I have the usual problem: champagne tastes and beer budget. I am used to playing a Steinway L circa 2005 but it is not mine and now I must get a replacement. I have limited choices in piano stores in my area. New Steinways are too much. I don't like a lot of the lower-priced types like Boston, Essex, Story-and-Clark, etc. There are some promising pianos if I am willing to take a long trip, but there is no guarantee that the trip and expenses will result in finding something I will want. So I have started looking at pianomart and Craigslist. The prices are all over the place and almost all of the ads say excellent condition or restored, rebuilt, etc, but not many specifics. I know I will need a tech to examine any used piano I may consider purchasing, but to save a little money, I plan to examine the pianos first myself to even see if I have any interest in them. Does anyone have any tips on how to sort out good prospects from bad on Craigslist or pianomart and tips on checking a piano over to see if it even warrants the expense of hiring a tech to do an examination? I can tell if I like the touch and tone to a certain degree, but even these can often be improved without breaking the bank. I am just feeling a little confused...

One other thought: I have visited one shop that specializes in rebuilding high-quality pianos and I have also played 2 rebuilt pianos at the Steinway dealer in my area. I think I might find something in that way, but I would like to play enough rebuilt pianos to be in a position to judge better. Sometimes the price savings isn't even enough to make it tempting but I think the rebuilts might be closer to buying a new piano than just picking a used one. So many choices and yet it feels like the choices are limited at the same time. Has anyone else felt this way?

Aren't you the upstate NY person who has difficulty with big cities, so you wouldn't come down to NY City to look at the rebuilts there?

Unfortunately, pianos have a habit of clustering in areas of large population where there are many people who use and appreciate them.

Read between the lines of the pianomart and Craigslist ads to discern if the pianos seem to be owned by sensitive people who know and care about pianos. Good grammar and spelling, music degrees, nice photos, good detail about the instrument and its history, college town...these are some things you might look for in an ad.

Once you start looking at actual pianos, see if you have any gut reactions to any piano. Your experience with the Steinway L should be a good reference point. Unfortunately, you're right about the ambiguity of rebuilt, reconditioned, etc. But still, the piano should tell you some things.

I'm sure others can help out...maybe me too, but it's late...good luck.

IMHO used pianos (not rebuilt) can be BETTER than new if the owner was truly invested in the instrument and had it meticulously maintained by a master technician. if said owners are selling to move up a weight class or two there are fantastic deals out there, but don't expect them to give their babies away.

I went through this process last year. It takes a lot of patience but can be very rewarding.

It's definitely a good idea to look yourself before calling in a technician. I was amazed, and a bit discouraged, by the pianos private sellers thought were in "excellent condition." I don't think they were trying to be misleading. They just didn't realize that not everything can be fixed by simple tuning. Or maybe they thought "excellent condition" means the piano looks nice. After a while I decided to ignore ads that said the piano needed tuning. If the sellers haven't bothered to do that before putting the piano up for sale, it's likely not a piano you'd be happy with, especially if you're used to a recent Steinway.

In the end I found a nice piano through a technician's recommendation. I'd suggest asking around there, because they know the condition of the pianos and may hear about them before they get advertised.

BTW, I've seen some promising-sounding pianos advertised in Rochester NY. I wouldn't be surprised if you can find a good deal around there.

A trip to NYC would be a extraordinary value to you. It would allow you to test drive dozens of potential candidates in a couple of days.

Even if you didn't purchase one during the visit, the education alone would help you make a wise decision.

I've purchased two used grand pianos in my lifetime... one was a mediocre Japanese grand and the other (the one I have now) is an older, professional quality Japanese grand. I initially saw both of them advertized at auction on eBay. I didn’t bid on either of them on eBay (and neither did anyone else) but I did make contact with the sellers and made arrangements to look at the pianos after the auction ended. Both were located close enough for me to drive a few hours to look at them. After looking at the piano(s), I made the owner an offer and it went from there.

