem version - it came with BBC Music Magazine. This work is often criticised, unjustly IMO. People say stuff like unimaginative orchestration and banal and all that stuff...I hate all those comments. This is terrific music - maybe not for everyone, but this is sexually charged music if there ever was any. And I don't even agree with the unimaginative orchestration - I think that is more to do with most performances, tbh. I have heard many recordings on youtube, but none of them bring out the galloping and neighing of the horse in the variant of the first subject, and numerous other things - very imaginative if you ask me, listening to this (surprisingly exemplary BBC Magazine recording). So this is why I will not post a video on here.

One of the things for which Liszt is most criticized is IMO one of his more important contributions to the literature. "Too many notes" is something you will often hear, but they defined so many ornamental effects that had not yet been heard and have been used subsequently by other composers. He outlined what was possible to be done on the piano.

Yes, I agree. Where Chopin often gets continuous credit for being the first to truly making the piano sing, Liszt should get the same sort of credit for his innovations in keyboard technique, as you said showing what was possible to be done on the piano as he was IMO at least as important for it - but instead he just gets criticised for it.

And also it's such a narrow minded and stereotypical view. He wrote so much great music, some of it using a lot of virtuosity and some not. If both the stereotypes were gone, and the people understood his innovations in technique rather than criticising him for lots of notes he would be held in a much higher regard.

And besides...As much bad Liszt as there should be, I find very little without interest. Even his more 'empty,' less inspired virtuoso pieces have interest, can be fun, and have inspired sections. To me they are often much more preferable to the less inspired work of the other great keyboard composers.

Thanks to Bech for posting this in another thread. An astonishingly powerful rendition of the 2nd Ballade (the one that's better than Chopin's .)

No knock to Chopin, but Beethoven was the first to make the piano sing. Also Chopin always sounds like Chopin, he never pushed the sonic boundaries. He found a niche and stayed there.

Actually, Haydn and Mozart did it before Beethoven! And Schubert did it around the same time as Beethoven, which was before Chopin.

Haydn and Mozart didn't know what a piano was.

Just read this joke of an article.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/dam...bothering-with/

I'm going to make a post of just the works I know and see how many are worth bothering with...(I have a LOT to explore, many piano works, most of his choral stuff, lieder, chamber and more, so this won't be a complete list).

Be back with you!

Could the "Damion" who wrote this article be an alter ago for our own Damon? A sort of Jekyll/Hyde situation?

For a long time, before coming here, I would have agreed with this article. Some part of me can't help but still be sympathetic to its main point. It's been eye-opening to see how much respect and love Liszt gets around here.

-J

They absolutely did. Especially, Papa. Their pianos certainly weren't anything close to the one we know today, but rapid advancements were taking place during both their lifetimes and Haydn would have the opportunity to witness a GREAT deal of advancement.

Except that it's not.

I can't believe I'm disagreeing with a Damon post, but are you serious? Can you explain to me how the Preludes sound like the Mazurkas or how they sound like the Waltzes? The amazing thing to me is the innovation and variety of Chopin's work, and all with seemingly little outside influence - just a dash of Hummel and a pinch of Bellini. He found a way to use every chord under the sun, properly.

I'll be generous toward the 'opposition' and put the CD length at 75 minutes. I'll also be very generous toward the opposition in pieces that I pick, leaving many that I think are more than worthy and 'satisfying' out. I also won't include works that I have heard are more than worthy but I haven't heard, just to make it more ridiculous, and of course the hundreds of works I just don't know (and works that I do know but not well enough). I also won't include alternate versions of works I have already mentioned - even the works in different genres to the aforementioned. I also won't include any of his genius transcriptions...except for his of his own work.

So here it is, the works that reveal a 'truly satisfying creative artist.'

