First of all, I'd like to thank those of you who answered all of my questions over the last 18 months. I really appreciate it.
I've played the piano for over 20 years, but I didn't understand all the internals (like Strunz soundboards, Abel hammers, Roslau strings etc....)

I started out wanting to get an upright. I looked at the Yamaha T-118, but quickly realized it didn't make me happy. Then I looked at a Yamaha U1. I liked it, but then decided for the same money I could get a cheaper grand. Then I looked at a fairly cheap 5'4" Nordiska, but they sold it before I could make a decision, and didn't have more. I wanted to like the cheaper Weber, Young Chang, Kohler and Campbell, Knabe etc.., but just didn't.
From there, my budget blew up yet again when I tried Pramberger, May Berlin, and Brodmann. I liked the Brodmann so much that I couldn't justify increasing my budget yet again (thank goodness for Brodmann, else I'd still be saving for something else.)

I will say, buying a piano was much trickier than I'd hoped. All the pianos I tried either didn't have a price tag, or had a ridiculous (above MSRP) tag that was immediately 'discounted' and each time I returned to the store the prices were different.

Also each of the dealers were extremely prepped to criticize other brands (The Yamaha dealer heavily criticized Kawai).

Luckily, I have a good ear and a Russian repertoire to do my own analysis , along with great advice from you guys.

Side note, I went to one dealership, and told them my approximate price range. They showed me their pianos, but I didn't like them. They then blamed it on my budget and said "You aren't going to find anything that's as good as you want for your budget. You should settle for a Kohler and Campbell and upgrade later." He really acted as though I was being unreasonable.
That made me furious. I'd already found pianos that I liked, and that were in my budget (Brodmann, Pramberger and May Berlin). The dealer just didn't stock those, and therefore criticized them.

In the end though, it was worth it, as I believe I bought the best grand my budget would allow.
Anyway, enough of my ranting. Here's a picture of it in my house (they're delivering the coasters later).

Let me be the first to post "WELCOME" to your new Brodmann! That's going to be fun to play and get to know over these new few years. I trust you'll break it nicely with some of that great, heavy-duty Russian piano literature. I think a 6-foot-plus grand is exactly what is called for (not that there's anything wrong with Yamaha T's and U's).

Congrats! Looks like you're enjoying it. I remember you posting about the search before; I thought you'd end up with this one. Well done!

Wow, congratulations!!

I wish you had recorded your playing too!! Looks like you are giving it a good work-out! :-)

Rick

wow. it's a beauty. congratulations and enjoy. hope to hear a recording soon.
gw

Congratulations! You look serious!

Beautiful - congratulations!

Always thought Russian piano literature is the heavy one, not so: one of our Brodmann grands recently had to endure 2 hours concert involving modern Bulgarian composers including footsy kicking lyra, fist poundings del hombre and coins merciless wetched in between strings!!

Now *that* was heavy.

P.S. Congrats - hopefully yours won't have to endure any of that!

Enjoy!!

Norbert

Congratulations on your beautiful new piano! I really do like those side logos and wish my piano had one.

Congratulations on an awesome, beautiful piano!!

Wow - How Beautiful! Looks like you are enjoying it already, making sure you break it in well Wishing you many years of enjoyment.

Hmmm. Twenty years playing, 18 months shopping and only ten posts here to get to this one fine picture. Looks like your formula for happiness is proportioned just right. Congratulations! I like your room. (I liked my last house best the very last day of 25 years when it was just me and the piano waiting one last day and night for the piano movers after the furniture movers had taken the uninteresting bits the day before.) Nice bench, too.

Ahhh...the joys of piano shopping. It's worse than buying a car! Glad you endured it and found what you were looking for! Have fun w/the new piano

Congratulations syxbit - thanks for sharing.

From the pic you posted, it looks like there are no lyre braces fitted. (On the Brodmanns there are two wooden braces which fit into the back of the pedal box and run at 45 degrees into the underside of the keybed) Ask the dealer to fit these a s a p.

Tante Auguri, you will love your new piano! Well done!

