Hi, I was choosing between the Korg Kronos 61 and the Yamaha Motif XF6.

I like the Motif's ability to record loops or motifs (I think they call them patterns) very easily and quickly and you can keep adding more motifs to make your song. I wonder if the Korg Kronos has the same feature. I could not find an answer to my question by searching on youtube. Thanks in advance for your help and Happy New Year.

PS. I will also appreciate any insight you might have comparing the 2 models and helping me in my decision.

Yeah its called Karma software ... and it's on the Kronos.
I own both and I must say the Kronos has some great sounds and features but its not a "mature" product.
It's build quality is suspect and of course the sound is very "Korg" (with the good and bad that entails)
Where the Motif really kills the Kronos is in its ability to function as a 16 track Firewire interface.

@Dr. Popper. Thanks for your quick reply. Until now, I am not sure what Karma is!! I initially thought that it is just an automatic arpeggiator but now you tell me that it is the technology in the KORG that would enable the user to create motifs. Do you know of any demo online that I can watch for this?

Quick question, I thought the RPPR was what you use on a KORG to create patterns and MOTIFs. So, while you program some RPPRs on the KORG sequencer, do you have to do one pattern at a time without the ability to listen to other loops or patterns that you already recorded in real time while you are recording a new one? Kind of the way I saw it being done on the MOTIF in demos? I hope my question is clear. Thanks in advance.

FYI, motif is getting karma 3 via PC/Mac.

Yeah you can listen to other previously done parts while recording a new one, its a full featured sequencer.

Thanks a lot. That helps.

So, you would control that by pressing the remote control button on your Motif. The question is, how would you connect your Motif to the computer? Does it have to be via firewire (FW)? Cause I do not have that in my Macbook Air! Also is there anyway to use the 16 track interface using USB instead of FW? Thanks.

You can't do 16 tracks over USB has to be Firewire

It's worth mentioning that the 16 channel Firewire (FW16e) interface is only an option on the Motif, it's not standard equipment. It costs about $4-500 to buy it. The only reason you'd want it is if you tend to record your keyboard parts into the internal sequencer and you want an easy way of dumping them all into your computer DAW in one hit. For me, it's not really a deal breaker. On the Kronos you can still send outputs to your computer, but you'd have to do it in more than one pass.

It's also important to distinguish the Motif FW16e interface from a normal 16-channel interface. The Motif interface is only for transferring tracks recorded in the Motif sequencer. It doesn't have 16 analog inputs like a normal audio interface.

So how would you connect to Karma Motif? How would you control that?

Karma for the Motif will not be onboard like the Kronos. You will have to be using a PC or Mac, however, it will be newest Karma 3 engine, which the Kronos does not have.

Will you connect to the PC or mac using USB or FW?

No you can record 16 audio tracks on the Motif and dump them to the DAW if you want. It doesn't have to be tracks on the sequencer it can be Audio as well.

For Karma 3 either works.

Thanks

I realise that, and nothing I wrote actually contradicts what you say there. The point I was making was that it isn't the same as having a normal 16 channel audio interface. To most people "16Track-FW interface" means having the capability of 16 simultaneous analog audio inputs to record with directly into your PC DAW. With the Motif FW interface, you are constrained by having to record single tracks into the Motif sequencer first, then transfer tracks later via the Motif interface - so it's more of a data interface than an audio interface. The Yamaha FW interface is nothing more than a convenient way to move all your sequencer tracks at once - whether they be audio or MIDI, or rendered MIDI (audio version of the Motif's internal sounds). For a lot of people, that's only semi useful because many people will want to record audio tracks directly into their DAW anyway. The main use of the Motif interface if being able to convert your sequenced tracks into audio tracks and then send them into your DAW for mixdown. It is possible to do this with the Kronos and a normal audio interface - your are limited by the 4 bus sends though. It's tiresome to do it that way if you have many tracks, which you have to manually arrange in your DAW.

Whether you would want to spend the money on the Motif FW interface really comes down to how you like to produce your music. If you always start with your keyboard sequencer and internal sounds, and you use a lot of track, it may well be worth it. If you tend to use just a few sequencer tracks or you like to record straight into your DAW, it's debatable whether you'd spend the money on the interface or whether you'f prefer to get a Motif over a Kronos for pure that reason. Personally, I'd always go with whatever sounds better first, and then deal with the production headaches second. ie. if I really preferred the Kronos sounds, I wouldn't get a Motif just because it made exporting tracks easier.

I see what your saying there Ando ... the motif really only has the two inputs for audio and would probably mostly be used for putting in a guide vocal on a demo or something and it really couldn't be used to record a band situation like a normal 16 track AI. That said the Motif's DAW integration software, Editor, VST client and Ipad client do offer enormous benefits over the Kronos for the DAW user. I own them both and I must admit I've hardly used the Kronos except for specific things while I use the Motif nearly every day. It's as much a part of my desktop as a keyboard or mouse.

Fair enough - obviously you are one for whom the price is more than worth it. I keep changing my mind what is the best way to get my work flowing. I envy that you have found a method you can stick with!

That was very helpful. Thanks a lot

That is really useful for me to know as I will be using these features a lot, now the question for me is whether Yamaha is going to introduce a new MOTIF this NAMM 2012 so I think would wait for 2 weeks before getting a MOTIF XF (which I like a lot) right now. Thanks.

Yamaha is not introducing a new Motif at Namm but Karma 3 is released to the public then.

How sure are you? Cause if you are sure I will run to SamAsh right now if I can make it before 9:00 pm.

So other than Dr Popper, anybody voting for a new Yamaha MOTIF this NAMM 2012??

I hope they are not introducing a new Motif. I just got my XF two weeks ago and my return time will end before the NAMM show starts.

I love the XF Grand Piano sounds it makes through my Yamaha HS80M speakers. It is so good, between action and sound, that I forget I am playing a DP. Honest! I prefer the XF for everyday playing more so than my two acoustic pianos. The XF is always in tune, I can control the volume and beat songs to death. Once I've got the song down I go play my acoustic and I am in heaven. I have not even messed with the sound libraries yet that the XF pianos have to offer.

I am content... for now...

LOL !!!! What do you think ?
If Yamaha were releasing a new Motif I wouldn't be able to say anything about it and I've said quite a bit about it.

Thanks for the news Doc! I forgot you are in the know...

LOL! Fair enough :-)

Nah what they mean is telling me anything is a big no no ....