CD1: Christus Oratorio. (210 minutes approx).
CD2: Christus Oratorio.
CD3: Christus Oratorio. Psalm 137. (9 minutes approx).
CD4: Via Crucis (40 minutes approx). Psalm 13. (24 minutes approx). Ave Verum Corpus. (5 minutes approx.
CD5: Tasso, Lamento e Trionfo (21 minutes approx). Orpheus (12). Prometheus (12). Les Préludes (16). Mazeppa (16).
CD6: Héroïde funèbre (24). Hamlet (14). Hunnenschlacht (14). Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe (16).
CD7: Eine Faust-Symphonie in drei Charakterbildern (70).
CD8: Eine Symphonie zu Dante's Divina Commedia (50). Piano Concerto No. 2 in A major. (22).
CD9: Piano Concerto No. 1. (20). Fantasie über ungarische Volksmelodien (14). Totentanz (15). Douze études d'exécution transcendante: 3 (4), 5 (4), 6 (5). 8 (5). 12 (6).
CD10: Douze études d'exécution transcendante: 9 (9), 10 (5), 11 (9). Grandes études de Paganini: 1 (5). 3 (5). Trois études de concert: (21). Zwei Konzertetüden: (7). Apparition No. 1. (7). Années de pèlerinage: Chapelle de Guillaume Tell (6).
CD11: Années de pèlerinage: Au lac de Wallenstadt (3). Au bord d'une source (4). Vallée d'Obermann (13). Le mal du pays (6). Les cloches de Genève: Nocturne (6). Sposalizio (8). Sonetto 47 del Petrarca (6). Sonetto 104 del Petrarca (7). Sonetto 123 del Petrarca (7). Gondoliera (5). Tarantella (9).
CD12: Après une lecture de Dante: Fantasia Quasi Sonata (18). Canzone (4). Angélus! Prière aux anges gardiens (9). Aux cyprès de la Villa d'Este I: Thrénodie (7). Aux cyprès de la Villa d'Este II: Thrénodie (9). Les jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este (8). Romance in E Minor (3). Ballade No. 2 in B minor (15).
CD13: Ballade No. 1 in D flat (8). Consolations (16). Hymne de la nuit (7). Harmonies poétiques et religieuses: Bénédiction de Dieu dans la solitude (18). Pensée des morts (12). Funérailles (11).
CD14: Harmonies poétiques et religieuses: Miserere, d’après Palestrina (4). Andante lagrimoso (9). Cantique d’amour (6).
CD15: Berceuse (10). Deux légendes (16). Piano Sonata in B minor (30). Variations on a theme from Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen (16).
CD16: Prelude after a theme from Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen (5). Sarabande and Chaconne from Handel's opera Almira (13). In festo transfigurationis Domini nostri Jesu Christi (2). Mosonyis Grabgeleit (6). Nuages gris (3). La lugubre gondola I (5). La lugubre gondola II (9). Receuillement (3). Trauervorspiel und Trauermarsch (7). En rêve. Nocturne (2). Valse-impromptu (5). Valses oubliée No. 1. (3). Bagatelle sans tonalité (3). Polonaise No. 2. (9).
CD17: Hungarian Rhapsodies: 1 (13). 2 (10). 3 (5). 5. (9). 9 (10). 12 (10). 19 (10). Canzone Napolitana (5).
CD18: Glanes de Woronince: Ballade Ukraine (9). La romanesca (9). Rhapsodie espagnole (13). Concerto pathétique (two piano's) (18). Präludium und Fuge über das Thema BACH (Organ) (13). La Notte (Orchestra) (13).
CD19: Réminiscences de Norma (18). Réminiscences de Lucia di Lammermoor (6). Les Adieux. Rêverie sur un motif de l'opéra Romeo et Juliette (11). Illustrations de l'Africaine No. 1 (8). Réminiscences de Don Juan (18). Soirée de Vienne No. 6 (7). Rigoletto Paraphrase de Concert (7).
CD20: Buch der Lieder Book 1 No. 2 (3). Die Zelle in Nonnenwerth (7). Liebesträume. Drei Notturnos (15). Mephisto Waltzes (36).
CD21: Fantasy and Fugue on the chorale Ad nos, ad salutarem undam (30).

