Regarding notating music for piano I have the following questions. I am trying to look at various sheet music to clarify myself but I would be more satisfied with authentic answers from experienced people.

(1)Does a crescendo always have to be drawn from a softer dynamic to a higher dynamic? (eg from a P to mf) Is it possible to have open crescendos ?
For example I have a passage in forte where at the end of that phrase the volume increases and the next phrase is in pianissimo. So at the end of the “forte phrase” I am drawing a crescendo and with out stating any ff or fff I am stating “pianissimo” in the next phrase.
Is it ok or do I have to mention a ff at the open end of that crescendo. I have seen both ways in various notations.

(2)Can I have a crescendo and a diminuendo following that crescendo without any loudness markings (p,mp,mf) in between?

(3)For playing at a loose tempo, with expressive dynamics at the discretion of the player what should I mention in the sheet music? “Rubato”

(4)How to cancel a mood marking? For example I mentioned a particular piece should be played espressivo but after five or six bars I need an aggressive playing. How to do that?

(5)In stating mood markings, itlaian or English is preferred? I am having a glossary of musical terms and I am seeing terms like “misterioso” “grazioso”. Are they frequently used? Or do I have to go for familiar (for me)English terms?

I am sorry to ask so many questions at a time. (I have been advised by a fellow member to post one question at a time) But I think In this way it saves time for both people.

Much thanks in advance

Interesting questions! I've asked these questions myself at times.

1. It depends. Bear in mind that the purpose of notation is to make the composer's intent clear to a trained musician. In practical terms the purpose of dynamic indications is to express what you want. If what you want to leave some of that up to the performer then less will be better. For example, if you have a bar of music in which you want a little crescendo then a little diminuendo and the very next bar should start suddenly pianissimo, you could accomplish that with two hair pins and a subito pp.

My point is the performer is going to do what they want, the clearer your dynamic and phrasing indications, the less license they have to do it.

2. Yes, especially if you're intent is to make it just a little louder (or softer). If you want a big crescendo followed by a big diminuendo (p<FF>p) then you'd better put a dynamic indication in the middle.

3-5. I know Italian is the universal language if music, but if you can say what you want better in English then say it in English. If you're very comfortable using Italian then say it in Italian. For me, I usually use Italian tempo indications, but the mood is usually expressed in English.

I'll take a bash at replying this, although Steve did a more than fair job at this...

1. Crescendo means going louder, so you may confuse the performer if you put a softer dynamic sign after a crescendo... I have a habit of putting the final dynamic after a crescendo (most of the cases anyhow) and then put the new one, with the abbreviation 'sub.' (subito) if needed.

2. Yes, you can, but you need to decide if you want to have that much detail in a work. I mean some composers prefer that (to indicate every little nuance of dynamic change in a score), while others leave things a bit more vague for the performer.

3. Rubato and esspressivo would do the trick I think.

4. If you want to 'cancel' an indication you go for 'norm', and in general when you cancel anything you go back to the previous mood you were, or to the normal way of things. If you want to switch to a new one, you just put the new one ...

5. It really depends on what kind of terms you're talking about. Misterioso seems rather normal and common sense in the meaning.

A crescendo starting at (say) pp can rise to p, to mf, to f, to ff.... If you care which, you need to say so!


Same answer


"Rubato" is actually something quite specific. "Freely" perhaps?


Write an indication that means "Aggressive"


The common Italian terms, such as those you quote, are commonly used. Musicians world-wide understand them.

EXCELLENT ANSWERS GUYS !! thank you so much steve, nikolas and wombat.you are blessing me with the courage nothing else can give but knowledge




my ignorance, but puting a subito pp means just writing "Subito pp" or "sub pp" in the sheet music. i havnt seen anything like that. So dont know whether there is any sign or short for subito.



like subito, i hvnt seen the term "norm" too....so we have to write to "norm" just like we write the word "cresc"? and whether norm work for “legato sempre”? (ie. To cancel legato sempre and play normally)



specific in the sense? it means play at the performers pleasure right? mostly in tempo and dynamics. Why do you prefer the term “freely” to “rubato”?