There are some odd-balls, lunatics, weirdoes, and con-artist who advertize on Craigslist and eBay, but you have to rely on your intuition and your gut feelings to weed them out. Some good clues in doing that have been mentioned already…

You mentioned “champagne taste on beer money”… that is a saying I’ve heard my mother say many times.

Since that is the case, you will likely get a better deal with a private seller, but there are more risks and effort involved. Of course, I wouldn't rule out visiting the dealers, but they are in business to make money (and there is nothing wrong with that...).

Good luck and happy shopping!!!

Rick

That sounds like the inventory of only one Steinway dealer. A Steinway dealership is a fine place to shop, but it will not give you anything close to an adequate representation of what's available these days in lower-priced pianos. If you really want to explore that end of things, you'll need to do much more.



Pianomart listings tend to have fewer beat-up old pianos than craigslist. That's true of ads placed here on Piano World as well. The odds of finding a well-cared for used piano are a little better.



Rebuilds done by the Steinway company of fancy case vintage Steinways can be close or equal in price to new Steinways in plain-Jane cases. That end of the market is not about champagne taste on a beer budget.

An independent rebuilder may have something closer to beer that tastes like champagne, particularly if he's rebuilt on spec a vintage piano that doesn't have the Steinway name. There are a lot of rebuuilders in New York state and upper Jersey who are not in crowded cities. There's one that advertises in the right column here. Most of these rebuilders have web sites that list their inventory. All have telephones. Get recommendations on rebuilders and choose one who gets high marks for quality work and has an interesting inventory. Then arrange a visit. You can probably learn more from visiting a responsible professional rebuilder and checking out his pianos than you can learn from 20 follow-ups to Craigslist ads.

Possibilities for champagne on a moderate wine budget would include Knabe, Masson & Hamlin, and Chickering. Possibilities on a beer budget would include Sohmer, Baldwin, and Conover. Most rebuilders would rather rebuild a Steinway than any of these because that's where the money is, but they do undertake rebuilding other brands and the result can be a piano of equal quality with a lower asking price.

Start by getting recommendations thgouh, here or elsewhere. "Rebuild" is a very loosely defined term and some in the trade exploit that fact.

There is a 1999 East Indian Rosewood Steinway L floating around for just under 40k

What is your budget?

Thanks for the suggestions. Sounds like a lot of good advice. I am not even sure what my eventual budget will be because it depends on how long it takes to find a piano that I can really get into. Even on a beer budget, some beers taste better than others. I think I would be able to go into the low to mid 20's if I have to, but less would be better. I originally was thinking of the 30's, but have changed my mind for now. I would prefer to stay in the teens even, but don't know if that is going to get me something I really will like. From the ads I have seen, it looks like there might be something in my range. I just meant that a brand-new Steinway or Mason-Hamlin or C. Bechstein is unthinkable at this time. I plan to buy a piano to keep for the rest of my life (which I hope will be another 25-30 years) so I intend to look until I am really happy with the piano I choose. I will not be upgrading or trading up or anything.

some?

What about something like a 10 year old Kawai 5"10? I could see you have a lot of driving to do if you are trying to sort through old Steinways.

I usually start by asking a few pointed questions via email. Then, if those are answered correctly, I bother to call the owners on the phone and ask more questions. If I'm still interested, then I'd visit and try the piano out thoroughly, and then hire a tech if I'm really considering making a purchase after all the other steps.

The questions that usually separate the "wheat from the chaff" for me via phone or email:
1. When was the last time this piano was serviced?
2. Who is the technician that services your piano?
3. Do you mind if I call the technician to ask about the condition of the instrument?
4. Do you mind if I hire my own technician to inspect the piano prior to purchase if I'm really serious about buying?

Boy, excellent ideas!! That sounds like the best first step. Hopefully I can save a few unnecessary trips. To the previous post about 5'10" Yamahas, I don't understand the post? Is he selling one? I am not actually for or against Yamahas. I would try one if it sounds promising, but I would prefer to go a little larger if I can.