20 absolutely full length CD's, not 5. And I think if I didn't do all those things I said I would at the start...It would be at LEAST double that, probably a lot more. If I included transcriptions, triple, earlier/different versions would also add more. I'm looking forward to exploring the rest of his output.

I also found it funny that he said that there is pretty much nothing in his output that are as good as other romantic works such as the Schumann Fantasy, or Chopin Ballades. That's what happens when you pick the best works those composers wrote. But to list works that I think stand up to them: Ballade No. 2, Piano Sonata, Faust Symphony, Christus Oratorio, Bénédiction de Dieu dans la solitude, at least, as well as many works that come close.

P.S. If you were wondering why I even bothered to do that, it's because i'm bored and have way too much time on my hands.

Okay, I was exaggerating a little. There has to be some balance to the Chopin gushing around here.

Your comments here brought to mind the comments of Charles Rosen, from an article several decades back. He suggested that, in the compositional arena, Liszt really should be thought of as a composer who created new sonic landscapes; who loved the sense of new sonic experiences utilizing the extreme registers of the keyboard, at all sorts of unprecedented tempi and complexities. Liszt's output has been more commonly associated with the vulgar 19th century melodrama, faux religiosity, and/or sickly-sweet sentimentality that quite frankly repulsed most 20th century listeners; but perhaps there is now (in the 21st) an opportunity to review his pianistic output more in the "revolutionary" sound sense than projecting the hyper-emotional implications. JUst a thought -- from one who's never liked Liszt very much for these reasons, certainly not enough to begin to deal with the daunting technical demands.

Hope ya'll don't mind me posting a lot of my Lisztening on here.

Currently listening to the mighty Christus Oratorio. The work is marvellous. The more I listen to it, the more I love it. Leslie Howard thinks it is Liszt's greatest work and 'far and away the greatest Romantic Oratorio.' Not easy listening but as I have realised, it rewards repeated listening. And IMO Part III has to be one of the greatest hours or so of music ever written.

For those who like choral music, listen to this colossal Stabat Mater Dolorosa movement. It is much better in context, but the work goes for 3.5 hours and this is near the end.

Here's the link to the playlist on youtube for those who are interested in the whole thing.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCF68DE9CCC61FD3D

For the rest of you, here is the Stabat Mater.

I think this is some interesting Liszt playing - caution and accuracy thrown to the winds, but a lot of high-spirited and colorful fun. And, by the way, I think this music demonstrates one reason some people don't handle Liszt very well - he's just not serious enough all the time and he knows how to have a good, raucous party on the keyboard.




It is somehow appropriate that Enrico Pace, one of the better Liszt players around, doesn't believe in recordings (an attitude I can easily imagine Liszt approving of), so mostly what we get of his solo work are some poor quality bootlegs. Here's one...

Would be better if he had more tricks to pull out of his hat beyond the first 30 seconds. Oh wow, he can go fast and loud and then immediately super slow and quiet.. impressive once or twice, not so much for 8 minutes. I often find that these "novelty" pianists are the ones with the least to say.

I think there's rather more going in that performance than you seem to have heard, but whatever...

I agree with you here, wr -- THAT is how a Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody should be presented! For me, it was reminiscent of how a jazz pianist with "chops" would approach this -- semi-improvisatory, overtly showy, slick -- IMO, exactly as Liszt had conceived it. I wouldn't approach the "Funerailles", or the "Benediction to God in Solitude" in this manner, but this performance totally works for me.

Thanks for sharing this!

Not the way you're used to hearing it.

^I loved those Damon, thanks! I really need to get the complete Leslie Howard Liszt...


I've been listening to his De profundis for piano and orchestra lately. It his Liszt's longest work for piano and orchestra at around 34 minutes. It was written in 1834, and left unfinished. The piano part was pretty much finished, but the orchestration was still in draft form. It was discovered in 1992 and some minor finishing touches were made to make complete performance possible. Being written in 1834, when Liszt was firmly in his virtuoso years and had not yet developed into anything close to the composer we know today, it is a flawed work. However I have really taken a liking to it. Great as they are, I don't think either of Liszt's concerti are among his best stuff, although I do love the second. This work here is probably my second favourite piano and orchestra by him behind the gorgeous second piano concerto.