There are many terms that are in general use in music. Subito means 'sudden' in Italian (and it's a general term in every day Italian language, as far as I know). So if you want to suddently change a dynamic (after a cresc), you can go...

pp <<<<< (the crescento hairpin) ff and then sub. pp, or pp sub.. This is a specific instruction that you want to go soft suddently.

norm (normal... or normale) is to go back to the basic state of playing or mood... Like a lot of Italian terms it makes sense also in English.

Rubato for me has the sense of... rubber, that it can expand, etc, so it's not exactly 'freely'. It has its own rules. That's why wombat proposes the term freely. It really comes down to what you want the performers to play and how to play it...

"Rubato" means letting the melody slightly speed up and pull back while maintaining the underlying tempo. It's actually what a good performer naturally does all the time, and what a sequencer DOESN'T do, and is therefore criticised for sounding "mechanical". (A bad performer takes too much advantage of the freedom to slow down, and forgets to "pay back" by speeding up afterwards:-) It's a much misunderstood and misused term. I suggest you avoid it!

"Freely" implies that the click-track is turned completely off. "Expressivo" means it's on, but can be stretched.

Doesn't expressivo also imply certain subtle difference in articulation? Not sure about piano but on violins and so forth most players seem to have a certain characteristic extra something to their articulation on expr. passages.

Regarding Italian terms....

I'm not so sure that these are quite as generally understood as many musicians think. I guess every musician has some idea what the term 'rubato' means, but whether all musicians will interpret the term in the same way is questionable. Same with 'grazioso', 'cantabile', etc.

In contrast to the practice of earlier times, my experience is that most musicians these days want very precise performance directions. For example: not just 'accel', but specific metronome marks at the beginning and end (and perhaps the middle) of an accel. passage.

FWIW my practice is to write everything in English, with as much detail as I can manage. So, rather than 'rubato' I might write 'Vary length of melody notes while keeping the overall tempo fixed' (if that's what I mean) or 'Vary tempo within range X to Y' (if that's what I mean).

For all that, there are some Italian terms that are (I believe) so universally accepted in meaning, and so much shorter than the English equivalents, that I can't help using them: "Legato", for example.

There are some Italian terms whose use I think should be banned completely. Examples include 'dolce' and 'expressivo'. We all know what they mean in terms of a translation, but how they are interpreted is so variable that it's hardly worth writing them.

kevinb is entitled to his opinions. But be aware that (a) they are a very quirky and contrary set of opinions and (b) he's probably just trolling!

It's probably right to say that my opinions are often quirky and contrary -- I say what I believe, and if that happens to run contrary to popularly-held views, so be it.

As for trolling, if you think I've made a statement on this forum, or anywhere else, that I couldn't defend, by all means call me on it. But you'll find that the views I express here are entirely in line with what I write elsewhere.

My views on the notation of music may differ from yours and, for all I know, from everbody's. But they are my honestly-held views, based on many years of writing and playing music.

For me all opinions are highly valuable.i am trying to form a point of view of myself from these answers. i am not taking them blindly but they acting as an input for me.when i read kevin i am assured of the freedom that the composer have about his compositions.(infact most of the discussions above)When i read wombat i am reminded to use those freedom carefully.
thank you again nikolas,wombat,kevin and brent

Is there a connection here with your opinion on rectal examinations over in the Piano Teachers section? :-)

(I mean this literally, look at the "sex matching" topic!)

When I said 'elsewhere' I mean 'in other publications'. I've never before had reason to discuss rectal examination on a piano forum, or anywhere else for that matter.

But you may be assured that if, for some reason, I did have cause to write about rectal examination outside this forum, the views I expressed would be in line with what I write here.

Must be two kevinb then! Look at post #1820207

You're not reading what I wrote. I would have thought that the meaning of the phrase "never before" was clear enough.

What is the point of this dicussion, anyway?