Wow, Chris, you're right. I just compared to the official photo on Brodmann's website. Thanks a lot for pointing that out. I'm calling the dealer right now
I knew I'd benefit by sharing my news on here

Also, about me only having 10 or so posts, you'll all be glad to hear that rather than ask questions that have already been asked, I used the search button . I must have read thousands of forum posts about Brodmann, Ritmuller, Hailun etc..

Congratulations on picking a great piano.
I think Brodmanns are a spectacular deal.
Thanks for posting a picture.
And good catch on spotting those missing braces Chris.

Congrats on the new Brodmann! I have one also [a 6'2 grand]. They are great pianos!

Happy New Year!

-Will

Great story about your search. Congrats on a great looking piano.

Congratulations on your new piano!

Congratulations on your new Brodmann 187! This is one of my favorite pianos, having over 4 years of experience with them now.

The Brodmann Piano Company is unique in that the company leadership is comprised of so many former executives of Bosendorfer. Their very high standards are thoroughly reflected in the quality of the pianos.

I find it remarkable that so many of these executives left Bosendorfer to lead the new company.

Information taken from company website:

Christian E. Höferl / CEO

In 1996, he became the Director in VP Sales & Marketing for the Bösendorfer Piano Company in Vienna - responsible for worldwide Sales & Marketing activities, a position he held until 2005. Under his leadership the Bösendorfer Piano Company more than doubled its annual sales figures and profitability with a new Corporate Identity for Bösendorfer.

Colin P. Taylor / Technical Director

Colin is a fully qualified piano technician. He was the concert technician for Bösendorfer in the United Kingdom, and a part-time lecturer in piano tuning and restoration at The London Guildhall University, prior to his appointment as General Manager of Bösendorfer London Piano Centre in 1989. This was Bösendorfer’s own successfully managed retail store in London. In 1996, he became Area Sales Manager for Bösendorfer covering the U.K. and Far East markets, travelling extensively throughout these regions and continuing to work closely between the factory and the dealers on all sales and technical matters until the end of 2004. With his extensive background of sales and technical expertise, Colin is in charge of all production and technical aspects of Brodmann pianos

Gerhard Sindelar / Marketing Director

Together with Christian Höferl Gerhard Sindelar led the marketing efforts for Bösendorfer for more than 8 years. Because of his love and interest in music, Gerhard also managed young artists.

Helmut Küker / Master Piano Technician

Helmut Küker began training as an apprentice at Bösendorfer in 1958 and continued until he became a Master Piano Builder, responsible for the final stages of piano production. He was the foreman of two of the most important departments in the factory for many years: the voicing and the regulation grand and upright pianos at Bösendorfer. His close working relationship with Christian Höferl and Colin Taylor for many years in the past has now been renewed and he now helps oversee the quality control and training at our factory.

Franzl Jungbauer / Master Piano Builder

Franzl Jungbauer worked for more than 42 years for Bösendorfer. From 1980 to 2004, he was responsible for the entire production and quality control for the grand pianos at Bösendorfer’s factory. As a Master Piano Builder and Concert Technician he has worked in many famous concert halls all over the world, such as Salzburger Festspiele, in London, in Singapore for the world’s leading pianists such as Alfred Brendel, Mauricio Pollini, Anni Fisher, Emil Gilels. Franzl Jungbauer has also worked closely with Christian Höferl and Colin Taylor over many years, and he helps oversee the quality control and training at our factory.

Irene Bierleutgeb / Assistent of CEO

Irene Bierleutgeb was assistent of the sales management for Germany and Netherlands at Bösendorfer. Since May 2006 she is Assistant of the Management Director / CEO of the Joseph Brodmann Piano Group.

Nick,



Probably not to remarkable they "left" considering Bosenforfer was on the rocks and the owner Bawag bank was leaking from financial problems, not the least of which turned out to be hiding a billion euros worth of hedge fund loses.