It is really a stunningly original for a work written at that time and at that age. Despite its flaws it is a remarkable and fascinating work with some great moments. A lot of the material would later be distilled and made into the remarkable solo piano work Pensée des morts.

I highly recommend the set. Many may say that Howard doesn't give the most exciting performances but I think most are pretty solid. Being a (nearly) complete set, we get to compare early efforts with revisions made over the years. Liszt didn't hide his warts like others.

Yes. I have heard many of his recordings and they are usually pretty good although some pieces I think he plays very poorly. I think the general consensus is that it is great as a reference and for being able to hear everything he wrote rather than absolute first class playing. But what a monumental achievement...

Now if only I had 300+ dollars to spare...

You don't have to buy them all at once.

Well yeah. But buying the big box set is a HUGE bargain. No point buying individual ones if i'm gonna get the big one soon enough.

Behold the awesome power of his music :

Agree, and that is why I'm getting the new release of Rubinstein's box set.

Indeed. And for those less comfortable with organ music, here is Busoni's take on Liszt's Ad nos. At first I thought it too slow, but I have come to agree. This, along with the Norma Fantasy, might possibly be the only work to challenge the B minor sonata. (The Met broadcast today was Norma -vintage performance with Sutherland- and it gave me a renewed appreciation of Liszt's 'reminiscence' of the opera.)

I have been listening to that piece, and that performance, repeatedly lately. I put it as Liszt's second greatest solo piano work behind the Sonata (if you count it as his work, being a transcription by Busoni). GREAT work...One of the most powerful pieces in the solo piano repertoire. Dorfman has a CD out with this work and a bunch of others on his site that I am interested in getting after hearing his amazing performance of the Ad Nos. I find it remarkable that piano skills is not and has not in fact been his primary ambition, but rather his core ambition seems to be visual art. Some people just got it!

I thought you would enjoy that.

I personally appreciate the ability to listen to Schubert songs expertly transcribed with the singing removed.

I'm afraid I prefer having the singer there, but of course, the transcriptions are expertly done.

Nobody plays this study like askkenazy does

I have met Leslie! He is such a wonderful man, and he knows liszt's life so well its really scary!

Terrific! Thankyou.

Liszt's transcriptions of his own songs are very good too. Obviously there's the three Liebesträume, and the three Petrarch Sonnets, but there are also two lovely books of his own song transcriptions.

Here are a couple of my favourites.







Thankyou! I hadn't heard Ashkenazy in that Etude before. Terrific.

Wow. I just heard 'Tristia' by Liszt for the first time. It was written in 1880 and is based on Valee d'Obermann. Unlike the second version for trio (Tristia is the third) the piece is very different from the original. It is very much like his other late pieces in that it is very dark...and hauntingly beautiful.

Yesterday I was randomly looking at solo piano recitals on youtube and I found this one by Kissin. I actually went to his playing of the same program in September, and watching it again brought back good memories. It is an all Liszt recital (in Verbia, July 23 2011) including, in order:

Ricordanza, Etudes D'exécution Transcendante No.9.
Piano Sonata in B minor.
Funérailles (Harmonies poétiques et religieuses No. 7)
Les années de pèlerinage 1ère Année (La Suisse) No.6 - Vallée d'Obermann.
Les années de pèlerinage 2ème Année (L'Italie supplément) Venezia e Napoli.

Encores:

Liebesträume No. 3 in A-flat.
Soirées de Vienne, valse caprice for piano No. 6 (after Schubert D. 969 & 779).
Widmung (Liebeslied), transcription for piano (after Schumann)



Enjoy!

I actually like Liszt's Ave Verum Corpus better than Mozart's.




Edit: So I just realised I have the last four posts in this thread. Hope ya'll don't mind

So what are everyones favourite works by Liszt? I was thinking about it today, and my absolute (extremely narrowed down) favourites are...(In no order)

Transcendetal Etude's 10-12.
Un Sospiro.
Vallée d'Obermann.
Les cloches de Genève: Nocturne.
Sonetto 104 del Petrarca.
Après une lecture de Dante: Fantasia Quasi Sonata.
Les jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este.
Ballade No. 2 in B minor.
Piano Sonata in B minor.
La lugubre gondola II.
Mephisto Waltz No. 1.
Réminiscences de Norma.
Piano Concerto No. 2 in A major.
Fantasy and Fugue on the chorale Ad nos, ad salutarem undam (Both the organ version or Busoni's transcription for solo piano).
Les Préludes.
Eine Symphonie zu Dante's Divina Commedia.
Eine Faust-Symphonie.
Christus.

I started reading through the Dante Sonata today. It's actually really good!

I didn't like it when I first made its acquaintance some years ago, but it is a work which has definitely grown on me!

Pensees des morts is amazing
So are the variations on Weinen Klagen Sorgen Zagen

My feelings towards Mr. L. have dimmed a bit in recent months, but I've always loved this work, and I still do. It's the only "warhorse-ish" piece of his that I entertain fantasies of actually playing. Surprised that it has anything less than the most honored reputation among those who know.

-J

If you've never heard it live on the organ, you are in for a thrill. I remember hearing it live at St. Paul's Cathedral in London when I was a teen, and it was nothing short of a life-changing, transcendental experience!

Unfortunate to report, however, that last Sunday I went to a doctorate organ recital on the Flentrop organ at my local Episcopal cathedral. Excellent playing -as expected- but the programme ended with Liszt's other major organ work (besides the B.A.C.H.) the Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen.

Not sure what to make of that piece. I've never found it very interesting on the piano, though on the organ it certainly builds to a thrilling conclusion. Alas, until then, we're treated to a lot of meandering, tedious chromaticism. Yet august musicians such as Alfred Brendel have written very highly of it.

Terrific piece. NOT easy to pull off, however. I've been up and down on it for awhile because it's so easy to butcher. The first half of the piece, to me, is one of the best 10 or so minutes of any piano work. The rest of the piece i've been up and down on, but played well it can be worthy of the first half, played poorly it can ruin it.




I LOVE Pensees des morts too. Probably my favourite piece in that remarkable cycle. It only just missed out on my favourites from a few posts up However, like Jason the Weinen Klagen Sorgen Zagen variations has never reached me. One of his few important works I don't like, and the praise heaped on it frankly baffles me. But when such esteemed musicians are so high on it, i'm probably the one in the wrong! I haven't heard it for organ, though. Another of Liszt's piano pieces in the rarified company of ones I don't like is the Fantasy and Fugue on BACH. However, I MUCH prefer and really like the organ version, so maybe i'll like the variations better on organ too, even if Jason didn't.

Maybe i'm just not getting something with the piece though. Maybe you can help me there Sophial? What do you like about this piece?



I'm sure it was! I haven't heard it live on organ. I've actually never been to a solo organ recital! Something I have to look forward to in my future.

Another interesting transcription. Tchaikovsky this time.

Mephisto Waltz No 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Cgr0eZ0rk

I can defiantly see why some may be indifferent to Liszt, his music at times is very showy, but in my opinion, beneath all the virtuosity and showmanship, Liszt was extremely sensitive and VERY romantic. Here's some of my favorite pieces which show "the other side" of Liszt:-

http://youtu.be/3WereFdCsII
A little posthumously published piece "Romance in E minor S.196". One of my all time favorite Liszt pieces.

http://youtu.be/MepHSMl0NGs
"Klavierstucke in A flat" - absoloutley beautiful.

http://youtu.be/iCFn5agTjTE
The first of the three Liebstraum, my favorite one. The first two are often overlooked because of the popularity of the third one, this one is just stunning. The third one, despite its overexposure is absoloutley gorgeous though, the final section gives me chills everytime.