Long before he left, Hoferl, good salespro that he is, had realized matching an old German name to cheap Chinese labor would be profitable and when he stepped off the Bosendorfer barge he took the "Brodmann" project with him.

I recall Brodmann Group almost bought the ailing Bosendorfer, rings might have been exhanged, champagne spilled, but before the ink could dry Yamaha stepped up with a better offer and made off with the limping bride.

Also worth mentioning is that with all this piano mental muscle the Brodmann Group wisely decided to copy a Steinway design for the 187.


Mike

Mike,

One might even say, "A clever man can design a better piano than a Steinway...but a truly clever man will build a piano just like a Steinway".

I've also heard a lot about how the PE-187 copied the Steinway model A.
But, if they're all ex Bosenforfer employees, wouldn't you think they'd copy a Bosenforfer Model 185 ?
Any thoughts on this?

Well that would depend very much on their business objective for the PD-187, no? How many people in the world are buying a Chinese grand piano while aspiring to a Bosendorfer and how many to a Steinway?

All those who can't afford either.

Same of course is true considering Japanese pianos.

Which doesn't prevent them from being perhaps quite happy with their choice nonetheless...

Norbert

I agree. If I'm buying a cheaper Chinese made piano, I'd be glad with either a Bosendorfer, Steinway, Fazioli or C. Bechstein sound.
I wouldn't be too picky about which

It just seems strange, as the Brodmann guys should be much more familiar with the Model 185 Bosendorfer than a Model A Steinway

I find it somewhat curious that those who offer good value for affordable prices in today's market should have an ongoing need to justify themselves.

If America, Japan or Germany would be able to do this, nobody would even take note.

Trouble is that it's China now that's offering such product which for many still means there are "other issues" on mind.

Do we in the West "resent" China becoming a major player?

Undoubtedly so.

It is a difficult discussion with a certain degree of resentment being fully understandable, I have it myself.

But it's a discussion that's going on all over the world with nobody seemingly being able to roll back the dice.

On the other hand, hiding our heads in the sand won't help either: it certainly does very little for those who simply can't afford the very finest "we" make - or *were* making.

Perhaps the best to hope for are certain joint ventures like Brodmann, at least a company which major purchasing of its major parts & components still from the West.

In my mind it beats those who are busy building pianos elsewhere - yet are busy pumping their products full with 100% Chinese made parts.

Norbert

Rather than talk about "Chinese" this and that, I simply wanted to point out the European involvement that have made these pianos appreciated by so many people.

Other industries certainly involve China in their production, but it seems only in piano making is this so wrongly perceived and/or misunderstood.

The pianos speak for themselves!

Thanks,

Nick

They shouldn't, and you don't have to.

That's why posts like Nick's here are doomed to failure. People here are fairly sophisticated. They know the difference between a welcome to a new member an a blatant sales pitch extolling the exit strategy from a failing company by a few Bosie guys with a shared idea.

In stressing European company. European oversight, a Viennese business address, Western guest designers, etc, you guys play right into the perception that there is something basically wrong with Chinese manufacture -- like the Chinese won't do a proper job without Westerners watching their every move. In the long run is that perception good for your business?

The Yamaha and Kawai brands that seem to frustrate you so are actually helping your side of the argument. They are validating Chinese manufacture by getting into it themselves. Furthermore, they are pricing their Japanese grand pianos so high that your case for value gets better and better.

This is not five or ten years ago. You do not need to make the 'China is here whether you like it or not' speeches here anymore. Everyone realizes China is here. Those who don't like that fact for whatever political or other reason aren't going to get over it from reading pugnacious oratory.

Time to lighten up. It's 2012. Just stay with the value theme. It's there if people want to find it. If they don't, well -- you can't win 'em all.

Attention to the specifics of what each of these pianos is and what it is not wouldn't hurt either. Obviously they are not Estonias or Sauters. It would help credibility if you detail what the law of diminishing returns nets someone as he ascends the price ladder. People here can handle it. They don't generally expect 40k of performance from a 10k grand. Even vaguely teasing the idea that they'll get it creates a credibility problem.

Just suggestions.