You've got to love Liszt, very difficult to play but an absoloute genius.

I almost forgot this:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inh-Jyd7UhY
Hungarian Rhapsody in E minor ""Héroïde élégiaque" this one speaks for itself.

pianojosh23,

The Weinen Klagen Sorgen Zagen variations are an enormous outpouring of grief. My understanding is that they were written in the aftermath of the deaths of his daughter Blandine and son Daniel. Read Alan Walker on this piece in his biography of Liszt. This work holds tremendous emotional power-- you can hear at various points the piano weeping in downward minor seconds, and an absolutely overwhelming emotional climax of rage and questioning of God. Liszt writes a miraculous moment then as a fragile ray of grace and light breaks through, and a theme of a Bach cantata is used to form the coda (translated roughly as "What God does is well done"). It's a stunning piece.

Sophia

Amen to what you said! I myself have taken a very long hard look at his output, and while he WAS that virtuoso, sex symbol...He was also an absolute genius as a composer, i'm convinced.

Wow, thanks for that. After reading that and finding a good recording (by gooddog's piano teacher, no less), I now completely agree with you and see it for the masterpiece it is! What a remarkable piece. Thankyou!

Loved me some Liszt this week: two concerts of his transcriptions.

I almost don't want to learn a new program for next year!

...and it's actually not that hard once you get it! It's just an endurance test.

BTW, there is an interesting article by Charles Rosen, in the NY Review of Books,

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/feb/23/super-power-franz-liszt/

That's what it seemed like when I was reading through it... It seems like the hardest part is conceptualizing how you want it to really go.

By the way, if you are able to play the word "conceptualizing" in Scrabble, you could score over 1000 points:

Lovely piece from the "Canticle of the Sun" (also sounds like it is playable by mortals.)

Some songs are about love, others...spruce trees?

I always loved that piece, and that is a terrific recording. Thanks for sharing!

The Légendes. Two of Liszt's finest.

Three of my recent Liszt 'discoveries' need to be added to this thread.

As I made another thread about, but I might as well put it here too...His masterpiece, the Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen variations. Took me the longest time to understand, but I now consider it one of the most emotionally powerful and profound works in the literature.




His tone poem, Hamlet, which is a work I have known for a long time. However, it has only just clicked for me after not getting it at all, and i'm starting to see it as the masterpiece some commentators consider it to be.





The 'Benedictus' from the Hungarian Coronation Mass. I've only heard the Credo and this Benedictus from this mass, so i'm guessing the rest perhaps is not quite as inspired (i'll be finding out soon, with a Liszt collection i'm getting). But the Benedictus is absolutely gloriously inspired.

Nice. I've been exploring a bit with the help of this thread. The amount of music he wrote is really intimidating.

In general I like his more gentle, subtle music far more than the loud, fast and showy music with endless streams of notes.

The problem arises with pieces that have both. It's hard for me to like them even though there may be a number of gorgeous quieter moments.

A piece like Totentanz, there are certain elements and moments I really like, but overall it's just too much. I need my music to have more breathing space.

I think that the appreciation of the pieces that have both will come with time. In the best of Liszt, like the second Ballade, the Sonata, etc pretty much all of the notes are for a musical purpose, even if it seems like that isn't the case at first.

I posted this work earlier, although there is now a recording I like MUCH more at this point. It doesn't drag on nearly as much. His great Oratorio Christus. Liszt considered it the greatest work he wrote, as does Lesle Howard (who called it far and away the greatest Romantic era Oratorio). It is certainly a work that requires repeated listens and it does seem to drag on at first even in this recording, but the more I give those listens the more I agree with Mark Carpenter who said: ""Christus" is music-making on the very highest order -- this is a score which can stand comparison with Beethoven's "Missa Solemnis" and Brahms' "German Requiem" and hold its head high along side these greatest of masterpieces."

For those who have 2.5 or so hours available...here it is.





My personal favourite movements are...
March of the Three Magi. (first vid, 45:40).
The Miracle. (Second vid, 24:34.)
Stabat Mater dolorosa. (Third vid, 14:12).

His larger works are too hard for me, but I am delighted to find that he is a very accessible working pianist and wrote sensibly.. his 'smaller' music really is easy to play.

I've explored his songs and organ works.. He was very diverse. My favorite?.. As a religious organist, i kind of like his dreary Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen variations.. they are so meaningful.. I would never perform them much - I certainly have dabble tho and they are really interesting pieces. .. and thanks to the link to the Bendictus pianojosh.!!!

since he wrote so fiendishly, works out of my skill scope ... I do like his Totentanz and other, wildly crazy works.

Fantastic!

Last night I attended the third Liszt recital given by my teacher, Mark Salman. This one covered Liszt's Weimer Period. I am new to Liszt so every piece is a surprise. He played:

Funerailles - what a beautiful but angry piece of music. The "bells" gave me goosebumps. Mark related that Liszt had great national pride and wrote the piece in anger at the Hungarian government for brutally executing a small group of revolutionaries. Mark's playing evoked fury and mourning and hope.

Seliger Tod - one of the lesser played Liebestraume

Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen - powerful piece.

Scherzo and March

and finished with the B minor sonata.

I enjoyed Funerailles and the Scherzo/march the best. The B minor sonata was a lot to absorb but I think I will grow to love it. I find Liszt to be one of those composers I have to listen to multiple times to appreciate. My admiration of his work is steadily growing.

Sounds like you had a good time I'm very jealous! Of any of the recitals in the series that would have been the one I would want to have gone to. I actually found him playing Funerailles on youtube and it has quickly become on of my favourite performances, if not my favourite. From the limited amount i've heard Mark has quickly become one of my very favourite Liszt performers, by the way.

I also agree with you. Many of my favourite pieces by Liszt I didn't think much of at first. His music does take multiple listens and a certain understanding to appreciate in full, for sure. Thanks for the account!

You're welcome

And I think you hit it on the head. With Liszt there is always the stereotype that all his music is impossibly difficult, but he wrote a huge amount of very accessible music that late intermediate - early advanced students can play. Of course, he did write a lot of virtuoso music and many great works that require a virtuoso technique, but even they tend to be easier than you'd expect due to just how proficient he was at writing for the piano. Very pianistic.

No doubt Deborah, and I am sure that Mark was awesome!

Funérailles to me has never been so much about anger, but all about a steady and progressive catharsis. Liszt has faced his anger and triumphed in another world. The final measures must rate as the spookiest in music, and he leaves the issue open.

I'm particularly moved by this seldom-performed piece, Vexilla Regis Prodeunt, S.185.

Thanks for sharing! Not one i'm particular familar with myself although i'd heard it once or twice. Apart from that one, the Harmonies poétiques et religieuses, Legendes, etc he wrote quite a few religious piano pieces that I really like. Some of my favourites among those i'm more familiar with are...



In festo transfigurationis Domini nostri Jesu Christi.



Sancta Dorothea



Stabat Mater (Using the same 'Stabat Mater Dolorosa' theme as 'Via Crucis' and 'Christus').



Urbi et orbi. Bénédiction papale.



Hymne de la nuit.

Some more obscure solo piano favourites...All of these were written before his Weimar years - some in the 30's, some in the 40's.

Some more great works. Two beautiful new discoveries, and one old favourite.

Psalm 23.



Die heilige Cäcilia.



Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe.

Our 20th century fans can just click "play" on all five at once to enjoy!

After listening to Katsaris, the tempo here seems glacial and yet I was totally mesmerized by this performance.

I've just got myself a piano and started playing again after a hiatus of 27 years (with a couple of periods in between when I did have access to the odd instrument or two of dubious provenance). I never did get Liszt, either as a player (too many technical challenges for me at that time probably) or as a listener. I did have a go at some of the pieces in the first book of the Années those many years ago, and reading through them again on the piano just now, I believe can quite comfortably learn Wallenstadt, Pastorale, and Eclogue. What other pieces would people here recommend, that are not too technically challenging, but are musically rewarding?

First of all, it's great you're getting back on the piano! I wish you luck in your journey with the instrument.

And to answer your question, the pieces you mentioned from the Annees could be a good start. Some other musically rewarding pieces around the same difficulty would be..

Romance in E Minor.



Consolations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Ye48y7mFU&feature=channel (That video contains 1 and 2, but 3, 4, 5, and 6 are found on the recommended videos on the side).

En rêve. Nocturne.



Tell me what you think of those.

En rêve sound a bit neither here nor there to me! I remember trying one of the Consolations once, a long time ago, and gave up because I found it a bit tedious, but I'm willing to give these miniatures another go. O pourquoi donc seems the most rewarding piece to me. I'd like to have a stab at Un Sospiro one day, in the distant future, and if I ever feel I'm ready, I'll bypass Liszt's Transcendental Etudes entirely and go straight for Lyapunov's!

Really? Explore the Lyapunov if you wish -certainly decent enough music (though I think they often look more interesting on the printed page than they do in performance)- but IMO they have none of the genius of Liszt's etudes.

But you can always save the Liszt for another day!

I haven't read through either of the two sets of Etudes, but from just listening, a couple of the Lyapunov ones stood out including one that I like very much. The Liszt set however, I didn't find memorable from a listener's point of view. I will of course, do a selective read through one day, if ever I feel I am ready.

I consider the best Liszt TE's to be 3, and 9-12. I think that 10-12 especially reach heights rarely matched in the solo piano literature, as far as miniatures go. I'm not sure how familiar you are with them, but I might as well link them anyway. This thread is lacking most of the TE's!

Paysage



Ricordanza



Appassionato



Harmonies Du Soir



Chasse-Neige

You left out the best one.

Listening to some of the Transcendental Etudes again, I'm even more acutely aware of the fact that I don't get it. And I think I now get why I don't get it, and I think I don't get it for the same reason I don't get it when I hear jazz (should I run and duck?). It's the performance aspects of a lot of Liszt that I am talking about. It's the flamboyance, the rhetorical gestures and flourishes which draw attention to themselves and to the performer.

I've been listening to Liszt in the wrong setting. I think I'd get it if I were to listen to him played live, especially by a flamboyant pianist (like Lang Lang? ) I might still not not enjoy what I hear the way I'd enjoy Schumann, Brahms (yes I'm firmly in the Leipzig-Berlin rather than the Weimar camp), Chopin or Schubert, but I think I'd get it.

Incidentally, the one time I remember hearing Liszt played live was thanks to a pianist who got a lot of flak from reviewers for being 'reserved' in his interpretation of Liszt. When I interviewed him, he scoffed at his critics and said he wanted to bring out the 'spiritual' side of the composer and made it a point of putting stuff like the Petrarchan Sonnets (I didn't get those either!) on the programme.

Anyway, I intend to have a fair stab at the first book of the Années. They look rewarding enough. One day in the distant future, I might have a go at some of the more showy and technically demaqnding pieces and maybe then, I'd get it.

That's understandable However I do disagree with a couple of your points - i'm of the belief that in the best of Liszt, if you are listening to the 'rhetorical gestures and flourishes' and feel they are 'drawing attention to themselves and the performer,' you are listening wrong. There is a lot of Liszt where what you describe certainly applies, but I fail to see it in the Trans etudes I listed. They use a virtuosic language like a lot of Liszt - but for a musical rather than athletic purpose. That virtuosic language can be difficult to get used to and probably isn't for everyone, so I understand your analysis.

I don't mean to push too much on you, i'm just curious. What do you think of late Liszt? Say, this piece?



Incidentally, you could play that one.

Regardless, I hope you find joy in learning pieces from the Annees!

This is amazing!

I discovered this work yesterday. Does anyone know about it? I found some information about it, apparently it was composed for the 20th anniversary of Chopin's death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnjauJquWfw&feature=relmfu